PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[GaudinoMotors]

By me, yes :) But I may be wrong.

The allegations are historic and nothing to do with the last two windows. Also, there is ample evidence of financial prudence from 2012 to 2018 as the accounts all complied with FFP.

I really don't see currently spending little money on recruitment as a defence against the allegations.

I suppose, if the club have done what is alleged and they are nervous about it, then they may cut back spending to show that the amounts fraudulently accounted for have not affected the results by enough to affect recent performance on the pitch but, firstly, I can't imagine the club has done what is alleged and, secondly, in the very unlikely situation that they have, then the above "defence" doesn't affect any of the years covered by the allegations and so the club would be in big trouble, whatever they have done after 2018.

To summarise, putting current performance at risk for a "defence" that has little value just doesn't seem a sensible strategy to me.

But, of course, I may be wrong.

Hmmm not so sure - but at least you're civil about it.
Cheers.

 

[paulchapo]

Let's say that, in January, we sign a player with a release clause (for the sake of argument, Zubamendi, but that's just an example) and a relatively cheap left-field option such as the Japanese striker at Celtic we were linked with in the summer. And would it be a surprise if we then we let McAtee go - I like him, but if he's getting only 72 minutes so far this season in the PL and CL with the injuries we have and given that he's 22 already, it's hard to see him playing much of a role in our future.

That still probably leaves us well up on the season's net spend. However, it might just be a sign that it's difficult to persuade clubs to release the players we want in the winter transfer window. And, while I do believe that the current disciplinary proceedings have been responsible to a significant degree for City wanting to be seen to be prudent in the market, I don't think it's the sole cause of our holding back on spending in the summer.

I also think a significant factor is that they wanted to hold off and see if Pep would renew or not before committing to spending a lot of money on new players who might then not fit under the new guy. Unfortunately, that took a risk in terms of fatigue not turning into injuries in an ageing squad that's been harder worked in recent years than any of our rival (we've had significantly more players involved in international tournaments and playing significantly more minutes than have Liverpool or Arsenal, say).

And there was also a probably a degree of complacency, perhaps even on Pep's part as well as that of the execs. If they thought that the deal for Alvarez was too good to turn down and he wanted to go, I think they thought a possible use of the false 9 system and perhaps the hoped for emergence of Oscar Bobb would see us OK. It's really been a perfect storm, unfortunately, but I'm relatively sanguine about us getting through it.

Spot on. It's not helped that aside from the injuries all our players seem to be off form as well. Usually one or two will drag the rest over the line but I can't say anyone has performed well lately.

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

Let's say that, in January, we sign a player with a release clause (for the sake of argument, Zubamendi, but that's just an example) and a relatively cheap left-field option such as the Japanese striker at Celtic we were linked with in the summer. And would it be a surprise if we then we let McAtee go - I like him, but if he's getting only 72 minutes so far this season in the PL and CL with the injuries we have and given that he's 22 already, it's hard to see him playing much of a role in our future.

That still probably leaves us well up on the season's net spend. However, it might just be a sign that it's difficult to persuade clubs to release the players we want in the winter transfer window. And, while I do believe that the current disciplinary proceedings have been responsible to a significant degree for City wanting to be seen to be prudent in the market, I don't think it's the sole cause of our holding back on spending in the summer.

I also think a major factor is that they wanted to hold off and see if Pep would renew or not before committing to spending a lot of money on new players who might then not fit under the new guy. Unfortunately, that took a risk in terms of fatigue not turning into injuries in an ageing squad that's been harder worked in recent years than any of our rivals (we've had significantly more players involved in international tournaments and playing significantly more minutes than have Liverpool or Arsenal, say).

And there was also a probably a degree of complacency, perhaps even on Pep's part as well as that of the execs. If they thought that the deal for Alvarez was too good to turn down and he wanted to go, I think they thought a possible use of the false 9 system and perhaps the hoped for emergence of Oscar Bobb would see us OK. It's really been a perfect storm, unfortunately, but I'm relatively sanguine about us getting through it.

That is a brilliant summary of where we are right now. When you say that you are sanguine about it do you mean you will just take whatever comes next in your stride or that you think it will improve markedly quickly?

If it is the latter then I'm not at all sure it will. Trying to find replacements for de Bruyne, Walker, Bernardo and possibly Stones in one summer window is a huge ask. Add to that the fact that we have three attacking wide players that don't contribute goals or many assists and no recognised left back (Gvardiol isn't one in my view) then it's a major reconstruction rather than a refresh. The club has been asleep at the wheel in the last couple of seasons and we have hit the buffers (mixed metaphor time).

