Middle East Conflict

Prestwich_Blue said:
To use the term 'genocidal' to describe Gaza, on Holocaust Memorial Day, is insensitive in the extreme.

I'm certainly not condoning many of the Israeli actions in Gaza but they had a right to take action, the people they were attacking used their civilians as a human shield, and there was never any intention to systematically exterminate the population of Gaza. If there had been, they could certainly have done it.

The death toll was too high but it included combatants, who made up probably 40% of the total, and there are documented instances of some of those being 'reclassified' as women and children.

Given some of the unverifiable videos and blatant propaganda constantly posted by some of the terrorist sympathisers on here, here's a different view from a respected
political group:

https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/questionable-counting/
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You literally gobbled up a document authored by this glorified 'academician'. Not bias.at.all.



And his cronies' names acknowledged in the document who colluded together to publish that document.





 
KPXBLN said:
Leaving aside whether the HJS is "respected" (given its association with Douglas Murray, Raheem Kassam, etc, I don't agree), the authors of that report don't appear to have much relevant expertise, and their methodology is dubious. For example they list a couple of examples out of tens of thousands of dead listed with the wrong age or gender, and then somehow infer that there are "thousands" of dead wrongly classified in the same way.

Here's a study from the Lancet from just a couple of weeks ago that finds, with a much more transparent and rigorous methodology, that the statistics from the health ministry are likely an undercount of the true number of victims. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)02678-3/fulltext
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On Lancet, a far better and more rigorous abductive research with gold standard epistemology and ontology. Conducted by established researchers:
  • Zeina Jamaluddine - citations (1640), i10-index (33)
  • Oona Campbell - citations (21971), i10-index (193)
  • Francesco Cecchi - citations (12248), i10-index (141)
  • TOTAL : 35,859 research cited
The funding for this research was also none. Published via peer-review Lancet of more than 30,000 peer-reviewers all over the world. Minimal bias.

------------------------------------------------

In contrast, the Henry Jackson Society conducted assumptive and conjectural methodology, with 0% epistemology and ontology. The 'researchers' were:
  • Andrew Fox - citation (0), i10-index (0)
  • Salo Aizenberg - citation (0), i10-index (0)
  • Elliot Malin - citation (0), i10-index (0)
  • Dr Mark Zlochin - citation (0), i10-index (0)
  • Patrick Schnecker - citation (0), i10-index (0)
  • Jacob Haddo - citation (0), i10-index (0)
  • Tatiana Glezer - citation (0), i10-index (0)
  • TOTAL : 0 research cited.

The HJS research was self-published by the writers, and reviewed also by the writers (ergo self-reviewed). The funding was under the Henry Jackson Society. Henry Jackson the pro-zionist who persuaded President Nixon to grant Israel with F4-Phantom jets and a large cache of munitions. President Nixon did not agree, so Henry Jackson regardless partnered with Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger (another story on its own) and sent the jets and munitions to Israel despite President Nixon not approving of it.

When Henry Jackson presented himself on stage for his race as New York City in 1972, he invited Meir Kahane with him on stage to stand together. The same Meir Kahane in 1971 (one year earlier) who demanded for the total expulsion of Palestinians in both Israel and in Palestine. That Meir Kahane.



Between The Lancet and the HJS?
 
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Here's another twist to the Henry Jackson Society

The Henry Jackson Society and the degeneration of British neoconservatism: Liberal interventionism, Islamophobia and the ‘War on Terror’​

Griffin, T., Aked, H., Miller, D., & Marusek, S. (2015). The Henry Jackson Society and the degeneration of British neoconservatism: Liberal interventionism, Islamophobia and the ‘War on Terror’.
https://purehost.bath.ac.uk/ws/port...enry_Jackson_Society_spinwatch_report_web.pdf

On HJS Funding...

There is little information available about the American Friends of HJS. The Abstraction Fund donated $10,000 to American Friends of HJS in 2011. According to the fund’s 2011 and 2012 tax reports, Nina Rosenwald, who finances the right-wing Gatestone Institute and is a former member of the National Board of AIPAC, serves as president and treasurer. In 2012, The Nation weekly journal reported that 'Rosenwald’s wealth has fuelled a rapidly emerging alliance between the proIsrael mainstream and the Islamophobic fringe.' The Abstraction Fund donates money to many Zionist organisations, including the Central Fund of Israel, a US organisation based in New York. The New York Times reported in 2010 that the Central Fund of Israel has ‘raised tens of thousands of dollars to help erect temporary structures’ in an Israeli settlement in the occupied West Bank to keep ‘the community going until officials lifted the building ban’ on further construction there. The fund also donates to the David Horowitz Freedom Centre, founded in 1988 by David Horowitz and his long-time collaborator Peter Collier. The Freedom Centre supports several neoconservative initiatives including FrontPage Magazine, Discover the Networks and Jihad Watch. In its 2011 report, the Centre for American Progress cited Horowitz and his centre as part of ‘the lifeblood of the Islamophobia network in America, providing critical funding to a clutch of right-wing think tanks that peddle hate and fear of Muslims and Islam’. More recently, the HJS appears to be intent upon further expanding its American operations. Both Alan Mendoza and Douglas Murray have spoken at several national conferences organised by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in recent years, with Murray also speaking at a local AIPAC event in Louisiana in 2012

pp. 72-73
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On UK impression of the HJS...

