Phil - Scapegoats and witch hunts

Cellarite said:
Do you honestly believe that Southgate's selection is to satisfy Arsenal, United and Liverpool fans through clickbait, rather than the fact that he's simply incompetent? Why wouldn't he completely leave Foden out if that were the case?
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Have to blame someone
 
I’d be gobsmacked if Phil was benched tomorrow, he had a quiet game by his standards but him and Bellingham are both awesome players and should be able to perform together and destroy teams along with the other threats going forward. Bellingham always seems to demand the ball to be fair, but I don’t it as an ‘us and them’ situation simply because Foden didn’t get the ball played to him. The Denmark game is a chance to shine like we know he can and probably will.
 
BlueRockape said:
Have to blame someone
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This gets better. So he doesn't pick his best team to satisfy the red shirt fans, knows that the team he picks won't win, so puts a City player in the team out of position so he has someone to blame when his team loses?

The papers must be paying him a shit load on the side to convince him not to just pick his best team and go for it.

Some of our fan base are becoming scouse-esque in their paranoia.
 
Cellarite said:
This gets better. So he doesn't pick his best team to satisfy the red shirt fans, knows that the team he picks won't win, so puts a City player in the team out of position so he has someone to blame when his team loses?

The papers must be paying him a shit load on the side to convince him not to just pick his best team and go for it.

Some of our fan base are becoming scouse-esque in their paranoia.
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Crackers, isn’t it?

In fairness to said fans on the socials there aren’t many blaming Foden at all. It is all negative comments toward Southgate for his positioning of the players.

Also, isn’t scapegoat a term for when something completely fucks up and someone has to take the blame? Forgive me if I was in an alternate dimension but didn’t England win that game?!
 
Cellarite said:
This gets better. So he doesn't pick his best team to satisfy the red shirt fans, knows that the team he picks won't win, so puts a City player in the team out of position so he has someone to blame when his team loses?

The papers must be paying him a shit load on the side to convince him not to just pick his best team and go for it.

Some of our fan base are becoming scouse-esque in their paranoia.
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I don't get the conspiracy theory myself, this one went waaaaay over my head. Southgate deliberately sabotaging Phil's career? Weird take by some here
 
Jogon 127 said:
I’d be gobsmacked if Phil was benched tomorrow, he had a quiet game by his standards but him and Bellingham are both awesome players and should be able to perform together and destroy teams along with the other threats going forward. Bellingham always seems to demand the ball to be fair, but I don’t it as an ‘us and them’ situation simply because Foden didn’t get the ball played to him. The Denmark game is a chance to shine like we know he can and probably will.
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I think having that ‘wandering ‘ role in the middle allows him to be everywhere but unfortunately it makes the formation weaker (imo) and less cohesive as evidenced by the game on Sunday…..Bellingham had a good 20 mins but then faded and I saw him play at LB, LM, CM, AM throughout that second half as his energy levels dropped.

A good player but not the messiah the media think he is. I would prefer waistcoat play Bellingham in the 10 and swap him for Phil on 50 or 60 minutes…either that or move Bellingham to play along with rice and Phil ahead of them…allowing him and Phil to interchange as needed….he never will though because he’s not a good enough manager to work out how to play them both
 
I scratch my head when I read the headlines around Phil.
He was voted the Player of the Year by reporters yet they are quick to blame him if England don't smash a team.
The premier league, English trophies, European trophies and club world cup games all add up. Phil played 56 games last season (including England games), Jude played 45 in total and I'm sure this has an effect on players.
Phil is the best player in the Premier League last season because he played in a position where he can do his best damage. He didn't play out of position (like he did for England) so therefore people should wait until he plays in his natural position and then the comparisons can be made.
 
