The Labour Government

[mexico1970]

Oblivious mate.

He'll ask for a reputable source :)

 

[metalblue]

The post said the "worst" thing is not that there might be a few million pensioners in the middle, struggling, but now not getting the WFA. The "worst" thing was that there are a small number of people who are marginally "less deserving" than a small number of people just over the pension credit limit.

Given that benefit entitlement will often open up additions from free prescriptions, or access to replacement boiler programmes, some of the right wingers on here must have been constantly outraged for the last few decades.

ps. If you there are a large number of pensioners who have only ever worked 2 days or even 20 months in their entire lives, I'd like to see the stats. Given the number who reach pension age without doing any work is apparently tiny, it's a huge stretch to imagine there is any kind of significant number who have hardly worked.

You only qualify after 10 years

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Does the news you only like register with you?

Germany considering Rwanda deportations using UK facilities after Labour ditched plan

Downing Street said it would not comment on the discussions between two foreign governments

www.independent.co.uk

German official says Rwanda deportation plan using UK facilities considered

German official proposes sending asylum seekers to facilities in Rwanda funded by the UK.

www.aljazeera.com

Could Germany resurrect Britain's Rwanda migrant scheme?

Germany is now considering resurrecting the plan to use Rwanda as a third party country for migrants, using facilities paid for by Britain

www.spectator.co.uk

You see why I just flick past these type of posts as they are either trolling or bad faith actors.

I read this a couple of days ago on the Beeb and was a non-story where a junior minister from a minority party in Germany was asked a question on Rwanda, and responded that they ‘could’ take up the scheme.

Scholz immediately quashed any talk of it as they are looking to do what we are doing, with the UK government, who have been in recent discussions with Germany, confirming the same. Germany are looking at 3rd countries to process asylum applications, like the UK.

The whole story was a nothing and would have been dismissed by anybody who had the whereabouts to do some critical thinking, then it ends up on here as fact.

Like I say, bad faith actor or, just a troll? Unless … you actually believed it?

 

[metalblue]

The old age pension was introduced when 5% of the population was over 65. That's now 20% and still rising.

The birthrate is going down.

What happens when there are more pensioners than people working to pay for pensions - and for the health care costs for millions of people in their 90s?

(Discuss without reference to the current outrage over winter fuel payments.)

You could argue that when the NHS was introduced it cost £5bn a year in today’s terms. Should we bin it off as it’s a bit spenny these days.

 

[mexico1970]

You see why I just flick past these type of posts as they are either trolling or bad faith actors.

I read this a couple of days ago on the Beeb and was a non-story where a junior minister from a minority party in Germany was asked a question on Rwanda, and responded that they ‘could’ take up the scheme.

Scholz immediately quashed any talk of it as they are looking to do what we are doing, with the UK government, who have been in recent discussions with Germany, confirming the same. Germany are looking at 3rd countries to process asylum applications, like the UK.

The whole story was a nothing and would have been dismissed by anybody who had the whereabouts to do some critical thinking, then it ends up on here as fact.

Like I say, bad faith actor, or just a troll.

All the papers covered it and still cover it now, the fact Labour sold the facilities on is the big story here.

Also they announced that they themselves are going to stop the boats 3 days ago, you're a fucking tory pal.

 

[metalblue]

No and no.

You’d be surprised.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Still think the moaning tax is the way to go, although the handful of posters regurgitating their vitriol would be bankrupt by now.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

He'll ask for a reputable source :)

Well it says right there in the articles you posted that:

1. They’re unlikely to adopt the policy at all, this is just one of the smaller parties in the coalition talking about it
2. Their suggested policy is fundamentally different to the UK in that people will only go there while they wait for their claim to be processed and then return if successful.
3. They would do this under UN guidance and supervision to ensure international law was being followed. So the ethical dilemma you seem to be proposing is kind of solved if such a mechanism was implemented.

Sure you can say this is “a” Rwanda policy. But it’s certainly not the Conservatives Rwanda policy - which was deemed to be illegal and a contravention of international law.

