City launch legal action against the Premier League | Club & PL reach settlement | Proceedings dropped (p1147)

[arbabarshad]

Some thoughts on reflection about the PL's issue.

This post is a good summary of the whole issue to do with APT.

In my view, the only way APT rules can be lawfully applied if done so from here onwards rather than past 3 years. There will be too many complications even if historical shareholder loans were included.

If that is the direction taken by the PL which will be a sensible direction to take, it may mean that due to APT rules being null and void, by extension the historical RPT rules or FFP rules could be null and void and any investigations using those rules would collapse or stopped.

This seems like a check mate situation and starting fresh from now on.

Of course I may be reading the room incorrectly (not checked the details of historical rules) but I have thought this to be the most likely scenario from the time APT rules were challenged by city.

 

[danielwood5]

The allegations almost certainly amount to fraud, surely we aren't opening that one up again? The 115 case is a civil matter between two contracted parties to consider civil remedies. If it appears from the judgment that there may be a criminal case to answer there may or may not be an action in the criminal courts. The fact that there has been no criminal investigation at the moment means nothing. That's all there is to it.

Do I have to post my 2000 word analysis again? I will if provoked.

You can argue that it points towards a lack of evidence supporting a criminal action, which may or may not be true, but it means nothing conclusively. It's not worth this much discussion when we could be talking about @Didsbury Dave 's youthful adventures :)

I expect you're probably right about the accusations amounting to fraud. The point I was trying to make was that the only thing we know for 100% certain is the initial list of charges brought by the Premier League. Everything after that is pure conjecture and speculation with some people's speculation and conjecture being more worthwhile than others due to their backgrounds, contacts at the club, knowledge of similar cases, etc, etc.
It will entirely comedown to the individual persons natural optimism, pessimism, information source and bias how they digest and present what little concrete information is out there.
In short, nobody really knows what the fucks going on until after the judgment is passed down and even then people will use and twist it to present whatever story best fits their purposes.
The only thing I know for sure is that the judgment will more than likely be incomprehensible to 95% of the population and will be used and abused by all and sundry so in that vein I'll wait till people like Stefan go through it and believe their analysis rather than Simon Jordan's or Barney Ronay's.

 

[Dribble]

The Post Office is unique in that it can investigate and criminally prosecute on its own. It doesn't require a Police investigation and CPS approval for prosecution

The Police/SFO will more than likely be keeping an eye on what's going on with City, but nothing has yet been proven
As I asked in my earlier post, how many times was "no evidence" quoted in the CAS conclusions?

The PO have the right (as do we all) to bring private prosecutions. They're not the police or judiciary. They can't arrest or jail anyone. But this isn't my point.

The police are apparently investigating the PO ahead on the public inquiry. Are the police, or have they ever investigated City in respect to FFP? If not, why not? And why haven't the media ever broached this line of thought (to my knowledge)?

 

[SilverFox2]

Not completely safe, but bloody unlikely

For all we know Lord P may be an Arsenal spy and is lulling us into a sense of false security.

 

[dickie davies]

The PO have the right (as do we all) to bring private prosecutions. They're not the police or judiciary. They can't arrest or jail anyone. But this isn't my point.

The police are apparently investigating the PO ahead on the public inquiry. Are the police, or have they ever investigated City in respect to FFP? If not, why not? And why haven't the media ever broached this line of thought (to my knowledge)?

See my amended post
The Post Office does have the right to criminally prosecute
As I've said, it's already known publicly that as a minimum, there are individuals who have perjured themselves resulting in innocent people being sent to prison

Why would law enforcement investigate a club's FFP?

 

[ufo]

TBF, it's more interesting than to listen to posters dribble nonsense.

I love avacado but the seed ball inside is a big waste of space .I collect the balls to look at it and feel it while I’m eating it.

 

[danielwood5]

THANK YOU!

This is where I ended up after watching Prestwich Blue's podcast two years ago. And if what you surmise is actually the case, why are these tribunals being spoken about by the media & many on here as an existential threat to City's very existence?

Some of our fans are literally suffering mentally over the thought of City playing non-league football. We desperately need to return to a rational place, for ourselves & rival fans who only read the "City are CHEATS" headlines.

Charges - Accusations
Cases - Tribunals
Laws - Rules
Guilty - Found in Breach

On the left is the media narrative. On the right is the reality. However, many oppositions fans are actually hoping arrests & the closure of City follows, because of the hyperbolic language being used by the media.

My hope is that many of our long suffering fans begin to look at this through the only lens I think is an accurate reflection of where we actually are.

Thanks for breaking down your post in the way you have. Hopefully it'll bring comfort to our fanbase.

They're being spoken about in this way as this drives clicks, comments and newspaper purchases, in the same way that headlines of "Arctic Blasts to Batter Britian" usually means it'll be a bit parky in London.
The judgment could be either eveything City wants it to be with Masters, FSG and Levy led away in chains or the complete destruction of the club with previous trophies handed out to other clubs. In reality it won't be either of those things and will fall somewhere on the spectrum between those two outcomes, judging off past information and the information from knowledgable people it will more than likely be in City's favour with possibly some points of blame laying at City's door. In that eventuality the papers will cry "cheats!", we'll say we're exonerated and hopefully the whole sorry saga will be finally over aside from snide whisperings from the cartel and their client media.
There's really no point getting worked up about it or speculating why X,Y or Z has or hasn't happened as there's genuinely no way of anyone outside the involved parties knowing what's really going on with it all, we'll find out soon enough and take it from there. It certainly won't be the doom and gloom scenario that people outside the club are hoping for.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Who knows for sure without their pleadings but I don't believe they are writing off any APT before Nov 2024. Just because the old rules are unlawful doesn't mean the new rules cant consider historic information/deals.