Cellarite said:
Do you honestly believe that Southgate's selection is to satisfy Arsenal, United and Liverpool fans through clickbait, rather than the fact that he's simply incompetent? Why wouldn't he completely leave Foden out if that were the case?
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No I dont, because I didnt say that. I said he appeases the media. The media, on the whole, hate City/love the red clubs. Over the years the media have demanded various players are taken to these championships, Beckham, Mainoo, Gazza, TAA as a midfielder.

Do we all agree with the media that utd players and liverpool players are the best in the country right now? Shaw? Rashford? Mainoo? Maguire? TAA is "The best passer in the world"? No, so what would happen if Southgate didnt take them? He would get hated, the media would crucify him.
There are much better players at lesser well media-supported clubs that get totally ignored.
 
Cellarite said:
This gets better. So he doesn't pick his best team to satisfy the red shirt fans, knows that the team he picks won't win, so puts a City player in the team out of position so he has someone to blame when his team loses?

The papers must be paying him a shit load on the side to convince him not to just pick his best team and go for it.

Some of our fan base are becoming scouse-esque in their paranoia.
Click to expand...
Maybe I should have put ;) after the post : )
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
No I dont, because I didnt say that. I said he appeases the media. The media, on the whole, hate City/love the red clubs. Over the years the media have demanded various players are taken to these championships, Beckham, Mainoo, Gazza, TAA as a midfielder.

Do we all agree with the media that utd players and liverpool players are the best in the country right now? Shaw? Rashford? Mainoo? Maguire? TAA is "The best passer in the world"? No, so what would happen if Southgate didnt take them? He would get hated, the media would crucify him.
There are much better players at lesser well media-supported clubs that get totally ignored.
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Which tournament would you have left Gascoigne out of? Italia 90 or Euro 96? He didn't go to Euro 92, we didn't qualify for USA 94 and he was dropped from France 98.

Show me where the media report Rashford and Maguire to be the best in the country. And - if you haven't noticed, neither Rashford nor Maguire have gone to the tournament.

I haven't seen a single demand for TAA to be played in midfield. Do you have any examples of this?

Your examples are quite frankly piss poor. You've used Gazza as one when he was arguably England's best player in the only two tournaments he went to and stated that "the media would crucify" Southgate for leaving two players out who he actually has left out.
 
Cellarite said:
Which tournament would you have left Gascoigne out of? Italia 90 or Euro 96? He didn't go to Euro 92, we didn't qualify for USA 94 and he was dropped from France 98.

Show me where the media report Rashford and Maguire to be the best in the country. And - if you haven't noticed, neither Rashford nor Maguire have gone to the tournament.

I haven't seen a single demand for TAA to be played in midfield. Do you have any examples of this?

Your examples are quite frankly piss poor. You've used Gazza as one when he was arguably England's best player in the only two tournaments he went to and stated that "the media would crucify" Southgate for leaving two players out who he actually has left out.
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Got to be on the wind up. Gazza ffs - one of England’s best players both of that era and perhaps ever. And as you say, two rags he’s listed aren’t even in the squad.
 
Fernster said:
I scratch my head when I read the headlines around Phil.
He was voted the Player of the Year by reporters yet they are quick to blame him if England don't smash a team.
The premier league, English trophies, European trophies and club world cup games all add up. Phil played 56 games last season (including England games), Jude played 45 in total and I'm sure this has an effect on players.
Phil is the best player in the Premier League last season because he played in a position where he can do his best damage. He didn't play out of position (like he did for England) so therefore people should wait until he plays in his natural position and then the comparisons can be made.
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Phil hasn’t been great in his last few outings - he was below par in the cup final. He looks a bit mentally jaded though physically still running around a lot looking for the ball. Form is temporary, class is permanent. Southgate will keep playing him and he’ll come good. Bellingham is a superb player, even though many on here don’t like him because he chose Madrid over us - and he does seem to have a huge ego but some of the hate on here - and the paranoia over Phil, is way, way over the top.
 
Dont think anybody can call Bellingham a great or superb player yet, good alright but thats about it. Yet to see him really change or take hold of a vital game even against City you would hardly notice he was there. Lets see how good he is when England face the top quality teams, personally am delighted City did not get him as he is overrated and very unlikeable, total opposite to Phil Foden.
 
