Racism in Football

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

I can confirm this on a micro level. My daughter has gone to Spain twice to play in an international football tournament. She's had a couple of black players on her teams. These girls have gotten absolutely twatted on a few occasions, outside normal game play, by players on other teams, Spanish teams, and the referees in every instance turned a blind eye.

Could it be merely because the girls on my daughter's team aren't Spanish? Perhaps. However, I've read that is can be difficult for black players in La Liga. I suppose I subscribe to the girls being black made them something more of a target and not being Spanish didn't help them.

Look up the incidents of Nico Williams at Atletico Madrid and then look up the Moise Kean incident at Cagliari and how his teams captain and captain of the national side blamed Kean instead.

Nico and Kean are Spanish and Italian respectively, so no, you're wrong, it has nothing to do with the flag they play for and everything to do with their physical appearance. Let's not forget Balotelli had a lot of this and lately it seems to be creeping into German football, Ozil came close to calling out the names of a few players but didn't want to kick the hornets nest but recently the comments from a certain German player might have proven Ozil right.

 

[LangleyBlue1970]

He looks too smart to have got involved, but I hope Alvarez didn’t join in with that shite.

 

[domalino]

Look up the incidents of Nico Williams at Atletico Madrid and then look up the Moise Kean incident at Cagliari and how his teams captain and captain of the national side blamed Kean instead.

Nico and Kean are Spanish and Italian respectively, so no, you're wrong, it has nothing to do with the flag they play for and everything to do with their physical appearance. Let's not forget Balotelli had a lot of this and lately it seems to be creeping into German football, Ozil came close to calling out the names of a few players but didn't want to kick the hornets nest but recently the comments from a certain German player might have proven Ozil right.

Toni Kroos is a massive prick. Didn’t need his recent comments to confirm it, when Ozil and Gundogan got racist abuse he said “Ozil very well knows there’s no racism in the DFB” despite there being plenty of evidence and reports from immigrant background players at all levels of the pyramid saying it was true.

 

[Crooked_rain]

He looks too smart to have got involved, but I hope Alvarez didn’t join in with that shite.

People are posting videos of Alvarez sat next to him on the bus and singing. There's no evidence he sang that part of the song as Fernandez cut off the video before they do.

In fact there's no literal evidence of Fernandez singing those lines because he was fully aware to stop the video before they do, it's just that they had already started the song and people know what the next lines are. Fernandes did apologize for it, which means they were singing the full song even after the video was cut. He couldn't really lie about it and say they stopped the song after he cut the video before it got to the racist part, because it was obvious that they did continue the song, because why would they only sing part of the song? At least he was sensible enough not to try to lie his way out of it, which he could have attempted to considering he cut off the video before that part, but nobody would believe it.

So you can make your own mind up whether you think Alvarez also joined in. He was certainly singing songs with them on the bus though.

 

[LangleyBlue1970]

People are posting videos of Alvarez sat next to him on the bus and singing. There's no evidence he sang that part of the song as Fernandez cut off the video before they do.

In fact there's no literal evidence of Fernandez singing those lines because he was fully aware to stop the video before they do, it's just that they had already started the song and people know what the next lines are. Fernandes did apologize for it, which means they were singing the full song even after the video was cut. He couldn't really lie about it and say they stopped the song after he cut the video before it got to the racist part, because it was obvious that they did continue the song, because why would they only sing part of the song? At least he was sensible enough not to try to lie his way out of it, which he could have attempted to considering he cut off the video before that part, but nobody would believe it.

So you can make your own mind up whether you think Alvarez also joined in. He was certainly singing songs with them on the bus though.

I hadn’t seen that video. Pretty damning really for the lot of them. There is no way they stopped singing.

This is the social media generation of footballers not using their brains. Someone said earlier in the thread about why all of a sudden different nations are singing about other nations. That’s why, the social media generation.

 

[Crooked_rain]

I hadn’t seen that video. Pretty damning really for the lot of them. There is no way they stopped singing.

This is the social media generation of footballers not using their brains. Someone said earlier in the thread about why all of a sudden different nations are singing about other nations. That’s why, the social media generation.

Social media is it dangerous tool in the wrong hands and exposes a lot of people. Tie that in with the fact a lot of footballers are basically as thick as mince and this is the kind of thing you're going to get more often.

And if I was to take my city tinted specs off right now and if that was Mac Allister sat next to him instead of Alvarez, I think I would be assuming he was also caught up in the whole songs with them, but who can say for sure?

 

[domalino]

And this is exactly the kinds of reason people like Zaha weren't keen on the taking the knee gesture at the time. It's meaningless without action.

You're mistaking "no action" for "no action within 6 hours".

This should be dealt with properly when all parties are back in London, and there will be an FA investigation and probably a 6 match ban.

You're essentially complaining that someone who got arrested hasn't been convicted the day after.

 

[domalino]

As an aside to the issue of racism here, when the fuck did it become a thing for national teams to sing about other national teams/players when celebrating their own success?

