Open Letter on Season Tickets and Pricing | Club announce price freeze on "general admission season tickets & PL match tickets" for next season (p163)

M18CTID said:
City charge more than £640 for the vast majority of adult season tickets already. What SHB was saying is that he can't see the club adding around 50% to the price of the current cheapest season tickets and making them £640 or £700
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I get that, i just dont necessarily agree. Maybe a token handful will remain to keep the headline numbers down but basically what I was saying is that the lack of communication from the club and lack of an AGM is likely because there is a chunky rise coming around the corner. Otherwise theyd just have the agm and get it done as the bad PR is not worth it from what they are doing now.
 
wearethesouthstand said:
Hi Col, Dante from 1894. This post is making you come across like a very bitter old man.. which of course you are not !!!

Over the last few years you've swung from praising 1894 to spreading misinformation and back again. So we're not sure you have any actual real strong beliefs on anything in particular however...

Some facts to respond to your hyberbole.

Who elected you - Our members did. A vote now happens every year. Next one will be the end of May. A digital vote. Anyone can join at anytime. 2,600 members. Not a show of hands and bussing friends in to swing a vote but a real vote. Our rules & regulations have gone to members over the years. Anyone can come through and put themselves forward but they understand they need to be someone who is involved with creating displays, helping to fund displays, can negotiate with the club and articulate through the media. So it's likely any potential successor would come from within based on the way we work.

Do you speak to all your members - yes through monthly mailers and we reply to all private messages through email, twitter, facebook and instagram. So actually that means we are acting on behalf of fans' wishes not just doing what we want. We'd outlined before when seeking a mandate that we ask for their trust to represent them on policy, that's why they elect us and members have the choice to fill in or not fill in a survey. Members understand that when a quick reaction is needed, we have that mandate already. We've literally conducted a survey on behalf of supporters to pass onto Citymatters and the club. I can't actually see the problem with that given no-one else can be bothered doing one? The OSC doesn't speak to all it's members as last night proved, Citymatters doesn't speak to everyone who elected them individually about each issue but there is a leadership team of 15 - which we are hoping to grow to 20 by the summer. They are elected and key decisions are decided there.

You've decided not to fill in the survey - Don't think anyone will lose any sleep over that. The questions were an extension of the position we came to in the start of the season when we commented on the club's North Stand plans - ie we wanted the club to confirm prices and to confirm that full season tickets would be offered - at the same rate we have in the stadium now ie circa 72%. The club last week finally gave an update on the number of season ticket holders. This allowed us to ask the question specifically on whether fans wanted to see more, less or the same number of season ticket holders - following feedback that non-City fans in the stadium is now making the stadium unsafe. It's not rocket science to understand the line of questions. Citymatters will have a meeting with the club - hopefully - they asked on the record in october that season cards be re-introduced and it's to give them a further mandate to say nothing has changed, fans want this and do not want to see a reduction in season ticket holders to below 60% - which is what will happen if the capacity increases by 8,000 without any new season ticket cards being made available. Not sure what is difficult to understand about that.

Constant Demonisation of OSC and Citymatters - We're actually on a teams call with Citymatters tonight including Kev from the OSC. at 7pm. maybe someone needs to tell them they are being demonised. We have never slagged off the OSC publicly, however we have had criticism from some of their branch leaders over the community shield boycott and other issues ie displays they didn't like. We don't believe City fans like to see supporters groups arguing, certainly not in public. We've just done a mini-tour of branches and speak to OSC branch leaders all over the UK and indeed the world. Most of us in 1894 have been/ are part of branches anyway and recognise the benefits that organisation has provided over the years. A lot of our members are members of OSC branches also. We remember Alan Potter and Frank Horrocks and understand what OSC can and can’t say or do at times.

