Russian invasion of Ukraine

Keeper! said:
Start a war with a broken army and country (Russia) the Russian military is probably 6 months off total destruction which makes this decision of Trump even more shocking and outrageous, Putin should be destroyed once and for all.
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Sounds like you are up for the war becoming WWIII. A full blown war against a “weak” Russia and Putin doesn’t sound a great idea when it comes to the safety of millions of Europeans.
 
Manchester_lalala said:
Sounds like you are up for the war becoming WWIII. A full blown war against a “weak” Russia and Putin doesn’t sound a great idea when it comes to the safety of millions of Europeans.
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I agree. But I think there is definitely merit in the argument that arming Ukraine (a willing, fighting force) to the hilt, gives the rest of Europe the best possible chance of security. It's shit for Ukraine who fight alone, but they do it willingly in desperation for their freedom. Should it fall, and Russia move east, our contributions are going to have to increase significantly more than 0.2%, and one stray missile and we're all involved. The Poles know what's coming and are taking no chances.

While this war is a humanitarian disaster, it's been a military success for the west, watching it's old enemy deplete its forces and equipment, while having to direct it's entire economy directed into a war effort, with over 20% inflation. It's why there is no sense for what Trump is proposing, any logic would tell them to continuously allow their Military Industry drip feed weapons into eastern Ukraine and watch their enemy exhaust themselves. But the logic of course, is that Trump is deeply tied to the Kremlin, and if anybody thinks different, they're simply living on a different planet.
 
I think it's reasonable to be concerned about backing Russia into a corner. The argument for bleeding Russia seems to be predicated on the idea they'll pack up and go home once the war becomes unsustainable, but that's a big assumption.
 
mosssideblue said:
In what way?
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I am watching on BBC NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte already washing hands of Zelensky, totaly depressing but also real.

You can find reports on internet when the a White Paper was submitted to Parlament back in 2000s unclassified details about the whole Trident project. Rockets not owned but leased from Americans, integrated into British army as a part of pure NATO deterrent, most of the components and targeting software designed and property of US. And then to the very submarines that are basically US Ohio class, maintained and rearmed on the US east coast, etc.....But it is all in who and how it reads it. Compare that to French nuclear umbrella.

And also just for reference, jump back to August last year when Ukraine army launched the offensive in Kursk area. After some effort in persuading us we allowed them using Storm Shadow targeting certain sites inside Russia. But Biden withheld permission allowing them using US GPS targeting system including maps that were integrated within SS, so they were useless to Ukrainians for fine grained targeting, etc.
 
When these things happen, people and countries really do show you their true colours. Whether ideological, political or just money, believe them when they tell you who they are.

Oh, and never forget.
 
SamBlue said:
I am watching on BBC NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte already washing hands of Zelensky, totaly depressing but also real.

You can find reports on internet when the a White Paper was submitted to Parlament back in 2000s unclassified details about the whole Trident project. Rockets not owned but leased from Americans, integrated into British army as a part of pure NATO deterrent, most of the components and targeting software designed and property of US. And then to the very submarines that are basically US Ohio class, maintained and rearmed on the US east coast, etc.....But it is all in who and how it reads it. Compare that to French nuclear umbrella.

And also just for reference, jump back to August last year when Ukraine army launched the offensive in Kursk area. After some effort in persuading us we allowed them using Storm Shadow targeting certain sites inside Russia. But Biden withheld permission allowing them using US GPS targeting system including maps that were integrated within SS, so they were useless to Ukrainians for fine grained targeting, etc.
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What's he said to make you say that?

From what I gather I think he's trying to be a middle man and repair relations with trump. Being leader of NATO he has no choice really but to try and work with both.
 
SamBlue said:
I am watching on BBC NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte already washing hands of Zelensky, totaly depressing but also real.

You can find reports on internet when the a White Paper was submitted to Parlament back in 2000s unclassified details about the whole Trident project. Rockets not owned but leased from Americans, integrated into British army as a part of pure NATO deterrent, most of the components and targeting software designed and property of US. And then to the very submarines that are basically US Ohio class, maintained and rearmed on the US east coast, etc.....But it is all in who and how it reads it. Compare that to French nuclear umbrella.

And also just for reference, jump back to August last year when Ukraine army launched the offensive in Kursk area. After some effort in persuading us we allowed them using Storm Shadow targeting certain sites inside Russia. But Biden withheld permission allowing them using US GPS targeting system including maps that were integrated within SS, so they were useless to Ukrainians for fine grained targeting, etc.
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Sorry Sam but your spiel on Trident ( other than the US leasing the missiles is absolute nonsense
 
mosssideblue said:
Sorry Sam but your spiel on Trident ( other than the US leasing the missiles is absolute nonsense
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As I said, it is not my spiel, just google it and read a white paper presented to Parlament, year was 2006 or 2007. Of course there are different interpretations depending how you , me or somebody else want to contextualize it into their narrative.
 
SamBlue said:
As I said, it is not my spiel, just google it and read a white paper presented to Parlament, year was 2006 or 2007. Of course there are different interpretations depending how you , me or somebody else want to contextualize it into their narrative.
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No narrative, and I certainly don’t need Google to educate me on our nuclear deterrent
 
SamBlue said:
I am watching on BBC NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte already washing hands of Zelensky, totaly depressing but also real.

You can find reports on internet when the a White Paper was submitted to Parlament back in 2000s unclassified details about the whole Trident project. Rockets not owned but leased from Americans, integrated into British army as a part of pure NATO deterrent, most of the components and targeting software designed and property of US. And then to the very submarines that are basically US Ohio class, maintained and rearmed on the US east coast, etc.....But it is all in who and how it reads it. Compare that to French nuclear umbrella.

And also just for reference, jump back to August last year when Ukraine army launched the offensive in Kursk area. After some effort in persuading us we allowed them using Storm Shadow targeting certain sites inside Russia. But Biden withheld permission allowing them using US GPS targeting system including maps that were integrated within SS, so they were useless to Ukrainians for fine grained targeting, etc.
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His approach was nothing like the previous head of NATO from what he said I felt he hadn’t even seen the Trump and Vance set up.
He was aggressive about the Zelenskyy I don’t really understand what he was supposed to do now. It’s the Trump people not playing the game because he wouldn’t sign the deal.
 
WT86 said:
I think it's reasonable to be concerned about backing Russia into a corner. The argument for bleeding Russia seems to be predicated on the idea they'll pack up and go home once the war becomes unsustainable, but that's a big assumption.
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No one’s invading Russia. They can leave Ukraine at any point of their choosing you know.
 
Wayneclarkemunchescarrots said:
Last night was staged , a co-ordinated ambush which appeals to the millions of maga twats . Trumps ego , with a puppet like Vance and a huge political backing from home , makes him not far behind putin for lack of stability for world peace .
He is a **** of the highest order and destroyed 80 years of mutual safety net of world security in a month
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Sit tight and brace yourself.......this is small fry compared to what may well be coming down the pipeline.
 
“Trump didn’t use any of the $1.6 billion approved by Congress over 4 years to aid Ukraine
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in his 1st term. Trump didn’t give Javelins; he allowed Ukraine to order some then didn’t allow them to be on the frontThe sale was 37 Javelin launchers and 210 missiles for $47 million”

Ukraine Battle map posted this piece of information about Javelin launchers
 
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