 

[halfcenturyup]

Yes, but the rules also specify that any evidence thus admitted with the appeal panel's permission must have been unavailable during the initial hearing. I don't think that will be a serious issue for us, though. Why would we not have presented available evidence at the initial hearing if it was even remotely likely to be helpful to our case.

You are forgetting my crazy conspiracy theory. Then again, I don't blame you :)

 

[Stoned Rose]

You make some superb and valid points but a 300m investment in infrastructure is it any different from investing in players the actual commodity of a football club?

If we don't spend this January and make a serious statement then I am genuinely worried about this case and the implications.

Not easy to make statement signings in January.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Not easy to make statement signings in January.

Unless the statement is "We're desperate" :)

 

[Keeper!]

Not easy to make statement signings in January.

It can be done but is expensive but needs must.

 

[Father Paul]

I believe the legal advice was to go into the hearing phase with the best possible bank ballance. That would help the narrative that the club’s financial management was highly professional and highly successful. Remeber the end of season interview when Khaldoon described the club as a "money making machine". At the time I thought that was a bit weird.

The costs will be huge, I'm sure the club have done their upmost to control it but since 115 day we must have spent tens of millions on legal fees.

The North Stand development and the new stadium in New York must also have had a huge financial impact at CFG level.

All of the above plus Pep constantly prevaricating about renewal, might explain the net profit in the summer transfer window,

The knock on effect of that window plus the injuries and loss of form led to yesterday. Even the most blinkered fan would have to admit how lucky we were to get away with a 2 nil pasting.

January will be very revealing, if we make a couple of high profile signings I would be amazed. Despite the onfield risks of throwing in new players mid season I think splurging £100m on new players during the decision phase could be considered far too risky. For me, this season is a write off, we just have to hope we qualify for the 25/26 UCL.

It's a strange world if you have to spend millions on lawyers when you clearly state that you are innocent and have the evidence to prove it. There is something badly wrong about this whole business and I pray it is not anything to do with impropriety on our behalf. Roll on the verdict!!

 

[Father Paul]

Not easy to make statement signings in January.

But very easy to make desperation signings.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

It's a strange world if you have to spend millions on lawyers when you clearly state that you are innocent and have the evidence to prove it. There is something badly wrong about this whole business and I pray it is not anything to do with impropriety on our behalf. Roll on the verdict!!

There is something seriously wrong when the PL is controlled by a cabal of clubs desperate to remove a competitor from challenging their future success , do you not think ?

And suspect that jealousy and greed is the primary motive for such action.

The sooner the better that these cunts are exposed, shamed and destroyed imo.

 

[Father Paul]

T

There is something seriously wrong when the PL is controlled by a cabal of clubs desperate to remove a competitor from challenging their future success , do you not think ?

And suspect that jealousy and greed is the primary motive for such action.

The sooner the better that these cunts are exposed, shamed and destroyed imo.

That is one view and it may well be correct. But we need to wait for decision day which for me at least, can't come quickly enough.

 

[StockportJB76]

For me the biggest issue is the potential compensation claims from other clubs, which could hamper City for year's to come. They make ongoing planning and transfer activity more difficult.

Even if we are confident on the 115 case, there is alway's the likelihood that some form of point deduction, fine comes our way e.g. for non cooperation. The club is still however in a good position to ride any storm like this.

A year out of Champions League or even worst case- relegation can be dealt with. We will get extra income from club world cup, so this compensates things somewhat.

It makes sense to operate with older players under this wait and see scenario. Giving Gundo short term contract, stick with Walker for a bit, buy Savio where wages not so high.

The problem is if other clubs can hamper us over the longer term, by making massive compensation claims. Even if these claims were relitively unsuccessful they would seriously effect our ability to plan ahead/ buy top players, young players on long term deals, while the claims were being fought over. City would need to avoid risk under future PSR/whatever rules are brought in.

 

[M12Blue]

You make some superb and valid points but a 300m investment in infrastructure is it any different from investing in players the actual commodity of a football club?

If we don't spend this January and make a serious statement then I am genuinely worried about this case and the implications.

I do think if don’t invest in January it will have more to do with Pep having a change of heart than any misgivings about the case I reckon.
I do expect a spend of some significance however

 

[Blue Maverick]

Compensation to other teams is a load of crap, who can claim and for what reason, why have they not claimed off Everton or Forest. Apparently we will know the results around March, but either side can appeal, if we lose I fully expect us to appeal the PL might think best to just not. So if did appeal that could take another six months, no punishment could be dealt as if we won the appeal they’d be screwed.

