The Conservative Party

[bluethrunthru]

Massive own goal by the conservatives. Just highlights how inept they were when in power. Jumping on the racist card. Lowest of the low.

Badenoch has 121 MP's - allowing for the fact that MP's from other Party's may have voted against she can't even muster her Parliamentary MP's en masse to vote for her hateful culture wars - they are heading up a blind alley. As a Labour supporter I can see she has more profitable targets to aim at but this concentration on trying to out Reform the Reform Party Ltd is a fools errand - and she is a fool on an errand

 

[MillionMilesAway]

16 Conservatives didn't vote at all. None voted against.
Most notable name of a future big cheese was Braverman.
All 5 Reform voted for, along with an independent and some Northern Irish.

No Labour MPs voted for.
No LibDems voted at all.

But this was plain bad politics. No chance of winning as to do so would kill the entire bill (by parliamentary rule). Starmer even almost pleaded at PMQs with the Conservatives not to push the amendment

 

[BrianW]

message to Jenreich

I find those figures interesting, but they do suggest an uncomfortable truth - that the worst offenders are white blokes.

My bet is that most of this goes on in 'the home', with sick bastards messing with their own daughters, nieces and so on. My personal view is they should all be gassed, but it's fatuous to think it's all down the minorities, just because some people hate minorities. And you'll never solve the problem until you accept that.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Badenoch has 121 MP's - allowing for the fact that MP's from other Party's may have voted against she can't even muster her Parliamentary MP's en masse to vote for her hateful culture wars - they are heading up a blind alley. As a Labour supporter I can see she has more profitable targets to aim at but this concentration on trying to out Reform the Reform Party Ltd is a fools errand - and she is a fool on an errand

You do love your culture wars! This was political opportunism gone wrong, plain and simple.

To use a phrase beloved of Gary Neville "at this moment in time" the Tories don't stand for anything, they're in survival mode, they're opposing for opposing sake. Anything Labour is for they're against, anything Labour does they approve of is being bungled or too little too late, every passing band wagon they're on it, but they're not driving any of them and certainly not this one, Musk and Reform are.

You can despise what Musk and Reform stand for and herd all their bile under the confection of "culture wars" but that's just a left wing contrivance to belittle a bunch of stuff they've declared done. Too much has already been trousered by the liberal left in the inevitable and unstoppable march of progressivism, that there can be any going back, no revisionism, no introspection, no reflection and under no circumstances any reversal. If something goes wrong, if there's any resistance, it must be labelled culture wars and thereby relegated to nothing but reactionary nonsense, insignificant, not worthy of serious consideration, those who disagree are nothing but haters and racists. Except this insignificant culture wars stuff has just propelled Trump and Musk into the White House, it looks like it's going to parachute Le Pen into the Élysée Palace and god knows what'll it'll do in Germany.

Everywhere social democracy is hopelessly tying to counter this and everywhere it is in crisis, it can't forge a social contract with the people anymore because it no longer speaks their language. In the absence of ideas that have any traction whatsoever with what was once considered their natural constituency, establishment social democrats fall back on the old Clinton adage "it's the economy stupid" and that's what Starmer has done, he's bet the house on growth, his hope is all this "culture wars" stuff will go away if folk have more money in their pocket. Even outliers like Sanders and Corbyn babble on about this, all this conflict in society is nothing more than the consequence of fat cat capitalists Squid Gaming the masses to fight for crumbs.

Politically you and I have a lot in common, I'm a bit older than you I think and of course that's supposed to mean I've moved to the right, but I haven't, if anything I despise the right more today than in my youth, but what I have done is fallen out of love with the left, the unthinking dogma at its extremities and the cowardice and flabbiness at its centre.

 

[Damocles]

I find those figures interesting, but they do suggest an uncomfortable truth - that the worst offenders are white blokes.

My bet is that most of this goes on in 'the home', with sick bastards messing with their own daughters, nieces and so on. My personal view is they should all be gassed, but it's fatuous to think it's all down the minorities, just because some people hate minorities. And you'll never solve the problem until you accept that.

