Electric cars

[fulabeer]

Or maybe these people have no means to charge at home?

But that shouldn't make people anti EV. Some people are dead set against EV's for no good reason.
Spreading false information and insults.
I agree EV's don't suit everybody yet. But they are getting very good, very quickly.

Charging at home is the cheaper way to run the car, but you can charge everywhere now.
Also, some charging companies run schemes offering cheaper charging for a monthly subscription.

My ICE car is in the garage tomorrow for 4 glow plugs and controller, and injector no2 being replaced.
To be fair, this car has given very little trouble over the last three years. Yet for the last 8 months, every month sees a new engine fault. EGR/DPF/Stop-Start. The engine literally feeds it's own shit back down its throat. So no matter how well serviced and looked after, the emission stuff eventually kills the engine. It will be my last ICE car.

 

[crooky]

But that shouldn't make people anti EV. Some people are dead set against EV's for no good reason.
Spreading false information and insults.
I agree EV's don't suit everybody yet. But they are getting very good, very quickly.

Charging at home is the cheaper way to run the car, but you can charge everywhere now.
Also, some charging companies run schemes offering cheaper charging for a monthly subscription.

My ICE car is in the garage tomorrow for 4 glow plugs and controller, and injector no2 being replaced.
To be fair, this car has given very little trouble over the last three years. Yet for the last 8 months, every month sees a new engine fault. EGR/DPF/Stop-Start. The engine literally feeds it's own shit back down its throat. So no matter how well serviced and looked after, the emission stuff eventually kills the engine. It will be my last ICE car.

Fair play. I dunno if I've been lucky or just picked well but I've never had any major issues with any of my petrol cars apart from one flat battery in my 18 years of motoring.

I'll never buy an EV until you can charge them as quickly as you fill your car up at a petrol station (I.e 3-4 minutes when it's quiet) or more likely everyone will be forced to buy one when it's the only choice. Or if people can't afford the extortionate costs of electric cars then they'll be forced to use taxis or public transport.

I think that's what people don't like about them. They're a threat on the freedom of ordinary people who either choose not to live in a house with a drive or cannot afford one.

 

[DiscoSteve]

I switched to an EV when my employer started offering salary a sacrifice scheme - I'd never leased a car before, bought everything outright (or paid for them with a final balloon).

But range and charge time were a consideration so I picked the model with the longest WLTP range I could afford which also had a 80% charge time of under 30 minutes. And on those two factors it has been absolutely fine. I'm done a few long journeys from Stockport to London/Bristol etc needing charges at least one way but its never been an issue as bladder range ALWAYS wins any way.

But here's the real surprise - they go like f**king stink - I've never been a speed freak having spent the last 25 years in big MPV's/4x4's and Pickup Trucks - but this is an absolute hoot! You petrol heads who like to drive fast should really make the leap! 55K list gets you basically supercar performance!

I have a home charger which can fill it up with juice over night and has a real world range of 330 miles!

But dont buy a new one yet, residuals are all over the place and you stand to lose a lot of ca$h - second hand is probably becoming a different story now though

 

[East Level 2]

Or maybe these people have no means to charge at home?

Exactly. I did a quick check a few weeks ago and the cheapest public charger are 45p/kW according to Google. Many are up to 65 p/kW.
Electric cars typically do 2.5 to 3 mpkW so the cheapest is 15p per mile. Petrol for my Hyundai Ionic hybrid is currently 10.5p per mile.
EVs are great if you can charge at home, but public charging is expensive, charger rollout is well behind the target set by the last government and the cars themselves are expensive to buy.
Are EVs the answer, or are they a stop-gap until another fuel system (possibly hydrogen fuel cells) are developed for wide scale use?

 

[BimboBob]

I switched to an EV when my employer started offering salary a sacrifice scheme - I'd never leased a car before, bought everything outright (or paid for them with a final balloon).

But range and charge time were a consideration so I picked the model with the longest WLTP range I could afford which also had a 80% charge time of under 30 minutes. And on those two factors it has been absolutely fine. I'm done a few long journeys from Stockport to London/Bristol etc needing charges at least one way but its never been an issue as bladder range ALWAYS wins any way.