I still think it’s a terrible, expensive and rubbish idea and an absolute non-starter even in this format. But if the Germans want to go to great lengths to mobilise something legally acceptable and pay us for the privilege then they can knock themselves out.

 

[hampshireblue]

But that's not what the government needs, they need you back in work, its not about paying your income tax its about creating wealth for the country. They pay you £30 an hour and the business charges you out at £90 an hour. You pay your tax and so does the business along with the associated increase in GDP.

I do create wealth, everytime I go out for lunch, have a coffee, stay in a hotel... I also pay £20k in income tax as well as VAT on goods and services used.

In August there were 884000 work vacancies and 1.44m registered unemployed. So actually 600k more unemployed workers than vacancies. Now, according to you, HMG thinks I should go and get a job. Let's assume any "decent" paying job will require the employer to train me. So that's probably not attractive for them, me being 63.

OK, I'll go for,( and I have nothing against anyone used in an example), a vacancy at B&Q, Greggs or Waitrose( other employers do exist) for minimum wage or thereabouts. I now have an income and so I'll drawdown less from my pension. I don't have as much free time to spend it, so no longer need as much, so no longer pay 40% tax. I also don't go out as much so local businesses are not getting my custom as they did. I'm also filling a role that potentially someone less well off, and at present generating NO wealth, or maybe even claiming unemployment benefit, could be doing. My input to the economy has not changed in a positive manner, far from it.

The key is not what the likes of I do or not generate, but how those 884k vacancies can be filled from the 1.44m. Either the location of the vacancies and unemployed don't match, or more likely the vacancies are for roles that many of us would not want to be carrying out for whatever reason. I don't profess to know what the answer is.

 

[metalblue]

Whilst ending the junior doctors strikes, how many operations and lives is that saving? Ending the train strikes, sorting out the NHS and dealing with the 22 billion black hole the Tories left - but yes, it’s Labour that are the cruel ones.

If it was such a good policy why are Labour MPs distancing themselves from it. Even cabinet members. If a thundercunt like Streeting thinks it’s shit then you can bet it’s really shit.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

All the papers covered it and still cover it now, the fact Labour sold the facilities on is the big story here.

Also they announced that they themselves are going to stop the boats 3 days ago, you're a fucking tory pal.

Whatever our thoughts, and mine certainly ain’t Tory, one thing that I did like about this part of the forum was that, the majority of the time, people could debate rationally and bring genuine issues to the fore. That seems to be long gone and we are now at the point where any critical thinking has disappeared into the ‘Red Mist’.

If you believe that Germany are taking on the Rwanda scheme, and put that out as fact to those who want to take on that misinformation as the truth, then it’s no wonder the likes of Twitter do so well.

Enjoy your fake world ;-)

 

[hampshireblue]

No idea what point you are making to me, I'm well aware of supply and demand and no I didn't vote for Brexit, it impacted on my business with a knock on that affected the people I employed, all be it small scale.

Btw, I don't moan, I get it with what I have to, I'll leave the moaning others, I'm just expressing an opinion.

You did say : "What some people don't realise is the current cost of living increases eats into the savings us FOC's have made to make our retired life comfortable whereby some people in employment are now getting inflation busting pay rises.

A brick layer I know is now charging £300'a day and his "hod carrier" gets £170 a day, equivalent to £40k per year for a labourer."

It did come across as a bit of a moan.!!

 

[mexico1970]

Well it says right there in the articles you posted that:

1. They’re unlikely to adopt the policy at all, this is just one of the smaller parties in the coalition talking about it
2. Their suggested policy is fundamentally different to the UK in that people will only go there while they wait for their claim to be processed and then return if successful.
3. They would do this under UN guidance and supervision to ensure international law was being followed. So the ethical dilemma you seem to be proposing is kind of solved if such a mechanism was implemented.

Sure you can say this is “a” Rwanda policy. But it’s certainly not the Conservatives Rwanda policy - which was deemed to be illegal and a contravention of international law.

I still think it’s a terrible, expensive and rubbish idea and an absolute non-starter even in this format. But if the Germans want to go to great lengths to mobilise something legally acceptable and pay us for the privilege then they can knock themselves out.

