US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I don't know. Possibly, but I also think a lot of Trump sympathizers are mice who think they're cats. They act like they have some rational reason for voting for him, the economy or whatever, when the reality is they're easy marks and they've been taken in by his personality and his validation of their grievances, and they're ignoring every red flag. That's the particular skill of a conman and not easily replicable by another politician.

If they’re easy marks, they won’t be hard to fool next time either. In fact, they’ll be even easier.

 

[BayernMan]

It’s crazy that I keep hearing that Harris ran the “perfect campaign” in US media yet she got more than 10 million less votes than Biden. How can the perfect campaign cause so many people not to show up for you?

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

This election had nothing to do with Trump's crimes/indiscretions/unpalatable opinions.

Right. Character, decency, kindness and even simply abiding by the law doesn’t matter.

It’s a new bar set so low literally anyone can leap over it.

We’re never going back.

Ever.

 

[The blue phantom]

I don’t think that’s fair. You should listen to his Brian Cox interviews on there - fascinating insight into astronomy, physics etc - or his interviews with Bernie Sanders (to keep it in the political sphere) or Edward Snowdon. Rogan’s podcast are interesting when his interviewees are interesting. It’s true he invites the occasional nut job like Alex Jones and people on the fringes of society but intelligent people can make their own minds up about those figures and what is being said. I personally find when he has the less famous names on but specialists in their field (I often like the scientists or computer experts he invites on) they are the most insightful interviews. Each to their own I guess.

Rogan has gone down the rabbit hole of everything he once despised. Just watch Kyle dig up all his old clips of what he once stood for.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Rogan has gone down the rabbit hole of everything he once despised. Just watch Kyle dig up all his old clips of what he once stood for.

Joe Rogan never stood for anything. Except commercializing his personality.

 

[bugsyblue]

Hold up , most of the facist warnings were coming from Trumps former inner circle, generals that have worked with him for years.

Harris run a campaign predominantly of hope, love and change.

Fair point on Harris, she was definitely more composed and measured and didn't, from memory at least, really ever overstep the mark which of course is Trump's MO. But there were several democrats that labelled him fascist and/or hitler weren't there? I remember them having to clarify and correct their comments. Again this might be the right taking things out of context and manipulating the narrative. Either way I would say overall the left, be it democrats or media, were more sharped tongue against trump this time than last.

 

[Middedon]

It’s crazy that I keep hearing that Harris ran the “perfect campaign” in US media yet she got more than 10 million less votes than Biden. How can the perfect campaign cause so many people not to show up for you?

At least among the liberal pundits I listen to, it’s more “a perfect campaign given the situation.” Came in late, good debate, raised money, no big gaffes, etc. But the cards were stacked against her from the start - as kind of described in the attached.

 

[blue for life]

Welcome to the club. What took you so long?

Nothing. I have always thought that

 

[hcblue95]

Add to that the left's consistent attitude of treating the population like idiots, telling them they're better off when they are tangibly poorer, and it really is game over.

Because centrists and the right never do this? It's pretty much the first rule of politics, tell the public they're better off under their party.

Anyway who are the left in this scenario? The democrats are far more aligned with your politics than left wing politics.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Right. Character, decency, kindness and even simply abiding by the law doesn’t matter.

It’s a new bar set so low literally anyone can leap over it.

We’re never going back.

Ever.

I hear your frustration but people have never voted based on those factors.

 

[bugsyblue]

Rogan has gone down the rabbit hole of everything he once despised. Just watch Kyle dig up all his old clips of what he once stood for.

Rogan's been pretty open about his disillusionment with the Democratic Party. But that's like a number of people! Musk used to be a democrat. Plus millions of Americans by the look of the latest vote count.

Whilst I would have voted for Harris (if I was a US citizen) I actually don't think criticising people for turning and voting for the other party is healthy nor productive. The question you want to be asking is why? Politics should never be treated like a football team IMO, where you nail your support to the team and live and die by that decision, enjoying the highs and lows. And us city fans can relate to that more than anyone! But in politics I'd argue it's actually important at times to switch as policies and needs and the environment all fluctuate.

The bitter pill to swallow is that people have switched to a party led by a pretty abhorrent individual. I get that. But we still need to ask and figure out why otherwise we'll just remain polarised and angry.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Because centrists and the right never do this? It's pretty much the first rule of politics, tell the public they're better off under their party.

Anyway who are the left in this scenario? The democrats are far more aligned with your politics than left wing politics.

“The left” in that context is relative. I agree the Democrats politically are closer to UK centre politics.

The issue the left has is they speak down to people in a way that really irritates people, especially the working classes.

The right, right or wrongly, has an ability to make people feel empowered and aspirational.

“Hey poor people, we’ll look after you” vs “vote for us and we’ll give you the opportunity to better your own lives”.