But here's the real surprise - they go like f**king stink - I've never been a speed freak having spent the last 25 years in big MPV's/4x4's and Pickup Trucks - but this is an absolute hoot! You petrol heads who like to drive fast should really make the leap! 55K list gets you basically supercar performance!

I have a home charger which can fill it up with juice over night and has a real world range of 330 miles!

But dont buy a new one yet, residuals are all over the place and you stand to lose a lot of ca$h - second hand is probably becoming a different story now though

55k for a car? Out of reach for most people. 2nd hand battery? Wouldn't touch a 2nd hand electric car with a bargepole. No matter how cheap. One day you are going to have to get rid/ bury it somewhere. That won't be cheap.

 

[BimboBob]

But that shouldn't make people anti EV. Some people are dead set against EV's for no good reason.
Spreading false information and insults.
I agree EV's don't suit everybody yet. But they are getting very good, very quickly.

Charging at home is the cheaper way to run the car, but you can charge everywhere now.
Also, some charging companies run schemes offering cheaper charging for a monthly subscription.

My ICE car is in the garage tomorrow for 4 glow plugs and controller, and injector no2 being replaced.
To be fair, this car has given very little trouble over the last three years. Yet for the last 8 months, every month sees a new engine fault. EGR/DPF/Stop-Start. The engine literally feeds it's own shit back down its throat. So no matter how well serviced and looked after, the emission stuff eventually kills the engine. It will be my last ICE car.

I've just checked. 7 petrol stations within 5 miles of my house. 8 charging points. Not stations, points. Population within 5 miles is around 10,000. Seeing as we are at around 50% cars to population that's 5000 cars, give or take. For 8 charging points. But wait, I think I read somewhere that a third of uk residents don't have a driveway/ off road parking. So that's around 1600 cars that need to charge daily from 8 charging points. Yup, that will work out just fine.

Obviously this is a semi rural area so I dread to think what it would be like in a major town/ city.

Anyway, it's a mute point. Buying an electric car is just like buying a fridge. It's white goods. When I drive I want a bit of noise. Not some silent box. Sure some are fast. A lot aren't. And are incredibly dull.

I'll stick with my xk8. I like it's moving parts.

 

[inbetween]

Exactly. I did a quick check a few weeks ago and the cheapest public charger are 45p/kW according to Google. Many are up to 65 p/kW.
Electric cars typically do 2.5 to 3 mpkW so the cheapest is 15p per mile. Petrol for my Hyundai Ionic hybrid is currently 10.5p per mile.
EVs are great if you can charge at home, but public charging is expensive, charger rollout is well behind the target set by the last government and the cars themselves are expensive to buy.
Are EVs the answer, or are they a stop-gap until another fuel system (possibly hydrogen fuel cells) are developed for wide scale use?

Public chargers are expensive because the cost of energy has quadrupled over the last few years but they're still less than half as expensive versus petrol. Obviously the real game changer is charging from home, my EV costs me £2 to fully charge at home and that gives me 250 miles. It doesn't cost me anything to service or tax. I was previously paying £70 to fill up every other week + £500 road tax + £300 annual service.

I honestly don't understand the venom and opposition to them. The future is going to depend upon technology adoption and as that happens the cars will get cheaper. Petrol cars are cheap because they're widely adopted and have been around for 100 years. EV's have been around in mass for what 10 years?

Either way I've had shite petrol cars and great petrol cars but my EV has been the best car I've ever had. I'm 2 years in I have zero regrets. If it fits your driving style (no regular very long journeys) and you live in a house that can have a charger then it's a far superior choice if you can afford it.

It doesn't make sense on price to go from a cheapo runabout to an EV but it definitely makes sense to go from a more hungry and expensive car such as a BMW, Range Rover etc.

 

[East Level 2]

Public chargers are expensive because the cost of energy has quadrupled over the last few years but they're still less than half as expensive versus petrol. Obviously the real game changer is charging from home, my EV costs me £2 to fully charge at home and that gives me 250 miles. It doesn't cost me anything to service or tax. I was previously paying £70 to fill up every other week + £500 road tax + £300 annual service.

