Middle East Conflict

Possibly worse. But Biden is, in my view facilitating murder and ethnic cleansing and as such has forfeited the right to remain in power.
Not possibly. Definitely much worse.

As much as I am furious with Biden’s handling of Netanyahu and co’s genocidal rampage, and agree it should be a disqualification from office, Trump would be much, much worse for all involved.

Wishing for Biden to lose the presidency at this point is wishing for the far-right in Israel (and in the US) to be given complete free rein to finish the job, with absolutely no hope of changing the US approach (likely for a very long time to come given Trump could end what is left of the American republic if he is reelected).
 


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Not possibly. Definitely much worse.

As much as I am furious with Biden’s handling of Netanyahu and co’s genocidal rampage, and agree it should be a disqualification from office, Trump would be much, much worse for all involved.

Wishing for Biden to lose the presidency at this point is wishing for the far-right in Israel (and in the US) to be given complete free rein to finish the job, with absolutely no hope of changing the US approach (likely for a very long time to come given Trump could end what is left of the American republic if he is reelected).
I know what you're saying. So maybe my desire would be Biden pops his clogs tomorrow, and Netanyahu too, the Dems choose a suitable candidate who then wipes the floor with Trump.
 
I know what you're saying. So maybe my desire would be Biden pops his clogs tomorrow, and Netanyahu too, the Dems choose a suitable candidate who then wipes the floor with Trump.
That would be the best scenario, I agree.

In my opinion, it would actually likely lead to a landslide win for the democrat, ironically, given it would energise the younger and independent vote that has begun to waiver on Biden (who may simply not vote, or vote for the No Labels candidate, boosting Trump’s prospects).

And, if it is a more progressive candidate, they will likely be much more oppositional to Netanyahu and the far-right coalition, meaning far more pressure on their ouster and a significant shift to operations in Gaza and the West Bank.
 
Not possibly. Definitely much worse.

As much as I am furious with Biden’s handling of Netanyahu and co’s genocidal rampage, and agree it should be a disqualification from office, Trump would be much, much worse for all involved.

Wishing for Biden to lose the presidency at this point is wishing for the far-right in Israel (and in the US) to be given complete free rein to finish the job, with absolutely no hope of changing the US approach (likely for a very long time to come given Trump could end what is left of the American republic if he is reelected).
This is a bit of a tricky one because Trump is one politician who is calling for Israel to end the conflict. His way of ending that conflict is how he differs from Palestinian supporters because he probably wants to do it in a way that doesn't harm Israel.

The only way to do that in reality is through negotiation and some solution for a state of Palestine which surely is actually the correct thing to do? Trump however will appease Israel in this by requiring that Hamas and any resistance are eliminated from the equation which guarantees Israel's security. Whether that is acceptable to the Palestinians is perhaps up for debate but it could end the conflict whereas now the status quo means it definitely isn't going to end.

It's really difficult but as it stands just look at the evidence. Biden has brought us to the brink of world war and he has failed to restrain the likes of Israel whilst the Middle East has never looked in more of a mess. These are people who are now almost openly saying that they will soon send your sons and daughters to war because of their mess.

This current political class are extremely dangerous and I honestly don't believe that Trump could be worse than that. Trump is worse in many other ways but he certainly isn't going to push the US towards open war with Russia or increase tensions even more in the Middle East which is the current trajectory.

Obviously Trump is not good news for Ukraine or the American war machine but that's another argument. Putting emotion aside we certainly should be very careful of what we're actually wishing for here. Either way, Americans largely do not care nor will not vote based upon the Palestinian issue anyway.
 
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It would be Biden is the lesser of Two evils. Trump would actively go on the record and practically state to Israel go fill your boots the more dead Palestinians the better. Whereas Genocide Joe just keeps sending the missiles over and trying to keep things quiet.
 
This is a bit of a tricky one because Trump is one politician who is calling for Israel to end the conflict. His way of ending that conflict is how he differs from Palestinian supporters because he probably wants to do it in a way that doesn't harm Israel.

The only way to do that in reality is through negotiation and some solution for a state of Palestine which surely is actually the correct thing to do? Trump however will appease Israel in this by requiring that Hamas and any resistance are eliminated from the equation which guarantees Israel's security. Whether that is acceptable to the Palestinians is perhaps up for debate but it could end the conflict whereas now the status quo means it definitely isn't going to end.

It's really difficult but as it stands just look at the evidence. Biden has brought us to the brink of world war and he has failed to restrain the likes of Israel whilst the Middle East has never looked in more of a mess. These are people who are now almost openly saying that they will soon send your sons and daughters to war because of their mess.

This current political class are extremely dangerous and I honestly don't believe that Trump could be worse than that. Trump is worst in many other ways but he certainly isn't going to push the US towards open war with Russia or increase tensions even more in the Middle East which is the current trajectory.