It is a powerful message. People want to feel like they can be better off.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Rogan's been pretty open about his disillusionment with the Democratic Party. But that's like a number of people! Musk used to be a democrat. Plus millions of Americans by the look of the latest vote count.

Whilst I would have voted for Harris (if I was a US citizen) I actually don't think criticising people for turning and voting for the other party is healthy nor productive. The question you want to be asking is why? Politics should never be treated like a football team IMO, where you nail your support to the team and live and die by that decision, enjoying the highs and lows. And us city fans can relate to that more than anyone! But in politics I'd argue it's actually important at times to switch as policies and needs and the environment all fluctuate.

The bitter pill to swallow is that people have switched to a party led by a pretty abhorrent individual. I get that. But we still need to ask and figure out why otherwise we'll just remain polarised and angry.

This.

 

[The blue phantom]

Joe Rogan never stood for anything. Except commercializing his personality.

He basically supported Bernie to endorsing Trump. He was like that for a while too.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Fair point on Harris, she was definitely more composed and measured and didn't, from memory at least, really ever overstep the mark which of course is Trump's MO. But there were several democrats that labelled him fascist and/or hitler weren't there? I remember them having to clarify and correct their comments. Again this might be the right taking things out of context and manipulating the narrative. Either way I would say overall the left, be it democrats or media, were more sharped tongue against trump this time than last.

So you’re overlooking the right that worked with him for many years using that term against him ?
Yes , sure many democrats and the left on social media but the loudest voices and the ones we should be listening too are the former generals and advisors that worked with him.

 

[meltonblue]

“The left” in that context is relative. I agree the Democrats politically are closer to UK centre politics.

The issue the left has is they speak down to people in a way that really irritates people, especially the working classes.

The right, right or wrongly, has an ability to make people feel empowered and aspirational.

“Hey poor people, we’ll look after you” vs “vote for us and we’ll give you the opportunity to better your own lives”.

It is a powerful message. People want to feel like they can be better off.

Both have those abilities, it just depends on personalities and the political situation for those camps at the time.

Right now you’re correct.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Both have those abilities, it just depends on personalities and the political situation for those camps at the time.

Right now you’re correct.

Yup.

Clinton got it. Obama got it. Blair got it.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I hear your frustration but people have never voted based on those factors.

That’s because most human beings think about such behavior as by and large a given to some degree in anyone. We’re all supposed to be civil here right? We expect and assume that.

So in the rare case that someone isn’t, or acts a total **** all the time, they are an outlier. And in fact there are normally real world social consequences for being a complete ****.

The consequences in America are you are elected President, your crimes go in prosecuted, you save yourself from bankruptcy, and you become the most powerful person on earth with a lockstep Senate, probably House and Supreme Court.

You don’t “hear my frustration” at all.

 

[inbetween]

“The left” in that context is relative. I agree the Democrats politically are closer to UK centre politics.

The issue the left has is they speak down to people in a way that really irritates people, especially the working classes.

The right, right or wrongly, has an ability to make people feel empowered and aspirational.

“Hey poor people, we’ll look after you” vs “vote for us and we’ll give you the opportunity to better your own lives”.

It is a powerful message. People want to feel like they can be better off.

One of the biggest frustrations for people is the rise of minority politics such as gender politics. These have become huge issues but I have never spoken to a single person who understands it let alone is bothered. Even our nieces and nephews in their early 20's groan when gender politics comes up in the news. Trump made it clear that these weren't going to be priorities for his administration but it clearly was for the Democrats.

As much as I can't stand Trump, his rhetoric and he is an awful person, the issues he does speak about are important to somebody like me, though I don't necessarily agree with the ways he will fix those problems! In the UK I am worried about the economy, immigration and safety. I can see how people may feel backed into a corner when those issues are marginalised and not given priority.

We're seeing it now in the UK where anybody with a concern over immigration is now suddenly being labelled as far-right. So in 4-5 years time you can imagine that the Tories will get in again on an anti-immigration ticket and suddenly people will be saying that the entire country is fascist and racist.

The only way the same won't happen here is if Labour stands up and tackles these difficult problems as a government that stands for everyone. So far I'm not so sure they will and then the end result will be inevitable.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

That’s because most human beings think about such behavior as by and large a given to some degree in anyone. We’re all supposed to be civil here right? We expect and assume that.

So in the rare case that someone isn’t, or acts a total **** all the time, they are an outlier. And in fact there are normally real world social consequences for being a complete ****.

The consequences in America are you are elected President, your crimes go in prosecuted, you save yourself from bankruptcy, and you become the most powerful person on earth with a lockstep Senate, probably House and Supreme Court.

You don’t “hear my frustration” at all.

I’m not actually disagreeing with you. I know you’re upset and it’s very personal for you, and that’s ok.

I am speaking as someone in another country who is looking at this and forming an objective opinion. I have no emotional attachment to the election. I’d have preferred Harris to win, but expected Trump to for all of the reasons I’ve outlined in this thread.

I hope you and your family are ok mate.