Citymatters was set up by the club because they had to set it up no because they want to. Looking at the guidance in the new football supporters bill the current set up does not meet the requirements of a Fan Advisory board and the club has been told this. The chair of citymatters actually pushed for reform from within. The current chair of citymatters reached out to us a couple of years ago to see if we can support them, help to make public statements as they were getting nowhere privately a lot of the time. We are happy to do so. We encourage them and ask fans to contact them direct prior to meetings so they have a full understanding of what fans want, so they are not caught out. We have offered advice on PR and on how to be more transparent and visible including making sure the club's version of minutes are challenged. We think in the last couple of years the overall impression of Citymatters has improved. Of course the perception that it is not working comes from root causes. The club's own attitude towards the group, blindsiding them and ignoring their decisions such as last march, the fact someone received thousands of votes right at the first election in 2018 (and that person was then not allowed onto the citymatters board) - you were involved on the board at that time and no doubt kept quiet about democracy being thrown in the bin. Ciymatters members themselves have tripped themselves up ie not signing letters or statements when a majority has voted in favour. OSC members from all over he world shared and responded to our survey, from America, Japan, India, Poland, Greece, Ireland, Belgium and more. You are just talking rubbish. Fans trust us because we have been transparent and consistent over the years and turned to us because they saw no one else doing it and felt many of the citymatters meetings with the club were shrouded in secrecy.

Really only 2 or 3 from Citymatters do any public commenting. 32k in the OSC and everything left to Kev, surely others there can give him a hand? We have 8 or 9 that regularly go on podcasts, youtube channels and do all sorts of media, tv, radio etc , we don't chase the media they chase us and ask for a comment. We are all for getting some power - and putting that power in the hands of fans - not having power for our own benefit.

The protest at the Arsenal game last year went ahead with the backing of these other bodies. There's constant communication going on behind the scenes. Unlike in your era, there are far fewer leaks.

You may have noticed that we are quite busy organising displays ! You may well look very silly in due course with your ramblings that's all I will say...

Stand on the sidelines and throw mud - Just grow up Col. It's a shame you ballsed up the trust last time and also the amount of calls and messages I got from members of Citymatters who felt you were a loose cannon whilst you were on the panel - perhaps I can understand why now. Who can forget you slagging off 1894 one day back in 2021 and the very next day asking for a job on the committee after you were challenged as to whether you and others on Citymatters panel were prepared to resign over the super league, i'm sorry you have to work your way up first mate, we can't provide vehicles for egos just because they are big.
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I went a bit OTT in my criticism earlier and I'm happy to row back on that and but at the end of the day you started as an unofficial group who create banners and try to get a bit of atmosphere going. I'm sure you'll agree that isn't a simple task even when no one is saying we want less atmosphere, not more.

And I didn't "ask for a job on the committee" iirc. I already had my hands full with City Matters and other outside interests so certainly wasn't looking for anything else to occupy my time. I offered to help you set up a Supporters' Trust but you didn't think that outcome was appropriate at that time and wanted to carry on as you are. That was your decision and I didn't push it. I'm pleased to hear you're thinking of changing your mind. It's ridiculous that we're the only one of the bigger clubs (and many of the smaller ones) that doesn't have one.

What has pissed me off is that the attitude of some of your representatives on here seems to be "if you don't agree with us, then you're in the wrong". That's not at all helpful for an organisation looking to represent a wide group of fans. You even just demonstrated that behaviour yourself when you talked about me being a 'loose cannon". My experience on City Matters (and on the Supporters Trust) was that you can't please all the people all the time and people will disagree with your views or actions. That's the way of the world when you represent a group of people.

It's the easiest job in the world to stand on the sidelines and denigrate someone else's efforts and tell them they should do something else. The Matchday thread is proof of that. The problem with 1894 is it seems to be a bit of an echo chamber of the "four legs good, two legs bad" type currently. You can talk about 'tourists' in home areas as a bad thing and everyone agrees, even though it's a very nuanced issue with no easy solutions. If you want to be represent a wider group you'll need to be able to deal with grey areas like this and will have to make choices that aren't to everyone's taste. I sometimes wonder if that's what's putting you off.

I've said before that I respect anyone who gets off their arse and does something. I'm supportive of most of your aims but not necessarily your way of achieving some of them, which I believe risk descending into demagoguery.
 
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Prestwich_Blue said:
I went a bit OTT in my criticism earlier and I'm happy to row back on that and but at the end of the day you started as an unofficial group who create banners and try to get a bit of atmosphere going. I'm sure you'll agree that isn't a simple task even when no one is saying we want less atmosphere, not more.