I think you missed the Community Note

 

[meltonblue]

I think you missed the Community Note

View attachment 142540

Perfect example of where community notes don’t work as it’s clearly made up. The source material doesn’t corroborate at all.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Perfect example of where community notes don’t work as it’s clearly made up. The source material doesn’t corroborate at all.

Yeah, but really facts don’t interest those who are looking for something other.

 

[Vic]

another **** takes to the stage - they are never getting re-elected

Is that the same Liz Truss who sent a cease and desist letter about her wrecking the economy?

 

[Vic]

Culture wars is a made up phrase progressives use in order to not talk about a whole bunch of unrelated, disparate stuff, that they've already declared as absolute, irrevocable, done, dusted, and cast in stone in their image. They've co-opted everyday words to mean whatever they say they mean and where that's not possible they've created a whole new subset of words and phrases to articulate their dogma.

You think culture wars is a made up right wing thing?

Post something where you question multiculturalism, or gender ideology, or intersectionality, or DEI and look who fires the shots, it won't be from the right.

Compliance isn't just an authoritarian right wing tool, for the most part the right don't give a fuck what you think, as long as it doesn't threaten what they really want, power.

But the left do care what you think, I know it's a cliche, but 1984 wasn't a critique of the right.

"
Post something where you question multiculturalism, or gender ideology, or intersectionality, or DEI and look who fires the shots, it won't be from the right"

Er - wouldn't the posts questioning progressive views count as the first shots in a culture war?

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

I find those figures interesting, but they do suggest an uncomfortable truth - that the worst offenders are white blokes.

My bet is that most of this goes on in 'the home', with sick bastards messing with their own daughters, nieces and so on. My personal view is they should all be gassed, but it's fatuous to think it's all down the minorities, just because some people hate minorities. And you'll never solve the problem until you accept that.

These figures are shocking. But it would be interesting to know if there truly is as big a problem with non white grooming networks by providing that data - ie how many of the victims were violated by gangs?

 

[BrianW]

Culture wars are nothing new.

See this.

Comrade Bismarck was of course noted for his far-left views.

 

[Vic]

You do love your culture wars! This was political opportunism gone wrong, plain and simple.

To use a phrase beloved of Gary Neville "at this moment in time" the Tories don't stand for anything, they're in survival mode, they're opposing for opposing sake. Anything Labour is for they're against, anything Labour does they approve of is being bungled or too little too late, every passing band wagon they're on it, but they're not driving any of them and certainly not this one, Musk and Reform are.

You can despise what Musk and Reform stand for and herd all their bile under the confection of "culture wars" but that's just a left wing contrivance to belittle a bunch of stuff they've declared done. Too much has already been trousered by the liberal left in the inevitable and unstoppable march of progressivism, that there can be any going back, no revisionism, no introspection, no reflection and under no circumstances any reversal. If something goes wrong, if there's any resistance, it must be labelled culture wars and thereby relegated to nothing but reactionary nonsense, insignificant, not worthy of serious consideration, those who disagree are nothing but haters and racists. Except this insignificant culture wars stuff has just propelled Trump and Musk into the White House, it looks like it's going to parachute Le Pen into the Élysée Palace and god knows what'll it'll do in Germany.

Everywhere social democracy is hopelessly tying to counter this and everywhere it is in crisis, it can't forge a social contract with the people anymore because it no longer speaks their language. In the absence of ideas that have any traction whatsoever with what was once considered their natural constituency, establishment social democrats fall back on the old Clinton adage "it's the economy stupid" and that's what Starmer has done, he's bet the house on growth, his hope is all this "culture wars" stuff will go away if folk have more money in their pocket. Even outliers like Sanders and Corbyn babble on about this, all this conflict in society is nothing more than the consequence of fat cat capitalists Squid Gaming the masses to fight for crumbs.

Politically you and I have a lot in common, I'm a bit older than you I think and of course that's supposed to mean I've moved to the right, but I haven't, if anything I despise the right more today than in my youth, but what I have done is fallen out of love with the left, the unthinking dogma at its extremities and the cowardice and flabbiness at its centre.

