US Politics Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
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abu13 said:
Genuine question, I wonder if the opinion on Gun control in the US will change following these events.

I just can't get my head around their views on guns.
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They'll just go with "thoughts and prayers" for the victims, and claim that this would never have happened if only every Trump attendee were armed with automatic weapons.
 
Kinkladze 1 said:
No one’s taken me up yet and offered to explain exactly what Trump has done that makes him a Nazi…. Shock. I’ll wait then.
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'Trump was the first presidential candidate to say that he would reject the vote tally if he did not win the election, the first in more than a hundred years to urge his followers to physically beat his opponent, the first to suggest (twice) that his opponent should be murdered, the first to suggest as a major campaign theme that his opponent should be imprisoned, and the first to communicate internet memes from fascists. As a president, he expressed his admiration for dictators around the world.'

- Yale historian Tim Snyder on page 276 of this publication:

1720952057941.png

In the above paragraph, Snyder is probably referring to the time Trump warned at a rally that if Hillary Clinton were elected and got to appoint a tiebreaking Supreme Court justice that there was "nothing you can do, folks,” adding obliquely, "Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”

See here for more on that:

www.nytimes.com

Donald Trump Suggests ‘Second Amendment People’ Could Act Against Hillary Clinton (Published 2016)

Mr. Trump, in emphasizing gun issues and the Supreme Court during a speech, issued what some saw as a threat to Mrs. Clinton.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Been a while since I read Snyder's book but - as with any academic publication - the other points he makes are meticulously footnoted and referenced to his source material.

Just to be clear, I am not exulting in the fact that Trump was shot at nor lamenting the fact that that the attempt was unsuccessful. Rather, I would condemn this incident in the same way that I would the murders of Jo Cox, the Polish mayor of Gdańsk Pawel Adamowicz, and the mayor of the German city of Kassel, Walter Lübcke, who were all killed by far-right terrorists.

I also don't think Trump is a Nazi, though as you can see, he does sail close to the wind at times.

Instead I would categorise Trump as belonging to the populist radical right rather than the extreme right (as represented by parties like, for example, Greece's Golden Dawn (XA) and L'SNS aka People's Party Our Slovakia).

In doing so, I am following the distinction made by Cas Mudde in this book:

1720953106146.png

See here for a brief explanation of that distinction:

politicalquarterly.org.uk

Review: The Far Right Today, by Cas Mudde

The thrust of Cas Mudde's book explains how ‘the far right in general, and the populist radical right in particular’ has become normalised in the mainstream.
politicalquarterly.org.uk politicalquarterly.org.uk
 
ZenHalfTimeCrock said:
'Trump was the first presidential candidate to say that he would reject the vote tally if he did not win the election, the first in more than a hundred years to urge his followers to physically beat his opponent, the first to suggest (twice) that his opponent should be murdered, the first to suggest as a major campaign theme that his opponent should be imprisoned, and the first to communicate internet memes from fascists. As a president, he expressed his admiration for dictators around the world.'

- Yale historian Tim Snyder on page 276 of this publication:

View attachment 125282

In the above paragraph, Snyder is probably referring to the time Trump warned at a rally that if Hillary Clinton were elected and got to appoint a tiebreaking Supreme Court justice that there was "nothing you can do, folks,” adding obliquely, "Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”

See here for more on that:

www.nytimes.com

Donald Trump Suggests ‘Second Amendment People’ Could Act Against Hillary Clinton (Published 2016)

Mr. Trump, in emphasizing gun issues and the Supreme Court during a speech, issued what some saw as a threat to Mrs. Clinton.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Been a while since I read Snyder's book but - as with any academic publication - the other points he makes are meticulously footnoted and referenced to his source material.

Just to be clear, I am not exulting in the fact that Trump was shot at nor lamenting the fact that that the attempt was unsuccessful. Rather, I would condemn this incident in the same way that I would the murders of Jo Cox, the Polish mayor of Gdańsk Pawel Adamowicz, and the mayor of the German city of Kassel, Walter Lübcke, who were all killed by far-right terrorists.

I also don't think Trump is a Nazi, though as you can see, he does sail close to the wind at times.

Instead I would categorise Trump as belonging to the populist radical right rather than the extreme right (as represented by parties like, for example, Greece's Golden Dawn (XA) and L'SNS aka People's Party Our Slovakia).

In doing so, I am following the distinction made by Cas Mudde in this book:

View attachment 125286

See here for a brief explanation of that distinction:

politicalquarterly.org.uk

Review: The Far Right Today, by Cas Mudde

The thrust of Cas Mudde's book explains how ‘the far right in general, and the populist radical right in particular’ has become normalised in the mainstream.
politicalquarterly.org.uk politicalquarterly.org.uk
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Thanks for the comprehensive reply. As you say, it shows he is a lot of things but a Nazi ain’t one.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
He is the sick one. The extremists exist on both sides. He mocked attempts on democrats lives. The left mock attempts on his. There is no difference.
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Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Indeed there isn't, and there's the problem
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No one should be inciting, calling for, carrying out, or mocking political violence, all right-minded people agree there.

But do you agree that Trump and his MAGA movement are currently a greater threat to democracy, civil liberties, and the world than Biden and the Democratic Party?
 
Does everyone really agree that that is the election tied up for Trump now? How is that going to pan out? More republicans voting for Trump, fewer democrats voting for Biden (or whoever)?

Still four months to go, much can change, no?
 
halfcenturyup said:
Does everyone really agree that that is the election tied up for Trump now? How is that going to pan out? More republicans voting for Trump, fewer democrats voting for Biden (or whoever)?

Still four months to go, much can change, no?
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It was tied up after the TV debate. And it won’t change unless Biden stands down.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Possibly, but what has changed after the shooting, with "everybody" saying "That's it now". Not sure I am getting it, other than as a knee-jerk reaction.
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I think it is far from over.

But this will lead to quite a few shifts, most unfortunately aiding Trump and his MAGA movement, which is what I think most are alluding to, rather than the election actually being already won by him.
 
SebastianBlue said:
No one should be inciting, calling for, carrying out, or mocking political violence, all right-minded people agree there.

But do you agree that Trump and his MAGA movement are currently a greater threat to democracy, civil liberties, and the world than Biden and the Democratic Party?
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Having seen the ease with which people accept the intent of this act I do indeed Sebastian, find myself chuckling wrily.

"So it WAS both sides after all!"

Of course it fucking was.

Neo-Marxist Social Justice thought said "take control of the words and the minds, this is a battle for a historically justified cause - a war"

How do we differentiate that from the Gingrich-Era republican mindset of Total Political War to preserve their idea of America.

One is fair! The other isn't?

You can't be serious.

Both. Sides.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Possibly, but what has changed after the shooting, with "everybody" saying "That's it now". Not sure I am getting it, other than as a knee-jerk reaction.
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Agree. And what affect will it have on him. He's been going nuts for a wile now. He's had part of his ear shot off by one of his own fans. How is he going to cope mentally.
 
Kinkladze 1 said:
Yep, still no link with the Nazis providenced anywhere. Keep trying.
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Maybe you missed the sentence that began with this (I wasn't disagreeing with you):

'I also don't think Trump is a Nazi....'

The Nazis were anti-democratic. Trump at least pays some kind of lip service to democracy (though his promotion of the baseless 'Big Lie' conspiracy theory following the 2020 election suggests that his relationship with that system is tenuous to say the least).

Also, populists like Trump imagine that they are expressing the will of the people.

Contrastingly, Nazis/fascists are authoritarians who don't trust the vox populi.
 
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