Is it that different to "2 world wars, 1 world cup" or 10 German bombers? Ji Sung Park eats dogs? Cisse's family at the bottom of the sea? "Adebayor, Adebayor, your dad washes elephants, your mum is a whore"

All that's changed is cameraphones so you see the players joinging in.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Toni Kroos is a massive prick. Didn’t need his recent comments to confirm it, when Ozil and Gundogan got racist abuse he said “Ozil very well knows there’s no racism in the DFB” despite there being plenty of evidence and reports from immigrant background players at all levels of the pyramid saying it was true.

Hmmm...I know someone who follows german football closely and well I hate to break it to you but Toni Kross isn't the only one in that group, Leroy almost came to blows with one of them and recently another one triggered Rudiger.

We are coming full circle again, Unfortunately the world is designed in a way that makes most of us sheeps following the Shephard and in this case the Shephard happens to be a country with one of the most despicable practices and records in regards to race relations, The United States of America. We are force-fed their media content, their lifestyle, their movies, their products, their economic decision affects that of most if not all countries, we are drawn into their wars and on and on and on.

Most people would deny it but even the most Pro-America historians would tell you that the ideas that shaped the deranged man who plunged the world into WW2 was inspired by American ideologies (I might be wrong here but I think he wrote about this in that silly book of his) and today, America has once again made racism and fascist ideologies seem cool and "manly", mutual respect is now seen as "woke, politically correct and weak", while blatant racism is now cool.

The Argies are very well aware of their market base and who they appeal to and they are playing up to it.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

I hadn’t seen that video. Pretty damning really for the lot of them. There is no way they stopped singing.

This is the social media generation of footballers not using their brains. Someone said earlier in the thread about why all of a sudden different nations are singing about other nations. That’s why, the social media generation.

Why do people feel like these footballers aren't aware of their support base? People aren't that dumb, you have politicians using subtle dog whistles and hand gestures to appeal to their base, you have washed up actors and social media "influencers" deliberately recording themselves saying or doing certain things and then being invited to Fox news as guests, promoting their books and their image to a particular base. You think Footballers are any different?

We have clubs were their fans take pride in the fact that they have a "strong, right wing, racist" ultra fan base, now if I was an Argentine Footballer looking for the easiest way to make myself relatable to these ultras, what would be the best way to do it? Hmmm...let me see?

Don't forget before the end of the season, Enzo was trying to force a move out of Chelsea and the clubs he was linked to are in Italy and Spain respectively, basically "ultras" territory. He knows the multicultural background of his team mates, he knows the video would make its way to social media, he knows the effect that video would have in the dressing room, these footballers are not as dumb as we would like to think they are.

 

[domalino]

Why do people feel like these footballers aren't aware of their support base? People aren't that dumb, you have politicians using subtle dog whistles and hand gestures to appeal to their base, you have washed up actors and social media "influencers" deliberately recording themselves saying or doing certain things and then being invited to Fox news as guests, promoting their books and their image to a particular base. You think Footballers are any different?

We have clubs were their fans take pride in the fact that they have a "strong, right wing, racist" ultra fan base, now if I was an Argentine Footballer looking for the easiest way to make myself relatable to these ultras, what would be the best way to do it? Hmmm...let me see?

I really don't think it's that complicated, it's just become normalised. In the same way someone might sing along to their favourite rap song and say the N word 20 times in 3 minutes but would never use it in conversation or as an insult.

The fans embrace the song and sing it everywhere for 2 years, the players hear it over and over until the meaning of the lyrics doesn't really register anymore.

It's the same reason you get people having first dances at their wedding to Every Breath You Take or why Donald Trump uses "Born in the USA" as a song about how great the USA is despite it being literally the exact opposite. Lyrics are in some ways the least important part of a song. Back in the 70s and 80s, artists like Bowie would literally write out a song he was working on, cut it into rhyming pairs of lines and then just reorder them until the song made no sense but sounded better.

Add in plenty of beers and post-tournament euphoria and people just forget what they're actually singing. Sit down and ask each player that was singing individually if they agree with the lyrics printed out on a sheet and they'd be probably be horrified, even accounting for Latin-America's lax attitude to racism.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

I really don't think it's that complicated, it's just become normalised. In the same way someone might sing along to their favourite rap song and say the N word 20 times in 3 minutes but would never use it in conversation or as an insult.

The fans embrace the song and sing it everywhere for 2 years, the players hear it over and over until the meaning of the lyrics doesn't really register anymore.

It's the same reason you get people having first dances at their wedding to Every Breath You Take or why Donald Trump uses "Born in the USA" as a song about how great the USA is despite it being literally the exact opposite. Lyrics are in some ways the least important part of a song. Back in the 70s and 80s, artists like Bowie would literally write out a song he was working on, cut it into rhyming pairs of lines and then just reorder them until the song made no sense but sounded better.

Add in plenty of beers and post-tournament euphoria and people just forget what they're actually singing. Sit down and ask each player that was singing individually if they agree with the lyrics printed out on a sheet and they'd be probably be horrified, even accounting for Latin-America's lax attitude to racism.

That's one discussion you probably wouldn't want to have. The outcome might be heartbreaking, look up the views of the new Argentine president and then look up what one of Argentinas most loved presidents Carlos Menem said about Argentina not having the same "problem" Brazil has. I would say it again, these footballers aren't the type to shove food up their nose, they are not damaged upstairs and are not as dumb as we would like to think they are.