DenisLawBackHeel74 said:
I think having that ‘wandering ‘ role in the middle allows him to be everywhere but unfortunately it makes the formation weaker (imo) and less cohesive as evidenced by the game on Sunday…..Bellingham had a good 20 mins but then faded and I saw him play at LB, LM, CM, AM throughout that second half as his energy levels dropped.

A good player but not the messiah the media think he is. I would prefer waistcoat play Bellingham in the 10 and swap him for Phil on 50 or 60 minutes…either that or move Bellingham to play along with rice and Phil ahead of them…allowing him and Phil to interchange as needed….he never will though because he’s not a good enough manager to work out how to play them both
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I just think it makes far more sense to put Foden and as the "10" and Bellingham as the "8" because Bellingham wanders around a lot anyway and he basically played that position for Dortmund. The only reason he's a 10 is because he played there for Madrid for a bit and had a purple patch but you can still play as the 8 and score plenty of goals from midfield by getting into the box, people like Frank Lampard made a career out of that.

Literally the only reason Bellingham is occupying that position has because Ancelotti played him there, so Southgate thinks he has to, but Bellingham likely won't play that position for Madrid next season probably with the arrival of mbappe, there's going to be some shifting around in those positions to accommodate the forward line. Bellingham will almost certainly drop back to a deeper position.

anyway even if you want to make a comparison of Foden and Bellingham in that position, Foden scored more goals and created more goals last season in all competitions than Bellingham, so it's not like you can even use statistics to justify Phil not playing there. I think Southgate is too influenced by PR machines.

play Phil central, Bellingham bridging the gap between him and Rice. Its so obvious. You get the best out of Phil and I don't think you get any less out of Bellingham
 
Cellarite said:
Which tournament would you have left Gascoigne out of? Italia 90 or Euro 96? He didn't go to Euro 92, we didn't qualify for USA 94 and he was dropped from France 98.

Show me where the media report Rashford and Maguire to be the best in the country. And - if you haven't noticed, neither Rashford nor Maguire have gone to the tournament.

I haven't seen a single demand for TAA to be played in midfield. Do you have any examples of this?

Your examples are quite frankly piss poor. You've used Gazza as one when he was arguably England's best player in the only two tournaments he went to and stated that "the media would crucify" Southgate for leaving two players out who he actually has left out.
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Hoddle left Gazza out and got crucified. Same with Beckham, media campaign to get him included Then he got us knocked out of the WC.

Rashford has been part of the England setup for years, Maguire too would have been there - You think they're both good enough over the last few years? They deserve it over other players in the PL who dont play for utd? Why are mid table utd having more to do with the england setup than say Brighton players? If you think that isnt media and pundit influence then you are nieve.

TAA in midfield has been a thing City did for years, lfc do it and its revolutionary, their fans, our pundits have been talking about it on and off since then. You not noticed that? Where do you think Southgate got the idea from ?

And to highlight it, why does someone like Miley not get into the squad above Mainoo? I mean their stats show he's been better but southgate took him? I can only think that its media influence.

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I am convinced the media has a great deal to do with selecting who goes, who even plays.
 
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LangleyBlue1970 said:
Got to be on the wind up. Gazza ffs - one of England’s best players both of that era and perhaps ever. And as you say, two rags he’s listed aren’t even in the squad.
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No not a wind up. And it does need people to meet me half way which will never happen I know, but media influence over team and squad selection is a thing. The media hate City. Foden failure sells. Simple as. No conspiracy,. just the way things go.
 
Not sure about all this noise about him being played on the left. For most of our games, he DID play on the left.


I imagine it's more to do with the fact that international football is much more direct. I honestly don't think he'll thrive in an England setup regardless of where he plays. Don't think it's his fault, just unrealistic expectations. He's better in a team that is possession based.
 
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