(...) the evolution of the HJS towards the hardline nationalism of Douglas Murray, and the accompanying marginalisation of liberal interventionists such as Marko Attila Hoare, would appear to vindicate Clark’s interpretation rather than Murphy’s. It also raises serious concerns about the society’s status as a registered charity, because according to UK government guidelines, a charity must exist for the public benefit and not for political purposes. Although the HJS continues to claim to be a bipartisan think tank as it still retains some limited support from interventionist liberals in parliament, our report illustrates that the activities of the society are distinctly neoconservative:

• Promoting a strongly pro-Israel agenda;
• Organising anti-Islam activities, focusing particularly on British Muslim students;
• Advocating a transatlantic military and security regime;

Furthermore, the evolution of HJS into a right-wing think tank also indicates that it does not exist for the public benefit when it has increasingly embraced an illiberal approach domestically towards British Muslims in particular. This trend is especially pronounced in its support for limiting the civil liberties of Muslim charities in the name of the ‘War on Terror’. The fact that HJS refuses to publish its list of donors also highlights its own illiberal tendencies. Far from promoting democracy both domestically and abroad, like the original founders intended, the society has joined the ranks of the transatlantic Islamophobia network by relying on the financial support of strident pro-Israel elites and their grant-making foundations.

p. 74
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HJS, an Islamophobic society? Yet reputable? Who would of thunk?

By the way, this conclusive research was conducted by researchers from the University of Bath and Syracuse University. Total scholars' citations 8,070. So yes, reputable scholars, reputable universities.
 
Must've been terrifying for the hostage and makes you wonder why they're being released in such an unsafe way. I can't see a ceasefire lasting another day if one of the hostages gets killed

Still though, that's probably some of the tamest footage we've seen coming out of Gaza these last 15 months. I'm sure it won't receive a disproportionate amount of coverage
 
Gobshiight said:
Must've been terrifying for the hostage and makes you wonder why they're being released in such an unsafe way. I can't see a ceasefire lasting another day if one of the hostages gets killed

Still though, that's probably some of the tamest footage we've seen coming out of Gaza these last 15 months. I'm sure it won't receive a disproportionate amount of coverage
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Hamas are clearly doing it as part of a big show and propaganda. They have the hostages at gunpoint telling them to wave to the cameras ffs.... There is absolutely no way these hostages have been treated well, the footage shows they have been terrified even to the last minute.

Also, how have they all suddenly found their uniforms?

The footage released earlier was even worse tbh,
 
You referred to both Jake Wallis Simons and Eylon Levy.

Jake Simons was previously editor of The new Jewish Chronicle until a few days ago.

Forgotten already how the new Jewish Chronicle has fabrications?



JC and HJS, are they two sides of the same coin?

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I forgot to mention Eylon Levy. But it’s all good I forgot mentioning him. He was after all fired as an Israel spokesperson for his fabrications as well.
 
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Bazzmand Show said:
Hamas are clearly doing it as part of a big show and propaganda. They have the hostages at gunpoint telling them to wave to the cameras ffs.... There is absolutely no way these hostages have been treated well, the footage shows they have been terrified even to the last minute.

Also, how have they all suddenly found their uniforms?

The footage released earlier was even worse tbh,
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Just looks like a closer angle of the other video tbh
 
I'm glad the hostages are being released. A bit to slow for my liking. Do we know how many left to go and how many still alive?
I cannot imagine how the families have had to deal with this. Not knowing if your relative is still alive, and in the hands of those savages. There are no victors here.

I hope that going forwards both sides see the need to find a peaceful solution. This needs to start with realising that this situation must never happen again.
Sadly i feel those at the top (on both sides) are too hard headed to do this. Leadership changes are a must.
 
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Gobshiight said:
Just looks like a closer angle of the other video tbh
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Yeah, but you can see the chaos / shite she was having to put up with - it's bloody awful and sad to see that even until the last minute the hostages have not been treated with a great deal of dignity.
 
fulabeer said:
I'm glad the hostages are being released. A bit to slow for my liking. Do we know how many left to go and how many still alive?
I cannot imagine how the families have had to deal with this. Not knowing if your relative is still alive, and in the hands of those savages. There are no victors here.
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Too slow. Think there's around 10'000 left with thousands still being held without charge. Dozens have died also. As you said they are fuckin savages.
 
The blue phantom said:
Too slow. Think there's around 10'000 left with thousands still being held without charge. Dozens have died also. As you said they are fuckin savages.
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I'm glad you agree.
These Muslim terrorist are savage scum. I thought there was around two hundred still held though?
I suppose they took more innocent civilians than i thought. Mind you, how these Muslim terrorist count on their fingers, they probably think they have more. Explains why the terrorist apologizers on here quote such nonsense figures and then expect people to take them seriously. (probably count on their fingers as well, because they are not very bright and have stupid agendas)
Still at least many Muslim terrorist are now dead. Deserved for hiding behind innocent Palestinians.
 
the conclusion I draw from todays scenes is Netanyahu must be scared as its clear he has failed in his aims.

Israel will not get all the hostages back - some will already be dead and I think the ceasefire will collapse before all the survivors are returned.

Hamas will not be eliminated. As has been stated from the outset you cannot bomb and burn an ideology. If you could there would be no neo-Nazi's in Germany today. Looking at todays pictures Hamas is not dead in fact I was wondering how many of those we saw today were not Hamas fighters before the Israeli attacks. I suspect that Hisbollah will be able to recruit on the back of Israeli attacks on Lebanon in the North.

So that leave Netanyahu in a hole - when the world focuses on his failure from either angle what will be face?
 
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