Is "culture wars" really a left wing confection, or a phrase invented by the right?

 

[BrianW]

These figures are shocking. But it would be interesting to know if there truly is as big a problem with non white grooming networks by providing that data - ie how many of the victims were violated by gangs?

I imagine the data are very complex and would need to be interpreted by persons with full knowledge of the issue and access to the full facts.

One factor might be that there is a bias in who is prosecuted. Or indeed, that some crimes of this kind are easier to prosecute than others. My guess is that, as with rape, some of these crimes are never prosecuted at all. Therefore, the perpetrators get away with it.

I am uncomfortable with the delusion that only Pakistani grooming gangs are the problem. Clearly, it's a much broader issue. And indeed, in Walsall there was a white Aryan grooming gang that somehow Reform and Mr Musk seem not to be exercised about.

Where I seem to differ from many people is that I want all these sick bastards dealt with, not just the ones with brown skins and an attachment to Allah.

 

[The perfect fumble]

"
Post something where you question multiculturalism, or gender ideology, or intersectionality, or DEI and look who fires the shots, it won't be from the right"

Er - wouldn't the posts questioning progressive views count as the first shots in a culture war?

No, at least it shouldn't.

Say you have a point of view that I disagree with, we post back and forth, trade ideas, argue and what not, and we meet in the middle, or agree to disagree, or tell each other to sally forth and procreate, that's par for the course.

Say you have a point of view that I disagree with, and I refuse to address it, instead I go straight to ad hominem, I accuse you of being hateful, a bad faith actor driven by ulterior motives, I question your morality, your character, your intellect and report you to the mods, that's culture wars.

I took your point of view, shoved it into the file named culture wars, and that gave me an automatic right not to address it and the green light to attack you..

Is "culture wars" really a left wing confection, or a phrase invented by the right?

In modern political discourse the phrase is used almost exclusively by the left.

How about this...

If I criticise diversity, equity, and inclusion, that's culture wars, you criticise the institution of the monarchy, that's not.

Why is that?

Or how about this...

wouldn't the posts questioning progressive views count as the first shots in a culture war?

Why would questioning certain aspects of progressivism be anything other than questioning certain aspects of progressivism? This thread questions conservatism page after page, what makes questioning progressivism the first shots in a culture war, but questioning conservatism is not?

I'm cheating here, the answer in intersectionality.

"Intersectionality is a metaphor for understanding the ways that multiple forms of inequality or disadvantage sometimes compound themselves and create obstacles that often are not understood among conventional ways of thinking."

In other words, progressives exclusively hold the rights to see past these "conventional ways of thinking" so only they get to define who the disadvantaged are, and why they're disadvantaged and by definition who are the oppressors, consequently only they can defend the weak and powerless.

So clearly any criticism of progressives or progressivism is not an attack on their ideals, but an attack on those they defend, the weak and powerless.

Hence culture wars.

PS: It really helps if the role of oppressor is played by an old, white, straight man.

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

I imagine the data are very complex and would need to be interpreted by persons with full knowledge of the issue and access to the full facts.

One factor might be that there is a bias in who is prosecuted. Or indeed, that some crimes of this kind are easier to prosecute than others. My guess is that, as with rape, some of these crimes are never prosecuted at all. Therefore, the perpetrators get away with it.

I am uncomfortable with the delusion that only Pakistani grooming gangs are the problem. Clearly, it's a much broader issue. And indeed, in Walsall there was a white Aryan grooming gang that somehow Reform and Mr Musk seem not to be exercised about.

Where I seem to differ from many people is that I want all these sick bastards dealt with, not just the ones with brown skins and an attachment to Allah.