And I didn't "ask for a job on the committee" iirc. I already had my hands full with City Matters and other outside interests so certainly wasn't looking for anything else to occupy my time. I offered to help you set up a Supporters' Trust but you didn't think that outcome was appropriate at that time and wanted to carry on as you are. That was your decision and I didn't push it. I'm pleased to hear you're thinking of changing your mind. It's ridiculous that we're the only one of the bigger clubs (and many of the smaller ones) that doesn't have one.

What has pissed me off is that the attitude of some of your representatives on here seems to be "if you don't agree with us, then you're in the wrong". That's not at all helpful for an organisation looking to represent a wide group of fans. You even just demonstrated that behaviour yourself when you talked about me being a 'loose cannon". My experience on City Matters (and on the Supporters Trust) was that you can't please all the people all the time and people will disagree with your views or actions. That's the way of the world when you represent a group of people.

It's the easiest job in the world to stand on the sidelines and denigrate someone else's efforts and tell them they should do something else. The Matchday thread is proof of that. The problem with 1894 is it seems to be a bit of an echo chamber of the "four legs good, two legs bad" type currently. You can talk about 'tourists' in home areas as a bad thing and everyone agrees, even though it's a very nuanced issue with no easy solutions. If you want to be represent a wider group you'll need to be able to deal with grey areas like this and will have to make choices that aren't to everyone's taste. I sometimes wonder if that's what's putting you off.

I've said before that I respect anyone who gets off their arse and does something. I'm supportive of most of your aims but not necessarily your way of achieving some of them, which I believe risk descending into demagoguery.
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Drop us a DM Col we can have a phone call in a few days. The reps on here are usually under fire and normally are here to set the record straight and correct misapprehensions about the group and policies.

Anything officially announced usually comes via our twitter page.

No problem and thanks for rowing back a bit Col.
 
The masses will never win when there's plenty of people high up in the OSC who bob along quite nicely.

Some on this thread can see it's not working correctly but are happy to stick to KP and his panel.

Others on here are a bit of a disgrace with their comments about the rank & file blues.

No I'm not in a OSC nor want to apply for CM but, my comments stand and I'm sure many agree.

© The semi silent majority who would quite love a demo after a game.
 
blue b4 the moon said:
The masses will never win when there's plenty of people high up in the OSC who bob along quite nicely.

Some on this thread can see it's not working correctly but are happy to stick to KP and his panel.

Others on here are a bit of a disgrace with their comments about the rank & file blues.

No I'm not in a OSC nor want to apply for CM but, my comments stand and I'm sure many agree.

© The semi silent majority who would quite love a demo after a game.
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We’ve not had a Swales Out style demo at the reception of the ‘new’ ground yet. We need to break it in. Dodging out of control police horses, flying traffic cones and metal barriers.
 
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TheGhost said:
We’ve not a Swales Out style demo at the reception of the ‘new’ ground yet. We need to break it in. Dodging out of control police horses, flying traffic cones and metal barriers.
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And flying bricks. One that narrowly missed my head, thankfully.
 
TheGhost said:
We’ve not a Swales Out style demo at the reception of the ‘new’ ground yet. We need to break it in. Dodging out of control police horses, flying traffic cones and metal barriers.
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If we could keep the “Swales Out” out of it I’d be obliged!
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I went a bit OTT in my criticism earlier and I'm happy to row back on that and but at the end of the day you started as an unofficial group who create banners and try to get a bit of atmosphere going. I'm sure you'll agree that isn't a simple task even when no one is saying we want less atmosphere, not more.

And I didn't "ask for a job on the committee" iirc. I already had my hands full with City Matters and other outside interests so certainly wasn't looking for anything else to occupy my time. I offered to help you set up a Supporters' Trust but you didn't think that outcome was appropriate at that time and wanted to carry on as you are. That was your decision and I didn't push it. I'm pleased to hear you're thinking of changing your mind. It's ridiculous that we're the only one of the bigger clubs (and many of the smaller ones) that doesn't have one.

What has pissed me off is that the attitude of some of your representatives on here seems to be "if you don't agree with us, then you're in the wrong". That's not at all helpful for an organisation looking to represent a wide group of fans. You even just demonstrated that behaviour yourself when you talked about me being a 'loose cannon". My experience on City Matters (and on the Supporters Trust) was that you can't please all the people all the time and people will disagree with your views or actions. That's the way of the world when you represent a group of people.

