Russian invasion of Ukraine

From the Russian negotiating team comments, it looks like Trump gave the Russians everything they wanted.
What a bunch of cretins Tango man and his MAGA associates are.
Unfortunately first and foremost he's a business man - guy doesn't give a shit about the World he'll leave behind for anyone (including his family)
Secondly he has some bizarre man crush on Putin - I suspect because Putin doesn't give a fuck about the World either other than rebuilding the Soviet Union
Worrying times indeed
 
a big fuck off to orange and midget cunts

Zelensky on the US-russia talks in Saudi Arabia.

“If we didn’t give in to all of putin’s ultimatums at the most difficult moment (at the beginning of 2022, when no one was helping us), then where does the feeling come from that Ukraine will give in to this now? <…> I wasn’t going to give in to russia’s ultimatums then and I’m not going to give in now.”
Zelensky is such an impressive leader.

Which of course is one of the reasons Trump wants to betray him.
 
I can see Russia for what it is and I respect that Ukraine is standing up to a bully. However, the cost to Ukraine of this response has been huge, in my opinion, unacceptably high.

So, can we just stop the fighting, start talking, and ask the Ukrainian people whether the cost is acceptable to them?

It’s all well and good people talking tough when it’s not their kids getting blown to pieces.
I think they’d rather fight than let Putin in, who will immediately ship all the fighting age men off to gulags, let his troops rape and pillage what they want, then start building up to do the rest to Europe, Russians are cunts and the sooner we deal with them the better, if they didn’t have nukes they’d be history by now.
 
I can see Russia for what it is and I respect that Ukraine is standing up to a bully. However, the cost to Ukraine of this response has been huge, in my opinion, unacceptably high.

So, can we just stop the fighting, start talking, and ask the Ukrainian people whether the cost is acceptable to them?

It’s all well and good people talking tough when it’s not their kids getting blown to pieces.

I'll ask again. How do you propose to do this in a fair and viable way?
 
I'll ask again. How do you propose to do this in a fair and viable way?
End all hostilities immediately. Withdraw all forces from the front lines. Involve the UN or some other neutral countries to ensure the ceasefire is being observed on both sides. Conduct a fresh election with international observers.

Just off the top of my head and I’m just some randomer on the internet, so forgive me if I don’t have a fully fleshed out proposal to end an intractable hot conflict ready to go.
 
I can see Russia for what it is and I respect that Ukraine is standing up to a bully. However, the cost to Ukraine of this response has been huge, in my opinion, unacceptably high.

So, can we just stop the fighting, start talking, and ask the Ukrainian people whether the cost is acceptable to them?

It’s all well and good people talking tough when it’s not their kids getting blown to pieces.
Can’t argue with the last part, but all I can do is try and put myself in the shoes of the Ukrainian people and be true to myself, and my beliefs, and if that meant me and my own having to defend our country against brutality and tyranny then I’m confident that’s what I’d do.

Let’s hope any talks are as fruitful as you suggest they might be, not just for now, but on a lasting basis.
 
Thanks for the respectful response, I have a minority opinion but I also feel I have the best interests of the Ukrainian people at heart. I want the carnage to stop and I'm baffled that this triggers people so much.

So onto the actual proposals that seem to have people so outraged.

1. Ceasefire, seems to me that if a peaceful resolution is to be found this needs to be the first step. A demonstration that both sides are willing to end the hostilities and look for a way out of the tragic loss of life. It also should create a calmer environment and hopefully help to facilitate meaningful negotiations at a later date.

2. Elections, let politicians put their ideas for ending or continuing the war in front of the Ukrainian people and seek a democratic mandate for a settlement. If we are in favour of democracy then surely attempting to find out what the people want is a good thing? I appreciate the logistical obstacles but this should be possible if the fighting has stopped and international observers are able to operate.

3. Negotiations, once the will of the Ukrainian people has been determined then substantive negotiations can take place if this is the democratically expressed will of the people. It's worth noting that if it is the will of the Ukrainian people to continue fighting then they can elect a president who advocates for this.

I understand that the majority on here have become invested in the continuation of this war so any proposals to end it will be opposed, apart from totally unrealistic aims that basically amount to a Russian capitulation which is highly unlikely to happen. So from my point of view as somebody who wants to see an end to this conflict, the proposed roadmap seems sensible enough.
Others have said it. How can there be free and fair elections under the threat of Russian attacks.
 
Thanks for the respectful response, I have a minority opinion but I also feel I have the best interests of the Ukrainian people at heart. I want the carnage to stop and I'm baffled that this triggers people so much.

So onto the actual proposals that seem to have people so outraged.

1. Ceasefire, seems to me that if a peaceful resolution is to be found this needs to be the first step. A demonstration that both sides are willing to end the hostilities and look for a way out of the tragic loss of life. It also should create a calmer environment and hopefully help to facilitate meaningful negotiations at a later date.

2. Elections, let politicians put their ideas for ending or continuing the war in front of the Ukrainian people and seek a democratic mandate for a settlement. If we are in favour of democracy then surely attempting to find out what the people want is a good thing? I appreciate the logistical obstacles but this should be possible if the fighting has stopped and international observers are able to operate.

3. Negotiations, once the will of the Ukrainian people has been determined then substantive negotiations can take place if this is the democratically expressed will of the people. It's worth noting that if it is the will of the Ukrainian people to continue fighting then they can elect a president who advocates for this.

I understand that the majority on here have become invested in the continuation of this war so any proposals to end it will be opposed, apart from totally unrealistic aims that basically amount to a Russian capitulation which is highly unlikely to happen. So from my point of view as somebody who wants to see an end to this conflict, the proposed roadmap seems sensible enough.

Finally a sensible and rational post in this whole thread.
 
this **** doesn't hide it anymore

GkEBB8aXUAA3Rie
 
All you need to know about how Moscow seeks to play the Trump administration for fools.The U.S. asked russia in Riyadh for a moratorium on strikes against Ukraine’s energy infrastructure, Lavrov said. The request was rejected, he said, because russia never targeted Ukrainian energy infrastructure in the first place.

@yarotrof
 
End all hostilities immediately. Withdraw all forces from the front lines. Involve the UN or some other neutral countries to ensure the ceasefire is being observed on both sides. Conduct a fresh election with international observers.

Just off the top of my head and I’m just some randomer on the internet, so forgive me if I don’t have a fully fleshed out proposal to end an intractable hot conflict ready to go.
Right, so immediate ceasing of hostilites is a given. but the voting part is the sticking point here. How does that work for the 20% of the Ukraine under Russian occupation? are you suggesting Russia will let the UN into Russian held land to monitor voting?

Seems like its just nice sentiment and no thought on the issues on how the idea will work.

The only way Ukraine get a free election at this point is Russia withdrawing entirely from Ukraine and then as you say, UN etc going in, in large numbers as inspectors to block Russian interferance.
 
I can see Russia for what it is and I respect that Ukraine is standing up to a bully. However, the cost to Ukraine of this response has been huge, in my opinion, unacceptably high.

So, can we just stop the fighting, start talking, and ask the Ukrainian people whether the cost is acceptable to them?

It’s all well and good people talking tough when it’s not their kids getting blown to pieces.
You simply don’t get it, do you?
 

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