Good Lord.

What a strange position to take. They want to apply rule changes passed in November 2024 retroactively to eliminate unlawfulness in 2021-2024?

I feel a hat-trick coming up.

I suppose there must be some legal justification for that position? It all seems so counter-intuitive.

 

[slbsn]

Hang on a sec, I mentioned this to you a while a back saying the rules are still unlawful as historic loans aren't considered in the calculations but your answer was "full mitigation" would be given so the PL laws will be easily passed and be lawful with a few tweaks. Why the flip flopping and what's changed

Listen mate. Don’t speak to me in your bullshit tone - you’ve been rude a million times to me. If you have a question about a point you made and a point I made in response find it (not interested in your usual misquoting) and I’ll try and explain. And if my view has changed I’ll say so. Changing a view based on facts changing is perfectly normal behaviour in the outside world.

Whatever you are referring to was presumably pre Nov 2024. And this explainer is talking about risk - risk the PL can’t afford regardless of the real world impact which I maintain will be nil due to mitigation (ie no club will be punished for doing something that wasn’t against the rules at the time through no fault of their own).

 

[BerkshireBlue]

Were postmasters not jailed previous to these current police investigations? If so, who arrested them & on what evidence?

It's now acknowledged the whole mess was flawed & filled with lies & cover-ups, but this initially got past the police.

My point is this... Irrespective of what happens when the police conclude their investigations, WE KNOW they're holding investigations into the Post Office.

That's the simple question I'm asking in regard to City. Are they, or are they not holding investigations into City? And based on the seriousness of the allegations against us, if not, why not?

The media have never sought to discuss this crucial point (to my knowledge), which would put a whole different public slant on what I consider to be a contrived witch hunt against City.

People literally think City are no different to the common criminals in Strangeways.

the answer is simple, the police et al don't have the evidence to prove a crime beyond doubt in a criminal court. No investigation is taking place because of that. A tribunal with a balance of probabilities is a different ball game and it's this that we are facing.

 

[blue for life]

When do you think Masters will resign if at all?

 

[Dribble]

See my amended post
The Post Office does have the right to criminally prosecute
As I've said, it's already known publicly that as a minimum, there are individuals who have perjured themselves resulting in innocent people being sent to prison

Why would law enforcement investigate a club's FFP?

The Post Office has the same right to initiate prosecutions as you & I do. They don't have the powers of arrest, prosecution or incarceration, but that's not my point.

We KNOW they're being investigated ahead of the public enquiry findings. Again, are City being investigated by the authorities yes or no, & if no why not seeing as what we're being accused of amounts to serious fraud, money laundering & tax evasion.

 

[slbsn]

Good Lord.

What a strange position to take. They want to apply rule changes passed in November 2024 retroactively to eliminate unlawfulness in 2021-2024?

I feel a hat-trick coming up.

I suppose there must be some legal justification for that position? It all seems so counter-intuitive.

Not sure I see it that way. They want a workable set of APT rules for ongoing assessments of PSR and City appear to want those rules to incorporate adjustments for FMV for all historic periods and may even be asking the PL to rerun 22/23 and 23/24 tests on such a basis. We simply don’t know.

But if it was just 24/25 and on with 22/23 and 23/24 interest FMVed that seems reasonable presuming fair mitigation is granted to Everton and other clubs with big interest FMV adjustments for 22/23 and 23/24 in such a scenario.

 

[GSW Blue]

When do you think Masters will resign if at all?

5 minutes after he’s told to.

 

[mad4city]

So,City challenge the PL on their illegal rules and were the ones ruining football.

Man City in danger of destroying Premier League as we know it

Club’s legal onslaught on financial rules could allow wealthiest clubs to spend without limits and kill off competition

www.telegraph.co.uk

City's owners invest £1bn or so into the club, in the process raising its value to three or four times that amount. They build a campus that is the envy of the footballing world and establish one of the to two or three academies in the sport... how could they possibly have a vested interest in the continued success of the Premier League? Clearly, they now want to destroy the league and in the process devalue everything they have spent the last 15 years creating.
Yep, makes perfect sense if you really, really think long and hard about it...
Jesus wept.
Buy a coffee.

 

[spacecadet]

A vagina.

Coochies?

 

[ballbag]

Funny that, it’s almost like most journalists don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to legal analysis and should stick to pontificating about football.

Let us know when they ever start doing that again.

 

[Dribble]

the answer is simple, the police et al don't have the evidence to prove a crime beyond doubt in a criminal court. No investigation is taking place because of that. A tribunal with a balance of probabilities is a different ball game and it's this that we are facing.

Or could it simply be that City have committed no crimes under UK or EU Law, so there's little for the police to comment on or get involved with?

This being the case, why are people thinking we're no different to the common criminals in Strangeways? This is my whole point about the media narrative.

What City are actually facing is a UEFA & PL witch hunt initiated by the G14 & cartel clubs. It's that simple from what I can gather.

 

[ufo]

Every time I read the title “ city launches legal action” I picture a rocket fired up at masters anus and see him flying into space .

 

[dickie davies]

The Post Office has the same right to initiate prosecutions as you & I do. They don't have the powers of arrest, prosecution or incarceration, but that's not my point.

We KNOW they're being investigated ahead of the public enquiry findings. Again, are City being investigated by the authorities yes or no, & if no why not seeing as what we're being accused of amounts to serious fraud, money laundering & tax evasion.

Yes they do