Well you don't differ too much from me and I usually like your posts. But what is concerning is the enabling of this. "Those who see evil but do nothing....". My politics are left wing and always have been so I am not coming from a Farage position. But like you say, there are complexities here. For example, the paedophiles who operate alone, in isolation, they are harder to spot and stop.
Then there are those operating in school, church for the BBC etc - these people are/have been raping young/little girls and boys, either alone or in networks. Would you call it out Brian if you worked at these institutions expecially if in a position of power/influence? I'd like to think you would and also that I would- but then when it's not taken seriously or ignored by the Police or social workers because they just don't fucking care enough and/or the system deems enough of these children as dispensible so don't provide the intent of resource etc - wouldn't it make you furious?
But then when there is so much evidence, not least from the victims themselves of being raped and abused in an organised way by groups of men /women (white in Walsall, Asian heritage in Rotherham and Rochdale etc). So some of these bustards have been prosecuted but many have not been. And why are the girls not believed? The block Muslim vote for Labour is well known (although events in Gaza have affected that now) so have these rapes been politicised by Councils, police etc? I don't know but would like to.
I've seen the power of this first hand back before a European election when I attended a campaign meeting by the Labour candidate who easily won the seat. He was Muslim and at this meeting, there must have been about 60 thrre of which (I counted) there were 55 out of 60 Muslim voters all sitting next to each other (in quite a big hall) but none of whom asked a question or commented other than a question on postal voting. So that block vote does exist but did that and "community harmony" over ride the need to protect our children then I think that is shameful.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Well you don't differ too much from me and I usually like your posts. But what is concerning is the enabling of this. "Those who see evil but do nothing....". My politics are left wing and always have been so I am not coming from a Farage position. But like you say, there are complexities here. For example, the paedophiles who operate alone, in isolation, they are harder to spot and stop.
Then there are those operating in school, church for the BBC etc - these people are/have been raping young/little girls and boys, either alone or in networks. Would you call it out Brian if you worked at these institutions expecially if in a position of power/influence? I'd like to think you would and also that I would- but then when it's not taken seriously or ignored by the Police or social workers because they just don't fucking care enough and/or the system deems enough of these children as dispensible so don't provide the intent of resource etc - wouldn't it make you furious?
But then when there is so much evidence, not least from the victims themselves of being raped and abused in an organised way by groups of men /women (white in Walsall, Asian heritage in Rotherham and Rochdale etc). So some of these bustards have been prosecuted but many have not been. And why are the girls not believed? The block Muslim vote for Labour is well known (although events in Gaza have affected that now) so have these rapes been politicised by Councils, police etc? I don't know but would like to.
I've seen the power of this first hand back before a European election when I attended a campaign meeting by the Labour candidate who easily won the seat. He was Muslim and at this meeting, there must have been about 60 thrre of which (I counted) there were 55 out of 60 Muslim voters all sitting next to each other (in quite a big hall) but none of whom asked a question or commented other than a question on postal voting. So that block vote does exist but did that and "community harmony" over ride the need to protect our children then I think that is shameful.

Is there actually any evidence that cases weren't pursued to protect certain communities?

Seems to be a complete myth.

 

[BrianW]

I would certainly call out any abuse if I was aware of it. I would regard that as my duty. As a citizen, and even more, if I held an office, as an office holder.

Girls are not believed due to misogyny in society that goes way back. There's a persistent attitude held by many men - and even some women - that girls and women 'ask for it' if they do certain things. In fact, some men still think that if they buy a woman a few drinks, or a meal, they are 'entitled' to sex as a quid pro quo. Dare I say it, there are even females who think this is OK? This is one reason why rape, in general, is hard to prosecute as every statistic shows.

Muslim block votes? Quite likely. Just as you get block votes from farmers, gay people, or people who live in nice semi-detached houses in the suburbs. It happens.

IF local politicians and/or officials are privileging any community, for whatever reason, they ought not to do it. The law ought to be enforced equally across the piece, and if it isn't, out of a silly and cowardly desire to avoid tensions, that is wrong. Most of all in such cases as those we are talking about. (I'm not that exercised if Muslim taxi drivers get to park on double yellows, although they shouldn't).