 

[Crooked_rain]

I really don't think it's that complicated, it's just become normalised. In the same way someone might sing along to their favourite rap song and say the N word 20 times in 3 minutes but would never use it in conversation or as an insult.

The fans embrace the song and sing it everywhere for 2 years, the players hear it over and over until the meaning of the lyrics doesn't really register anymore.

It's the same reason you get people having first dances at their wedding to Every Breath You Take or why Donald Trump uses "Born in the USA" as a song about how great the USA is despite it being literally the exact opposite. Lyrics are in some ways the least important part of a song. Back in the 70s and 80s, artists like Bowie would literally write out a song he was working on, cut it into rhyming pairs of lines and then just reorder them until the song made no sense but sounded better.

Add in plenty of beers and post-tournament euphoria and people just forget what they're actually singing. Sit down and ask each player that was singing individually if they agree with the lyrics printed out on a sheet and they'd be probably be horrified, even accounting for Latin-America's lax attitude to racism.

I get your point you're trying to make...

I just think there's quite difference in the awareness of the lyrics in a song by The Police by a couple choosing a song their wedding dance and a group of players singing songs about black players.

I don't think you can really bring David Bowie's abstract cut and paste lyric writing as an example of lyrics not meaning much to the listeners as an example that players don't realise what they're singing about when singing about black people

Even if you want to bring the hip hop example into it, well a Dr Dre song may use that word multiplie times but the topic of the song is not offensive towards black people. the topic of this song by the Argentinian players is essentially saying black people are not French because of their african heritage and bringing their passport into it. It's entirely different.

 

[domalino]

I get your point you're trying to make...

I just think there's quite difference in the awareness of the lyrics in a song by The Police by a couple choosing a song their wedding dance and a group of players singing songs about black players.

I don't think you can really bring David Bowie's abstract cut and paste lyric writing as an example of lyrics not meaning much to the listeners as an example that players don't realise what they're singing about when singing about black people

Personally I think this being the 1,000,000th example of drunk people singing along to explicit lyrics without really thinking what they mean is more likely than the idea every player in the Argentine squad is a raving racist or trying to win over their racist ultras.

If you think otherswise, that's your perogative.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Personally I think this being the 1,000,000th example of drunk people singing along to explicit lyrics without really thinking what they mean is more likely than the idea every player in the Argentine squad is a raving racist or trying to win over their racist ultras.

If you think otherswise, that's your perogative.

I'm afraid that drunk excuse is a cop out and not a very good one.

 

[kunaguero10]

Is it that different to "2 world wars, 1 world cup" or 10 German bombers? Ji Sung Park eats dogs? Cisse's family at the bottom of the sea? "Adebayor, Adebayor, your dad washes elephants, your mum is a whore"

All that's changed is cameraphones so you see the players joinging in.

I must have missed an England footballer singing 10 German bombers after a win

 

[Crooked_rain]

Personally I think this being the 1,000,000th example of drunk people singing along to explicit lyrics without really thinking what they mean is more likely than the idea every player in the Argentine squad is a raving racist or trying to win over their racist ultras.

If you think otherswise, that's your perogative.

Well it's my opinion

given the fact I have quite close ties to that country with my wife being half Argentinian and knowing their culture quite well and their history, I would say they players are fully aware of what they were singing and it wasn't just a case of them being pissed up. But again, it really is just my opinion and you have yours.

maybe they're not inherently racist in their every day life but neither am I and I don't go around singing racist songs after a good scoop.

I think there's enjoying yourself, having a drink and a good knees up...and then there's singing racist songs

 

[domalino]

I must have missed an England footballer singing 10 German bombers after a win

Yeah, because it happened before 2008.

If you think no England players have ever sung along to that song then I don't know what to say to you...

 

[Crooked_rain]

Yeah, because it happened before 2008.

If you think no England players have ever sung along to that song then I don't know what to say to you...

Which England players were singing it? I've never seen it but maybe they did

Two wrongs don't make a right though.

Besides, if English players today were singing on a live stream, I'm sure they'd be called out over it.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Well it's my opinion

given the fact I have quite close ties to that country with my wife being half Argentinian and knowing their culture quite well and their history, I would say they players are fully aware of what they were singing and it wasn't just a case of them being pissed up. But again, it really is just my opinion and you have yours.

maybe they're not inherently racist in their every day life but neither am I and I don't go around singing racist songs after a good scoop.

I think there's enjoying yourself, having a drink and a good knees up...and then there's singing racist songs

I mean there are certain songs River Plate fans consider derogatory when sung by Boca Juniors fans and vice versa, these people are very well aware of that concept, so to say that they have normalized racism to the point that they aren't aware of the derogatory nature of this particular song is just a weird take.

The Germans sang the infamous Gaucho dance song after winning the 2014 world cup and the entire Argentina lost it, the media out there criticized Germans and eventually the Germans had to apologize.

Let's not brush this under the carpet as some kind of "drunk, jolly" moment. They are very well aware of the concept of a derogatory song, it hasn't been normalized and they know it.