Russian invasion of Ukraine

grunge said:
Right, so immediate ceasing of hostilites is a given. but the voting part is the sticking point here. How does that work for the 20% of the Ukraine under Russian occupation? are you suggesting Russia will let the UN into Russian held land to monitor voting?

Seems like its just nice sentiment and no thought on the issues on how the idea will work.

The only way Ukraine get a free election at this point is Russia withdrawing entirely from Ukraine and then as you say, UN etc going in, in large numbers as inspectors to block Russian interferance.
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Christ they couldn’t block russian interference in USA and Brexit what chance Ukraine. I don’t see how this will end, Ukraine is never going to be safe unless it becomes part of NATO, I think the only way that happens and it’s slim is if they give up the territory they currently don’t have control of. Maybe in another lifetime that comes back to the Ukraine. Otherwise this could descend into ww3 a short one probably ending with Russia been battered to the point of setting off nukes.
 
The bitter reality seems to be,
war will go on,
USA will be out to become great again,
Europe have to improve support in considerable steps to financial and military levels that have to impress putin and hurt their economy,
Ukraine troops remain on their own (that's a problem)
unless foreign countries send troops to Ukraine by doing nothing else North Korea did and does.

Europe will buy US weapons and pay for intelligence and recon, we might be quite short of that I suppose?

PS: Call off World Cup 2026 in Mexico, Canada and USA, that won't end well anyway. Trump can do it alone with his friends.
Europe instead should welcome interested teams for a 2026 World Cup for Peace and Freedom and Respect.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
You strike me an an intelligent person and much of what you say there is founded in reason, but you plainly have a blind spot when it comes to Russia and much of what you have posted there is predicated on the fact that they will act in good faith when all the evidence points to the fact they will not.

You talk of ending this conflcit but what conflict are you referring to? The one Russia started in 2014, 2022, or the one they have been conducting against Europe for the entirety of this century?

Because if it’s not the latter that you are referring to then you’ve not been paying attention, and if it is the latter then if you think any deal that arises from these talks will ‘end’ that then you are hopelessly naive.

They are cunts. This is evidenced with how they treat their own and those around them.
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Bingo, you don't negotiate with these people , you take the fight to them. You up the ante.
 
grunge said:
Right, so immediate ceasing of hostilites is a given. but the voting part is the sticking point here. How does that work for the 20% of the Ukraine under Russian occupation? are you suggesting Russia will let the UN into Russian held land to monitor voting?

Seems like its just nice sentiment and no thought on the issues on how the idea will work.

The only way Ukraine get a free election at this point is Russia withdrawing entirely from Ukraine and then as you say, UN etc going in, in large numbers as inspectors to block Russian interferance.
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The last election was March 2019 with a runoff of the top two candidates in April.
The elections were recognized as free and fair by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe.
Russia’s last election was last year. Putin won his fifth term.(wouldn’t Trump love to live long enough for that). This is allowed apparently as he changed the constitution in 2020, and any terms prior to that don count.

So Putin was apparently voted in for a fifth term in Russia last year.
There was widespread fraud and worse reported internationally including other candidates dying in prison and voting in the occupied regions in Ukraine, that are now in question.

There were elections due in Ukraine last March but there is no way they can currently take place and no way while the lands are occupied.
 
ultimateharold said:
Dreamland to think those twats would honour a ceasefire let alone free and fair elections.
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in the early nineties cunts made a peace deal with Georgia during the war in Apkhazeti. Georgia withdrew all the troops from the demilitarization line. in a month time the cunts entered this area and occupied the whole region
 
Lazrov (another who should swing from a rope) reiterated their red line. No to NATO membership and no to European peacekeepers being present in Ukraine.

Quite obvious what Putin further interests in Ukraine are.

Leaves an interesting question as to what concessions Russia will offer. Fuck all would be my guess.

Sincerely hope Europe pull a rabbit out of the hat to bail Ukraine out.
 
Hgblue2 said:
There’s something that’s been bothering me about this thread for a while and now is a good time to get this off my chest.
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Most people on here prefer to give the Ukraine the choice of what to do. You think you know what's best for them?
Most people on here know their history and Russia's repeated lack of sticking to any agreement and constant lies.

I personally think you are a daft wumming ****. I just wanted to get that of my chest etc...
 
cityontheup said:
Where has this talk come from about holding an election? Why?
Let’s have a free and monitored election in Russia first shall we.
Zelensky has shown to be a Great War time leader and should get Europe’s full backing and they should tell Trump to do one
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Trump chuntered about it a few days ago, obviously having been primed by the Putinbots.
 
cityontheup said:
Where has this talk come from about holding an election? Why?
Let’s have a free and monitored election in Russia first shall we.
Zelensky has shown to be a Great War time leader and should get Europe’s full backing and they should tell Trump to do one
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It's come from russia as a way of saying Ukraine doesn't have a legitimate leader and shouldn't be involved in any peace talks. Anyone with a working brain should understand why elections cannot currently be held safely. Not only that Ukrainian constitution doesn't allow elections during an ongoing conflict.
Sad that so many including the US government are now spreading russian disinformation and making out Ukraine is being held to ransom by Zelensky.
 
Scottyboi said:
It's come from russia as a way of saying Ukraine doesn't have a legitimate leader and shouldn't be involved in any peace talks. Anyone with a working brain should understand why elections cannot currently be held safely. Not only that Ukrainian constitution doesn't allow elections during an ongoing conflict.
Sad that so many including the US government are now spreading russian disinformation and making out Ukraine is being held to ransom by Zelensky.
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Yep they said Zelensky shouldn’t be in charge becise of no elections at the UN Security Council yesterday as they spouted bollocks about having to invade because they were afraid?
 
CTID1977 said:
All you need to know about how Moscow seeks to play the Trump administration for fools.The U.S. asked russia in Riyadh for a moratorium on strikes against Ukraine’s energy infrastructure, Lavrov said. The request was rejected, he said, because russia never targeted Ukrainian energy infrastructure in the first place.

@yarotrof
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Ha ha ha ha.
Lying ****.
 
Hgblue2 said:
End all hostilities immediately. Withdraw all forces from the front lines. Involve the UN or some other neutral countries to ensure the ceasefire is being observed on both sides. Conduct a fresh election with international observers.

Just off the top of my head and I’m just some randomer on the internet, so forgive me if I don’t have a fully fleshed out proposal to end an intractable hot conflict ready to go.
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Time and time again neutral observers have reported that Russian elections were not fully transparent and had military and police interference. Why would you believe it would be any different?
 
Hgblue2 said:
End all hostilities immediately. Withdraw all forces from the front lines. Involve the UN or some other neutral countries to ensure the ceasefire is being observed on both sides. Conduct a fresh election with international observers.

Just off the top of my head and I’m just some randomer on the internet, so forgive me if I don’t have a fully fleshed out proposal to end an intractable hot conflict ready to go.
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I take it you want Russia to conduct, with international observers, a fresh election also?
 
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