The Liberal Democrats

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SkyBlueFlux

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Seems a bit strange to have a thread for the other political parties but not for these.

I know a lot of people hold them responsible for the Tories gaining power in 2010 - along with some of the consequences of that, such as tuition fee increases and various austerity policies.

Whether you believe them, there have been a couple of MRP polls recently that suggest they have a (very small) chance of becoming the opposition. I think I personally would rather have them in that seat than the Tories.

They, much like Labour, have had to change a lot since their complete collapse in 2015. Ed Davey seems like a genuine bloke who clearly is dealing with some very challenging life circumstances, his wife and son both being disabled. But then he was recently in the headlines for the wrong reasons:

www.bbc.com

Lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey fined for speeding

Sir Ed Davey paid a fine after being caught doing 73mph in a 60mph zone on the M1 motorway.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

The Lib Dems are also the only party so far to come out with a strong policy on social care which is an absolutely enormous issue the other two haven’t even mentioned.

When the biggest complaint about the two main parties is that their policy platforms aren’t differentiated enough it will be interesting to see how the Lib Dems position themselves as the historic centre ground party.

There are bits of the Lib Dem policy platform I really don’t like - mainly the proclivity for NIMBYism which is one of the reasons our country is in the state it’s in, especially with housing. But when the manifestos come out, nearly every election an objective read tends to show I agree with theirs the most. That doesn’t mean I vote for them though (and haven’t for a long time now).

Do people think they’ll do well? And is that because they’re benefiting from the anti-Tory protest vote? Or because they actually have something to offer?
 
I think the Lib-dems are playing a very good game so far in this campaign.
By focusing on the tory seats where they finished second, they could quite easily have between 60 - 80 MP's returned, which will be a strong base to grow from, especially as July 5th will be the start of a internal war within the self-servatives which promises to consign them to the dustbin of political history
 
KnaresboroughBlue said:
I really hope so. They suffer a lot from the electoral system we have though so it's unlikely they will ever be anything other than a potential coalition partner.
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One such poll that will give them hope:



Given the LibDem vote is highly concentrated this would likely mean 50-70 seats for them, but total civil war on the right between Tories and Reform could see them dip under that in a worst case scenario.

I have mixed feelings on it because while Labour having such a huge majority feels unhealthy (they’d effectively have the power of a war time government), I think LibDems being in opposition would help drag the national conversation away from the extremes and back to the centre ground. It might also force Labour into deploying some stronger left wing policy in response.
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
Seems a bit strange to have a thread for the other political parties but not for these.

I know a lot of people hold them responsible for the Tories gaining power in 2010 - along with some of the consequences of that, such as tuition fee increases and various austerity policies.
Click to expand...

There's an interesting "but for" analysis you can bring to bear in relation to the Lib Dems.

But for Nick Clegg's decision to buddy up to Cameron, there would have been no coalition government in 2010.

But for the austerity programme driven by the coalition government it is unlikely the same undercurrent of seething resentment would have built up over the years that followed.

But for Nick Clegg's abandoning the tuition fees pledge that he made, it is unlikely that the Lib Dems would have been decimated in 2015.

But for the coalition government and his assessment the Tories would not win an outright majority, It is unlikely that Cameron would have permitted a referendum on EU membership to be part of the tories' 2015 manifesto.

But for the inclusion of the referendum promise in the 2015 manifesto it is unlikely Brexit would have happened.

Given Nick Clegg's stance on Brexit, there is no little irony in the fact that you can, if you are so inclined, trace it back to him.
 
Chris in London said:
There's an interesting "but for" analysis you can bring to bear in relation to the Lib Dems.

But for Nick Clegg's decision to buddy up to Cameron, there would have been no coalition government in 2010.

But for the austerity programme driven by the coalition government it is unlikely the same undercurrent of seething resentment would have built up over the years that followed.

But for Nick Clegg's abandoning the tuition fees pledge that he made, it is unlikely that the Lib Dems would have been decimated in 2015.

But for the coalition government and his assessment the Tories would not win an outright majority, It is unlikely that Cameron would have permitted a referendum on EU membership to be part of the tories' 2015 manifesto.

But for the inclusion of the referendum promise in the 2015 manifesto it is unlikely Brexit would have happened.

Given Nick Clegg's stance on Brexit, there is no little irony in the fact that you can, if you are so inclined, trace it back to him.
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly they basically facilitated the 2019 election at the point when we were within touching distance of a parliamentary majority for a second referendum.
 
Chris in London said:
There's an interesting "but for" analysis you can bring to bear in relation to the Lib Dems.

But for Nick Clegg's decision to buddy up to Cameron, there would have been no coalition government in 2010.

But for the austerity programme driven by the coalition government it is unlikely the same undercurrent of seething resentment would have built up over the years that followed.

But for Nick Clegg's abandoning the tuition fees pledge that he made, it is unlikely that the Lib Dems would have been decimated in 2015.

But for the coalition government and his assessment the Tories would not win an outright majority, It is unlikely that Cameron would have permitted a referendum on EU membership to be part of the tories' 2015 manifesto.