I honestly don't understand the venom and opposition to them. The future is going to depend upon technology adoption and as that happens the cars will get cheaper. Petrol cars are cheap because they're widely adopted and have been around for 100 years. EV's have been around in mass for what 10 years?

Either way I've had shite petrol cars and great petrol cars but my EV has been the best car I've ever had. I'm 2 years in I have zero regrets. If it fits your driving style (no regular very long journeys) and you live in a house that can have a charger then it's a far superior choice if you can afford it.

It doesn't make sense on price to go from a cheapo runabout to an EV but it definitely makes sense to go from a more hungry and expensive car such as a BMW, Range Rover et

How can public chargers be half as expensive as petrol when the cost per mile is 50% higher? They may be when servicing costs are taken into account, but they certainly aren't when considering fuel alone. I have nothing against EVs but I live in a flat without a designated parking place so they are not economically viable for me.

 

[vincent]

Does anyone have a Tesla that doesn’t have a home charger and just relies on their superchargers? If so, how do you find it?

 

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

Does anyone have a Tesla that doesn’t have a home charger and just relies on their superchargers? If so, how do you find it?

I did for 4 years until this year…

It was fine. I used to charge it overnight via home plug ( 3 pin variety, charging I think about 2.2kwr) and then top up by using the superchargers for long trips.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

Exactly. I did a quick check a few weeks ago and the cheapest public charger are 45p/kW according to Google. Many are up to 65 p/kW.
Electric cars typically do 2.5 to 3 mpkW so the cheapest is 15p per mile. Petrol for my Hyundai Ionic hybrid is currently 10.5p per mile.
EVs are great if you can charge at home, but public charging is expensive, charger rollout is well behind the target set by the last government and the cars themselves are expensive to buy.
Are EVs the answer, or are they a stop-gap until another fuel system (possibly hydrogen fuel cells) are developed for wide scale use?

Not sure where you get you mpkw figures from but I do not recognise them. My friend and I both have EVs and we average out at about 4mpkw over the year. Never had it as low as 3 even during winter driving. Lowest ever was about 3.7. During the summer months we regularly get between 4.5 and often 5.

Incidentally went to game on Wednesday, 230 miles return (A1 closed) but still had 60 miles left.

Incidentally, hydrogen is a non starter at present.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Exactly. I did a quick check a few weeks ago and the cheapest public charger are 45p/kW according to Google. Many are up to 65 p/kW.
Electric cars typically do 2.5 to 3 mpkW so the cheapest is 15p per mile. Petrol for my Hyundai Ionic hybrid is currently 10.5p per mile.
EVs are great if you can charge at home, but public charging is expensive, charger rollout is well behind the target set by the last government and the cars themselves are expensive to buy.
Are EVs the answer, or are they a stop-gap until another fuel system (possibly hydrogen fuel cells) are developed for wide scale use?

I think the current EVs will probably go the way of betamax. Either because of better next generation EVs or as you say another technology.

 

[East Level 2]

Not sure where you get you mpkw figures from but I do not recognise them. My friend and I both have EVs and we average out at about 4mpkw over the year. Never had it as low as 3 even during winter driving. Lowest ever was about 3.7. During the summer months we regularly get between 4.5 and often 5.

Incidentally went to game on Wednesday, 230 miles return (A1 closed) but still had 60 miles left.

Incidentally, hydrogen is a non starter at present.

The mpkw figure came from a Google search about 6 months ago. It could have been slightly low as electric and hybrids offer poorer mpg and mpkw in winter. I drove a fully electric Hyundai Kona yesterday and it was showing 3.9 mpkw.

 

[East Level 2]

Does anybody have experience of plug-in hybrids? Some of the mpg figures seem ludicrous eg over 200 mpg. I know these result from a totally unrealistic measurement method so I'm after some real world experience.
I live in a flat so full electric isn't an option, but plug-in might work economically if the high mpg offset the higher public charger prices.

 

[meltonblue]

55k for a car? Out of reach for most people. 2nd hand battery? Wouldn't touch a 2nd hand electric car with a bargepole. No matter how cheap. One day you are going to have to get rid/ bury it somewhere. That won't be cheap.

He did say salary sacrifice to be fair, which is how I got mine too.

