UK supreme court ruling on legal definition of a woman

Nickyweaves said:
I am transgender. I first realised that something was ‘wrong’ when I was 6 or 7. But I hid it from everyone because I believed that even my close family would reject me if they found out.


I struggled with it my entire life. I would have given anything not to be this way. I hated and despised myself all my life.
I could not have an intimate relationship with anyone because I could never be myself with another person. I never had real friends because my life was a lie, I was not the person they thought I was.

Transitioning and living as a woman was my worst nightmare. It would be the end of life as I knew it. I was convinced I would lose my family and what little friendship I had with people.

Unfortunately, you can only fight it for so long before it becomes impossible to go on. I went ahead and made the change. Suicide was a serious option because the alternative was so terrifying. I did not think I would have the strength to tell everyone the truth about myself and start living as a woman. I found the courage to do it by telling myself that I could always kill myself if it became too terrible. There were many times in the first couple of years that I almost reached that point. The three people that carried me through were all women. I would not be here today without their love and support. None of them were family members although my family were generally supportive.

I would never do anything to make women uncomfortable or afraid. I believe that is true of the vast majority of transwomen.

The ruling today scares me. I had genital surgery nine years ago. I do not have male genitalia. I can be raped in the same way that a biological woman can be raped yet I may find myself having to share male facilities. I undertand the anxiety that having someone who was born male in a female space can cause. I am terrified of being the female in an all male space.

Trans people are not monsters. We did not arrive from space in the last few years, we just became more visible. Trans people have always been here and always will be no matter how many laws are passed against us. We have no choice. We are what we are.

I am not a sexual predator or rapist. I am just another human being like all of you. I want to live my life in peace. I deserve to do that just as much as each of you do.
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if you made even one of the clueless idiots on here have a rethink then good on you for having the strength to post that.
 
Nickyweaves said:
I am transgender. I first realised that something was ‘wrong’ when I was 6 or 7. But I hid it from everyone because I believed that even my close family would reject me if they found out.


I struggled with it my entire life. I would have given anything not to be this way. I hated and despised myself all my life.
I could not have an intimate relationship with anyone because I could never be myself with another person. I never had real friends because my life was a lie, I was not the person they thought I was.

Transitioning and living as a woman was my worst nightmare. It would be the end of life as I knew it. I was convinced I would lose my family and what little friendship I had with people.

Unfortunately, you can only fight it for so long before it becomes impossible to go on. I went ahead and made the change. Suicide was a serious option because the alternative was so terrifying. I did not think I would have the strength to tell everyone the truth about myself and start living as a woman. I found the courage to do it by telling myself that I could always kill myself if it became too terrible. There were many times in the first couple of years that I almost reached that point. The three people that carried me through were all women. I would not be here today without their love and support. None of them were family members although my family were generally supportive.

I would never do anything to make women uncomfortable or afraid. I believe that is true of the vast majority of transwomen.

The ruling today scares me. I had genital surgery nine years ago. I do not have male genitalia. I can be raped in the same way that a biological woman can be raped yet I may find myself having to share male facilities. I undertand the anxiety that having someone who was born male in a female space can cause. I am terrified of being the female in an all male space.

Trans people are not monsters. We did not arrive from space in the last few years, we just became more visible. Trans people have always been here and always will be no matter how many laws are passed against us. We have no choice. We are what we are.

I am not a sexual predator or rapist. I am just another human being like all of you. I want to live my life in peace. I deserve to do that just as much as each of you do.
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Your experiences sound incredibly similar to the trans people I know. I wish you every happiness.
 
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calumdown said:
i thought you said goodnight?

please stop googling things at me that are of no worth.
you are doing my head in.

i stand by my original point...

a thousand years ago there was no such thing as gender discrimination.

i shan't reply to you again.
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You said
“did you know that a thousand years ago all humans were called man/men regardless of gender or sex.

there was no such thing as a woman.

it's in the domesday book if you doubt me.”