What it really says is that the plan is a goer and the only difference would be that would have to be EU sanctioned. The EU flags shaggers liking everything the EU does doesn't make it right.

 

[BlueHammer85]

They have sorted the sum total of fuck all out, when are they going to remove those cruel tory policies they whinged about for 14 years?

And sending Germanys asylum seekers to Rwanda is fine now.

How is sorting the pay and ending the strikes for junior doctors fuck all ?? Was dragging the health service to lowest point ever under the Tories.

Same for the train services.

Country wasn’t far off brink of collapse under Tories, NHS fucked, prisons full, shit flowing in the river and everything you can think off.
Labour have inherited a complete and utter mess and will need time to turn it around- we know you and your ilk won’t allow that though.

 

[mexico1970]

How is sorting the pay and ending the strikes for junior doctors fuck all ?? Was dragging the health service to lowest point ever under the Tories.

Same for the train services.

Country wasn’t far off brink of collapse under Tories, NHS fucked, prisons full, shit flowing in the river and everything you can think off.
Labour have inherited a complete and utter mess and will need time to turn it around- we know you and your ilk won’t allow that though.

Not one thing for the poor in the country, nothing taken back just empty words. It's no surprise he's capitulating to the unions.

What is the point of Labour if Starmer won’t scrap cruel Tory policies? — Scottish National Party

What is the point of Labour, if they can’t even commit to scrapping the two-child cap and abhorrent rape clause?

www.snp.org

Starmer is finally showing his ruthless side by stealing Tory policies | John Rentoul

In recent weeks, Labour has unveiled policies on crime, immigration, buying land to build houses on and Brexit. Each one has sought to steal the Conservatives’ clothes, writes John Rentoul

www.independent.co.uk

He's a tory and you support him even though he's done nothing and will do nothing for the bottom rung of our society.

 

[Semper aggressus]

Will you pay more on health insurance than any tax increase in the budget?

The health insurance is a consideration, but no it’ll be way lower than what we’ll get taxed on foreign income in the UK.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Not one thing for the poor in the country, nothing taken back just empty words. It's no surprise he's capitulating to the unions.

What is the point of Labour if Starmer won’t scrap cruel Tory policies? — Scottish National Party

What is the point of Labour, if they can’t even commit to scrapping the two-child cap and abhorrent rape clause?

www.snp.org

Starmer is finally showing his ruthless side by stealing Tory policies | John Rentoul

In recent weeks, Labour has unveiled policies on crime, immigration, buying land to build houses on and Brexit. Each one has sought to steal the Conservatives’ clothes, writes John Rentoul

www.independent.co.uk

He's a tory and you support him even though he's done nothing and will do nothing for the bottom rung of our society.

He’s done alot already , hell of alot.

There will ALWAYS be media attacking the government, zero suprise there.

 

[mexico1970]

He’s done alot already , hell of alot.

There will ALWAYS be media attacking the government, zero suprise there.

He has done nothing to help the poor other than announcing that he isn't going to.

You're a tory.

 

[BlueHammer85]

He has done nothing to help the poor other than announcing that he isn't going to.

You're a tory.

I’m Labour. I detest what the Tories have done to the country.

I like the fact Labour have negotiated straight away junior doctor and train strikes.
I like the fact Starmer did not f*ck about with dealing with the far right riots.
I can see rationally the need to make some tough choices, cuts and rises to sort out the financial mess the Tories made.

They’ve made a very promising start in my opinion.

 

[mexico1970]

I’m Labour. I detest what the Tories have done to the country.

I like the fact Labour have negotiated straight away junior doctor and train strikes.
I like the fact Starmer did not f*ck about with dealing with the far right riots.
I can see rationally the need to make some tough choices, cuts and rises to sort out the financial mess the Tories made.

They’ve made a very promising start in my opinion.

Yet weirdly have announced they are doing fuck all for poor people, like I said you're just a tory with a different colour rosette.

The poor will shoulder the costs not big businesses like Amazon and Starbucks. Pensioners. smokers, and this list will go on.