 

[bluethrunthru]

sold the wife's car last night to a neighbour for £200. It was a 59 plate Chevrolet Matiz 35k 2 owner car 4 new tyres, 11 months MOT, 10 month old exhaust just that the clutch had started slipping and she had run out of patience with it so she wanted out.

Guy I sold it to is a Vauxhall salesman who had a Corsa EV but decided taking the money for a company car but running his own was a better bet

 

[PragueBlue]

Does anybody have experience of plug-in hybrids? Some of the mpg figures seem ludicrous eg over 200 mpg. I know these result from a totally unrealistic measurement method so I'm after some real world experience.
I live in a flat so full electric isn't an option, but plug-in might work economically if the high mpg offset the higher public charger prices.

I had a Volvo XC60 plug-in hybrid (about 40 miles of electric per full charge) and got way more than 200 mpg. At one stage it was over 1,000 mpg I think.

I only did a few short journeys per day (school run, shopping etc) and so I could basically just run it on electric mode. That was until somebody told me that petrol deteriorates and I shouldn't leave it sitting in the tank for a long period. I then started using it a bit more on hybrid mode, just to make sure the petrol was gradually being used up.

IMO plug-in hybrids are great for someone like me who would normally do less than 40 miles per day but also does the occasional longer journey.

 

[East Level 2]

I had a Volvo XC60 plug-in hybrid (about 40 miles of electric per full charge) and got way more than 200 mpg. At one stage it was over 1,000 mpg I think.

I only did a few short journeys per day (school run, shopping etc) and so I could basically just run it on electric mode. That was until somebody told me that petrol deteriorates and I shouldn't leave it sitting in the tank for a long period. I then started using it a bit more on hybrid mode, just to make sure the petrol was gradually being used up.

IMO plug-in hybrids are great for someone like me who would normally do less than 40 miles per day but also does the occasional longer journey.

Thanks for the info. Do you select the mode or does it run in electric mode until the battery is almost flat?
I'd be using mixture of public charging and petrol so might not see any monetary benefit. I think some supermarkets offer free charging so that might help.
My petrol hybrid has averaged 60 mpg over 3 years, so I'm happy with that at the moment.

 

[PragueBlue]

Thanks for the info. Do you select the mode or does it run in electric mode until the battery is almost flat?
I'd be using mixture of public charging and petrol so might not see any monetary benefit. I think some supermarkets offer free charging so that might help.
My petrol hybrid has averaged 60 mpg over 3 years, so I'm happy with that at the moment.

You select the mode. Electric only, hybrid or power mode (just petrol). If you run on electric only mode, it automatically switches to hybrid mode when the electric runs out.

I only ever charged at home so don't really know about supermarket charging. I can only speak about my Volvo but I'd be surprised if you didn't get over 200 mpg unless you do a lot of miles per day.

It was the perfect car for me and my needs. If you do a lot of longer journeys, a petrol or full electric maybe better options.

 

[fulabeer]

55k for a car? Out of reach for most people. 2nd hand battery? Wouldn't touch a 2nd hand electric car with a bargepole. No matter how cheap. One day you are going to have to get rid/ bury it somewhere. That won't be cheap.

He said 55k gets you supercar performance. So in performance terms, they are way way cheaper.
EV's start at 14k (Dacia Spring). Secondhand get you a nearly new EV for same as ICE.

Why not touch 2nd hand EV's because of the battery? The batteries are turning out to last much longer that thought. So the minimum 8 year battery warranties are going up to 20 years or lifetime. What's the average engine and gearbox warranty on an ICE car?
Also, there is now a scheme were used EV batteries are going into battery electric storage use after car use.
It works as batteries are considered failed when they drop below 80% for an EV. Yet for commercial use, 80% is not an issue at all. So energy firms are using them to store electric for peak times etc. They then dismantle the core materials for recycle.

I cannot believe i'm sticking up for EV's. Unfortunately, there is so much ignorance about them, that people like me avoided them for far to long.
It's insane that people finally have an alternative to pumping toxic gas directly into our lungs, and are somehow against them. Yes, i know they pollute elsewhere, but still better than towns and cities.

I don't care if some people don't want one, fine by me, your loss. But people shouldn't spread fake news to fit an agenda.