Having said all that, if I committed an offence, could I rely on being treated as (say) Prince Andrew or the Duke of Westminster would be in similar circumstances? Can I rely on the police to recover my property from a Travellers' encampment? Or is the application of the law imperfect?

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

Is there actually any evidence that cases weren't pursued to protect certain communities?

Seems to be a complete myth.

I think this is the point - we don't have the data/information. I'm not looking at the Musk mob but on what I hear quoted from victims and whistleblowers

 

[The perfect fumble]

I would certainly call out any abuse if I was aware of it. I would regard that as my duty. As a citizen, and even more, if I held an office, as an office holder.

Girls are not believed due to misogyny in society that goes way back. There's a persistent attitude held by many men - and even some women - that girls and women 'ask for it' if they do certain things. In fact, some men still think that if they buy a woman a few drinks, or a meal, they are 'entitled' to sex as a quid pro quo. Dare I say it, there are even females who think this is OK? This is one reason why rape, in general, is hard to prosecute as every statistic shows.

Muslim block votes? Quite likely. Just as you get block votes from farmers, gay people, or people who live in nice semi-detached houses in the suburbs. It happens.

IF local politicians and/or officials are privileging any community, for whatever reason, they ought not to do it. The law ought to be enforced equally across the piece, and if it isn't, out of a silly and cowardly desire to avoid tensions, that is wrong. Most of all in such cases as those we are talking about. (I'm not that exercised if Muslim taxi drivers get to park on double yellows, although they shouldn't).

Having said all that, if I committed an offence, could I rely on being treated as (say) Prince Andrew or the Duke of Westminster would be in similar circumstances? Can I rely on the police to recover my property from a Travellers' encampment? Or is the application of the law imperfect?

The Tories are dog whistling on this one, they want the leafy suburbs to see Labour as the party of minorities.

It's desperate stuff.

 

[Vic]

No, at least it shouldn't.

Say you have a point of view that I disagree with, we post back and forth, trade ideas, argue and what not, and we meet in the middle, or agree to disagree, or tell each other to sally forth and procreate, that's par for the course.

Say you have a point of view that I disagree with, and I refuse to address it, instead I go straight to ad hominem, I accuse you of being hateful, a bad faith actor driven by ulterior motives, I question your morality, your character, your intellect and report you to the mods, that's culture wars.

I took your point of view, shoved it into the file named culture wars, and that gave me an automatic right not to address it and the green light to attack you..



In modern political discourse the phrase is used almost exclusively by the left.

How about this...

If I criticise diversity, equity, and inclusion, that's culture wars, you criticise the institution of the monarchy, that's not.

Why is that?

Or how about this...



Why would questioning certain aspects of progressivism be anything other than questioning certain aspects of progressivism? This thread questions conservatism page after page, what makes questioning progressivism the first shots in a culture war, but questioning conservatism is not?

I'm cheating here, the answer in intersectionality.

"Intersectionality is a metaphor for understanding the ways that multiple forms of inequality or disadvantage sometimes compound themselves and create obstacles that often are not understood among conventional ways of thinking."

In other words, progressives exclusively hold the rights to see past these "conventional ways of thinking" so only they get to define who the disadvantaged are, and why they're disadvantaged and by definition who are the oppressors, consequently only they can defend the weak and powerless.

So clearly any criticism of progressives or progressivism is not an attack on their ideals, but an attack on those they defend, the weak and powerless.

Hence culture wars.

PS: It really helps if the role of oppressor is played by an old, white, straight man.

You mean an old, white, straight man like Pat Buchanan...

"There is a religious war going on in our country for the soul of America. It is a cultural war, as critical to the kind of nation we will one day be as was the Cold War itself." "The agenda [Bill] Clinton and [Hillary] Clinton would impose on America—abortion on demand, a litmus test for the Supreme Court, homosexual rights, discrimination against religious schools, women in combat units—that's change, all right. But it is not the kind of change America wants. It is not the kind of change America needs. And it is not the kind of change we can abide in a nation that we still call God's country."

The idea that the phrase "culture wars" is a left thing is crazy. It's the right fighting against things they don't like.