It's the easiest job in the world to stand on the sidelines and denigrate someone else's efforts and tell them they should do something else. The Matchday thread is proof of that. The problem with 1894 is it seems to be a bit of an echo chamber of the "four legs good, two legs bad" type currently. You can talk about 'tourists' in home areas as a bad thing and everyone agrees, even though it's a very nuanced issue with no easy solutions. If you want to be represent a wider group you'll need to be able to deal with grey areas like this and will have to make choices that aren't to everyone's taste. I sometimes wonder if that's what's putting you off.

I've said before that I respect anyone who gets off their arse and does something. I'm supportive of most of your aims but not necessarily your way of achieving some of them, which I believe risk descending into demagoguery.
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Your comment about “if you don’t agree with us then you’re in the wrong” lol - I assume you are being ironic?
 
No surprise from me that the OSC has declined to support the City Matters boycott, think it was pretty clear from their lack of appearance on the initial open letter that they're not aligned in thought with the other fan groups, which is a great shame as you would imagine supporters branches (which are defined by geography) are about community.

For me it's pretty simple - the open letter is encouraging tickets to be more affordable and creating season tickets for new generations of City fans to the stadium, if you don't want to put your name to that sentiment that's fine but you can be expecting someone like myself to be cynical about your motivations.

You would imagine the new season ticket prices will be released next week, it was during the March international break last year, I'd say if there's ever going to be a good time for some sort of protest it would be this weekend, which I would welcome albeit I appreciate that this is quite late in the day to organise.
 
blue b4 the moon said:
The masses will never win when there's plenty of people high up in the OSC who bob along quite nicely.

Some on this thread can see it's not working correctly but are happy to stick to KP and his panel.

Others on here are a bit of a disgrace with their comments about the rank & file blues.

No I'm not in a OSC nor want to apply for CM but, my comments stand and I'm sure many agree.

© The semi silent majority who would quite love a demo after a game.
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I’m assuming you are a member of 1894 pal? For the record I am not in an OSC, I did apply for CM but was rejected out of hand by the club (probably not helped by referring to myself as effectively a legacy fan) but I am in complete agreement with what 1894 do and the way they/you do it. You try and do stuff about the shit atmosphere and try and bring the club to account for shit like the north stand, prices, new season tickets etc etc. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, I think you speak for the majority of us
 
wearethesouthstand said:
Hi Col, Dante from 1894. This post is making you come across like a very bitter old man.. which of course you are not !!!

Over the last few years you've swung from praising 1894 to spreading misinformation and back again. So we're not sure you have any actual real strong beliefs on anything in particular however...

Some facts to respond to your hyberbole.

Who elected you - Our members did. A vote now happens every year. Next one will be the end of May. A digital vote. Anyone can join at anytime. 2,600 members. Not a show of hands and bussing friends in to swing a vote but a real vote. Our rules & regulations have gone to members over the years. Anyone can come through and put themselves forward but they understand they need to be someone who is involved with creating displays, helping to fund displays, can negotiate with the club and articulate through the media. So it's likely any potential successor would come from within based on the way we work.

Do you speak to all your members - yes through monthly mailers and we reply to all private messages through email, twitter, facebook and instagram. So actually that means we are acting on behalf of fans' wishes not just doing what we want. We'd outlined before when seeking a mandate that we ask for their trust to represent them on policy, that's why they elect us and members have the choice to fill in or not fill in a survey. Members understand that when a quick reaction is needed, we have that mandate already. We've literally conducted a survey on behalf of supporters to pass onto Citymatters and the club. I can't actually see the problem with that given no-one else can be bothered doing one? The OSC doesn't speak to all it's members as last night proved, Citymatters doesn't speak to everyone who elected them individually about each issue but there is a leadership team of 15 - which we are hoping to grow to 20 by the summer. They are elected and key decisions are decided there.