Obviously Trump is not good news for Ukraine or the American war machine but that's another argument. Putting emotion aside, we certainly should be very careful of what we're actually wishing for.
I disagree with most of what you have written.

First, you should not base any analysis on what Trump says, especially not when he is trying to get reelected, by hook or by crook (with the intent of destroying what is left of American republic to ensure his own safety and power).

You should base analysis on what Trump has actually done, which is cozy up with and empower the far right in the US, Israel, and elsewhere. He is extremely unlikely to break from that behaviour given the far right are the only force propping him up at the moment (and will be the way in which he wields power if he regains the presidency). He has continually, especially privately, supported Netanyahu as a “strong man” leader, primarily as a means of playing Israel and Saudi (and a few other countries in the region) off each other. He has no love for either Jews or Muslims, and especially not Palestinians, which he has derided several times.

He also believes in ‘might is right’ action, largely because that is what keeps him relevant and protected, and cares not about the plight of any marginalised or oppressed population. In fact, he has shown over and over again that he despises marginalised people. Nor does he care about genocide or apartheid; he would carry it out himself in a heartbeat if there was something to be gained for him personally and no consequences imposed on him for doing so.

He cares only about “loyalty” and who gives him the most deference and access to wealth. Both things Netanyahu will shower him with in an attempt to cling on to power (if he makes it that far).

Trump is not going to end the war, at least not in any way that is not horrific for the Palestinians (and likely other parties. He is also not going to support a two-state solution (which will never happen under the current Israeli government).

Second, I am not sure where your belief that Biden has brought us to the brink of world war has come from. Putin (and in many ways Trump) has been working to do that for several decades. Biden has been in power for less than 4 years and inherited Trump’s appeasement of Putin’s violent, expansionist actions, constantly contravening international law. All Biden has done whilst in office is help Ukraine and other now nervous sovereign nations to resist Putin’s murderous, megalomaniacal operations. To say Biden is responsible for Putin continually invading sovereign nations and carrying out terrorist operations in the US, UK, Germany, France, and many other countries is simply nonsensical.

Finally, to say that Trump could not be worse than the current political class ignores essentially all evidence from his term as president and after. He literally wants to be eviscerate the American democratic republic and install himself as a de facto dictator. You can say what you want about Biden, or Sunak, or Macron—and I have said quite a lot—but there is at least a means for removing them or influencing their behaviour, however difficult or ineffective at times. Trump wants to do away with any mechanism allowing for control, oversight, or influence over his power.

I genuinely do not understand how someone could think Trump would not be worse than the crop of leaders we have now, when his intention is to remove the system that allows for them to be changed.

It is strange that you infer that people in opposition of Trump (or Putin or Netanyahu, it seems) are operating on emotion, when a cold analysis of Trump’s actual deeds, revealed beliefs, and policy outcomes shows he is danger to societies everywhere, much less America, Israel, or Palestine.

But I think we have entered a discussion more relevant to the Trump thread than this one at this point.
 
So a British aid worker delivering food to the starving Palestinians was one of those Murdered by the Israeli's. Wonder if Sunak will hold the Israeli authorities culpable of his murder.
Netanyahu will probably say they were terrorists.it seems his get out card for mass murder.
 


Famine confirmed. [emoji736]

How anyone could support Netanyahu and the far-right government of Israel at this point is beyond understanding.

The far-right has been slowly destroying Isreal from within and Palestine from without. And, if no real internal force arises to force them out of power—and the US continues to enable their genocidal conquest of Gaza and the West Bank—they’ll finish the job.
 
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From reports I have seen there were 3 vehicles travelling 2km apart through Israeli controlled territory having cleared with the IDF times and the route. This was not an accident it was a deliberate strike which has served Netanyahu's purpose because the aid at sea has been turned back - thats why the **** was smirking when he was making his "apologetic" statement for TV.

Sorry to say it but 60 years of hard won diplomatic respect has been destroyed in 6 months. Mark my words there will be a retribution from the Arab world and Israel will find that pleas for help will fall upon deaf ears. You cannot destroy an ideology - thats why Germany has neo-Nazi's to this day - and Israel's actions means that the time when the nation can sleep easily at night has moved further into the future.
 
That would be the best scenario, I agree.

In my opinion, it would actually likely lead to a landslide win for the democrat, ironically, given it would energise the younger and independent vote that has begun to waiver on Biden (who may simply not vote, or vote for the No Labels candidate, boosting Trump’s prospects).

And, if it is a more progressive candidate, they will likely be much more oppositional to Netanyahu and the far-right coalition, meaning far more pressure on their ouster and a significant shift to operations in Gaza and the West Bank.
We obviously cannot get everything we want, this is a choice between two evils. There is a ray of light in that it is a long way to November. There will clearly be some changes before then: changes for the better we hope.
Biden did say that if Israel killed an American, there would be repercussions. Let’s hope he is true to his word.
 

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