 

[M12Blue]

Unless the statement is "We're desperate" :)

We are

 

[ganganvince]

Not easy to make statement signings in January.

Unless there is an active release clause.

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

Im confident we wont be buying any top players in January. Only rarely do the calibre of player required to improve our squad become available in Jan. Anyone with a release clause is likely to be ridiculously expensive. Weve proven we wont be bent over anyones barrel. The likes of Musiala and Wirtz are not moving from their respective clubs, no matter what the financial incentives, it doesn't happen. You can count on one hand tge number of top quality players who've jumped ship in Jan.

I have no idea if the charges have had an impact on player decisions to come to us or not and its no point speculating as we'll never know. We don't know if some future deals are already sorted.

This squad of players have gotten us into this mess, it's up to them to get us out of it. We know they have the balls and the knowhow, time to dig deep and find those elusive qualities! The leagues gone this year. It's imperative we don't finish outside the top 4.

I suspect summer will see us be very proactive in the market once these charges are laid to rest. I think we may look very different at the start of next season.

 

[petrusha]

That is a brilliant summary of where we are right now. When you say that you are sanguine about it do you mean you will just take whatever comes next in your stride or that you think it will improve markedly quickly?

If it is the latter then I'm not at all sure it will. Trying to find replacements for de Bruyne, Walker, Bernardo and possibly Stones in one summer window is a huge ask. Add to that the fact that we have three attacking wide players that don't contribute goals or many assists and no recognised left back (Gvardiol isn't one in my view) then it's a major reconstruction rather than a refresh. The club has been asleep at the wheel in the last couple of seasons and we have hit the buffers (mixed metaphor time).

When I say I'm sanguine, I mean I think we can probably scrape a narrow, possibly undeserved win to stop the rot and lift flagging confidence. As injured players return and we're able to rest players now and again rather than send them out onto the pitch unfit and knackered, results will probably pick up gradually.

Maybe with a couple of judicious January acquisitions, we'll eventually go on a run of the type we've been capable of down the years (maybe 31 points from 12 games, or that sort of thing) to dispel any fears about making the top four. Who knows? Perhaps we could even challenge in a knock-out tournament in the second part of the campaign. And next time out, with more decent signings, I don't think any of our rivals will be taking us lightly given the pedigree we've amply demonstrated down the years.

That's obviously a best-case scenario and it may prove to have been glimpsed through blue-tinted spectacles, but IMO it's definitely not completely fanciful (and I'm an avowed City pessimist of 49 years standing). However, I do believe we'll eventually beat these charges to the extend of avoiding any significant punishment, and I do think a year from now the on-field situation then will have us looking back at the current travails as a distant memory.

 

[alexmcity]

When I say I'm sanguine, I mean I think we can probably scrape a narrow, possibly undeserved win to stop the rot and lift flagging confidence. As injured players return and we're able to rest players now and again rather than send them out onto the pitch unfit and knackered, results will probably pick up gradually.

Maybe with a couple of judicious January acquisitions, we'll eventually go on a run of the type we've been capable of down the years (maybe 31 points from 12 games, or that sort of thing) to dispel any fears about making the top four. Who knows? Perhaps we could even challenge in a knock-out tournament in the second part of the campaign. And next time out, with more decent signings, I don't think any of our rivals will be taking us lightly given the pedigree we've amply demonstrated down the years.

That's obviously a best-case scenario and it may prove to have been glimpsed through blue-tinted spectacles, but IMO it's definitely not completely fanciful (and I'm an avowed City pessimist of 49 years standing). However, I do believe we'll eventually beat these charges to the extend of avoiding any significant punishment, and I do think a year from now the on-field situation then will have us looking back at the current travails as a distant memory.

I agree with most of that but a run of 10 wins and a draw in 12 games is likely beyond us this season, unless both Haaland and Foden start playing like top 3 players in the world and some of the midfielders rediscover their best form.

 

[Keeper!]

I do think if don’t invest in January it will have more to do with Pep having a change of heart than any misgivings about the case I reckon.
I do expect a spend of some significance however

I would say the total opposite, if we don't back Pep in January he could walk and I would not blame him.

The more i see of what has happened and our lack of transfer activity in the last 2-3 windows I think my view of us been not guilty may not come true. In saying that would the club sink 300M plus into a ground expansion if we thought we had done wrong?

Our intentions or lack of them in previous transfer windows is so strange and so out of character in a club that plans so much.