You've decided not to fill in the survey - Don't think anyone will lose any sleep over that. The questions were an extension of the position we came to in the start of the season when we commented on the club's North Stand plans - ie we wanted the club to confirm prices and to confirm that full season tickets would be offered - at the same rate we have in the stadium now ie circa 72%. The club last week finally gave an update on the number of season ticket holders. This allowed us to ask the question specifically on whether fans wanted to see more, less or the same number of season ticket holders - following feedback that non-City fans in the stadium is now making the stadium unsafe. It's not rocket science to understand the line of questions. Citymatters will have a meeting with the club - hopefully - they asked on the record in october that season cards be re-introduced and it's to give them a further mandate to say nothing has changed, fans want this and do not want to see a reduction in season ticket holders to below 60% - which is what will happen if the capacity increases by 8,000 without any new season ticket cards being made available. Not sure what is difficult to understand about that.

Constant Demonisation of OSC and Citymatters - We're actually on a teams call with Citymatters tonight including Kev from the OSC. at 7pm. maybe someone needs to tell them they are being demonised. We have never slagged off the OSC publicly, however we have had criticism from some of their branch leaders over the community shield boycott and other issues ie displays they didn't like. We don't believe City fans like to see supporters groups arguing, certainly not in public. We've just done a mini-tour of branches and speak to OSC branch leaders all over the UK and indeed the world. Most of us in 1894 have been/ are part of branches anyway and recognise the benefits that organisation has provided over the years. A lot of our members are members of OSC branches also. We remember Alan Potter and Frank Horrocks and understand what OSC can and can’t say or do at times.

Citymatters was set up by the club because they had to set it up no because they want to. Looking at the guidance in the new football supporters bill the current set up does not meet the requirements of a Fan Advisory board and the club has been told this. The chair of citymatters actually pushed for reform from within. The current chair of citymatters reached out to us a couple of years ago to see if we can support them, help to make public statements as they were getting nowhere privately a lot of the time. We are happy to do so. We encourage them and ask fans to contact them direct prior to meetings so they have a full understanding of what fans want, so they are not caught out. We have offered advice on PR and on how to be more transparent and visible including making sure the club's version of minutes are challenged. We think in the last couple of years the overall impression of Citymatters has improved. Of course the perception that it is not working comes from root causes. The club's own attitude towards the group, blindsiding them and ignoring their decisions such as last march, the fact someone received thousands of votes right at the first election in 2018 (and that person was then not allowed onto the citymatters board) - you were involved on the board at that time and no doubt kept quiet about democracy being thrown in the bin. Ciymatters members themselves have tripped themselves up ie not signing letters or statements when a majority has voted in favour. OSC members from all over he world shared and responded to our survey, from America, Japan, India, Poland, Greece, Ireland, Belgium and more. You are just talking rubbish. Fans trust us because we have been transparent and consistent over the years and turned to us because they saw no one else doing it and felt many of the citymatters meetings with the club were shrouded in secrecy.

Really only 2 or 3 from Citymatters do any public commenting. 32k in the OSC and everything left to Kev, surely others there can give him a hand? We have 8 or 9 that regularly go on podcasts, youtube channels and do all sorts of media, tv, radio etc , we don't chase the media they chase us and ask for a comment. We are all for getting some power - and putting that power in the hands of fans - not having power for our own benefit.

The protest at the Arsenal game last year went ahead with the backing of these other bodies. There's constant communication going on behind the scenes. Unlike in your era, there are far fewer leaks.

You may have noticed that we are quite busy organising displays ! You may well look very silly in due course with your ramblings that's all I will say...

Stand on the sidelines and throw mud - Just grow up Col. It's a shame you ballsed up the trust last time and also the amount of calls and messages I got from members of Citymatters who felt you were a loose cannon whilst you were on the panel - perhaps I can understand why now. Who can forget you slagging off 1894 one day back in 2021 and the very next day asking for a job on the committee after you were challenged as to whether you and others on Citymatters panel were prepared to resign over the super league, i'm sorry you have to work your way up first mate, we can't provide vehicles for egos just because they are big.
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Well said Dante (I didn’t realise it was you, you’ve been doing great work for decades, I remember you going back to the Forward with Franny days), please keep up the good work, you are the only ones doing anything - apart from Alex from CM who did good stuff on Istanbul. Not got a fucking scooby what PB was on about saying you lot throw shit from the sidelines, I think deep down he is jealous that your group are the most positive active City group out there. Keep it up pal

Edit PS I shouldn’t be in the silent majority, how do I go about subscribing me and my 2 kids into 1894? We are Family Stand not south stand but we are noisy family stand fuckers
 
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