But for the inclusion of the referendum promise in the 2015 manifesto it is unlikely Brexit would have happened.

Given Nick Clegg's stance on Brexit, there is no little irony in the fact that you can, if you are so inclined, trace it back to him.
Click to expand...

Going to take more than one lifetime to get over the consequences of that scumbags choices. Entirely fitting that having screwed over a country he went on to shill for a company seemingly bent on causing chaos at a global level. In some ways he's more despicable than Dodgy Dave.

In fairness Ed Davey seems the polar opposite of Clegg and the most relatable of the main party leaders currently at large.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
If I remember correctly they basically facilitated the 2019 election at the point when we were within touching distance of a parliamentary majority for a second referendum.
Click to expand...

I think Jo Swinson just compounded the problems that started under Nick Clegg, she lacked experience and the result was short-term extreme positions overriding more sensible long-term strategy.

I think Ed has brought the party back to its roots of being the “sensible middle road”. I know that won’t be enough for many who quite rightly feel their trust in the LibDems has been irreparably compromised.

I’m not the type to hold that kind of entrenched view, 5 years is a long time in politics and it feels more constructive to judge a party based on what it is today rather than some idea of what it has been in the past.
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
I think Jo Swinson just compounded the problems that started under Nick Clegg, she lacked experience and the result was short-term extreme positions overriding more sensible long-term strategy.

I think Ed has brought the party back to its roots of being the “sensible middle road”. I know that won’t be enough for many who quite rightly feel their trust in the LibDems has been irreparably compromised.

I’m not the type to hold that kind of entrenched view, 5 years is a long time in politics and it feels more constructive to judge a party based on what it is today rather than some idea of what it has been in the past.
Click to expand...
Do you know, I should vote Lib Dem. I'm hugely socially liberal and I'm very much a political centrist. But i've only voted for them once years ago and I won't do again this time. It's sad really that people like me feel that way and that's because of our policial system. If it was proportional representation I would seriously consider a vote for them and I would certainly have voted for them in the last election.

I feel genuinely sorry for the LibDems as they simply can't get through to people like me. I'm far too entrenched in hatred of the incumbents and a desire for change.
 
mexico1970 said:
Healthy fags they were, if you wanted to get really fit though you went full menthol :)
Click to expand...
Before I managed to give up fags, I found it really easy, only 47 failed attempts, I started smoking Silk Cut, well I am silk cut so it seemed destined. They then brought out Silk Cut Low. More expensive and you also heeded a poltise to get a draw.

I never liked Triathlons before the Silk Cut, and to be fair I still don’t. Fucking pointless if you ask me.
 
Blue and true said:
I'm leaning towards voting for them. My only concern is that, on the balance of probability, it's a wasted vote. It would be refreshing to see them do well, and we need to move away from this two-party system.
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I can assure you if you vote for them it will not change a bloody thing, so if you want to just do it. Don't give your support to a party you agree with less. No need really.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
Do you know, I should vote Lib Dem. I'm hugely socially liberal and I'm very much a political centrist. But i've only voted for them once years ago and I won't do again this time. It's sad really that people like me feel that way and that's because of our policial system. If it was proportional representation I would seriously consider a vote for them and I would certainly have voted for them in the last election.

I feel genuinely sorry for the LibDems as they simply can't get through to people like me. I'm far too entrenched in hatred of the incumbents and a desire for change.
Click to expand...

Christ sake another one.
 
Chris in London said:
There's an interesting "but for" analysis you can bring to bear in relation to the Lib Dems.

But for Nick Clegg's decision to buddy up to Cameron, there would have been no coalition government in 2010.

But for the austerity programme driven by the coalition government it is unlikely the same undercurrent of seething resentment would have built up over the years that followed.

But for Nick Clegg's abandoning the tuition fees pledge that he made, it is unlikely that the Lib Dems would have been decimated in 2015.

But for the coalition government and his assessment the Tories would not win an outright majority, It is unlikely that Cameron would have permitted a referendum on EU membership to be part of the tories' 2015 manifesto.

But for the inclusion of the referendum promise in the 2015 manifesto it is unlikely Brexit would have happened.

Given Nick Clegg's stance on Brexit, there is no little irony in the fact that you can, if you are so inclined, trace it back to him.
Click to expand...
I see it exactly the same way. I found a lot of lib dem policy attractive during the 90s and early 2000s, but when they got their chances to drive a hard bargain or at least hold the Tories to account in coalition they shit themselves and got shown up as tory-lite wank puffins.
Deservedly back in the political wilderness
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I see it exactly the same way. I found a lot of lib dem policy attractive during the 90s and early 2000s, but when they got their chances to drive a hard bargain or at least hold the Tories to account in coalition they shit themselves and got shown up as tory-lite wank puffins.
Deservedly back in the political wilderness
Click to expand...
Strange how these Tory-lite wank puffins keep getting a shot at power inbetween Tory governments isn't it.
 
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