I have supplied you with the national archives held version of the original source and academic papers showing you that far from there being no such thing as women in the domesday book, and despite the patriarchal nature of the times, there are many references to both the word woman and more importantly the women themselves. You were wrong.

You could have have just admitted you were wrong when evidence was shown to you that you were. Instead you have blustered on and now tried to reframe your original point, contrary to what I’ve quoted for you above.

Even your reframing is ridiculous as the absence of references to women in appropriate proportions to men in the Domesday Book was because gender discrimination, which you say there was no such thing as, was very much alive and well. Women were marginalised and had no legal rights to speak of, and certainly much fewer rights than they do.

Along the way you’ve cast aspersions at using the number one used resource for locating information. Which is bizarre.

You’ve thrown in some intellectual snobbery about academic institutions. Which is also bizarre.

All because you can’t face the fact that you misremembered or were wrong.

As such, I’m not bothered if you reply again or not.
 
Nickyweaves said:
I am transgender. I first realised that something was ‘wrong’ when I was 6 or 7. But I hid it from everyone because I believed that even my close family would reject me if they found out.


I struggled with it my entire life. I would have given anything not to be this way. I hated and despised myself all my life.
I could not have an intimate relationship with anyone because I could never be myself with another person. I never had real friends because my life was a lie, I was not the person they thought I was.

Transitioning and living as a woman was my worst nightmare. It would be the end of life as I knew it. I was convinced I would lose my family and what little friendship I had with people.

Unfortunately, you can only fight it for so long before it becomes impossible to go on. I went ahead and made the change. Suicide was a serious option because the alternative was so terrifying. I did not think I would have the strength to tell everyone the truth about myself and start living as a woman. I found the courage to do it by telling myself that I could always kill myself if it became too terrible. There were many times in the first couple of years that I almost reached that point. The three people that carried me through were all women. I would not be here today without their love and support. None of them were family members although my family were generally supportive.

I would never do anything to make women uncomfortable or afraid. I believe that is true of the vast majority of transwomen.

The ruling today scares me. I had genital surgery nine years ago. I do not have male genitalia. I can be raped in the same way that a biological woman can be raped yet I may find myself having to share male facilities. I undertand the anxiety that having someone who was born male in a female space can cause. I am terrified of being the female in an all male space.

Trans people are not monsters. We did not arrive from space in the last few years, we just became more visible. Trans people have always been here and always will be no matter how many laws are passed against us. We have no choice. We are what we are.

I am not a sexual predator or rapist. I am just another human being like all of you. I want to live my life in peace. I deserve to do that just as much as each of you do.
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Thankyou for having the courage to tell us your story. A much more compelling take because of the obvious humanity than some ideologues that claim to speak for trans people.
 
Nickyweaves said:
I am transgender. I first realised that something was ‘wrong’ when I was 6 or 7. But I hid it from everyone because I believed that even my close family would reject me if they found out.
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That would be around 1964?

Nickyweaves said:
I had genital surgery nine years ago.
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When you were 58? So you're what? 67 years old?

I've just turned 68 so no worries on my account how old you are, I'm just trying to put your post into perspective.
 
The perfect fumble said:
That would be around 1964?



When you were 58? So you're what? 67 years old?

I've just turned 68 so no worries on my account how old you are, I'm just trying to put your post into perspective.
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I'm knackered, so could be completely wrong, but are you confusing their post count with their age?
 
youngbob said:
I don't recall ever going into a building where there were men's toilets, women's toilets, and then a third toilet block especially for "trans people". For transgender women, the alternative to using women's toilets is using men's toilets (or, in a pinch disabled toilets). Is the world likely to be a safer place with transgender women using men's toilets, using men's changing rooms, or playing sports with men? You can see why someone would be concerned about a potential increase in hate crimes.
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You’re right that society, and private businesses, have not caught up to the very recent surge in the public needs of the trans community. Hopefully, things will improve.

However, I hope that you can see that the whole topic has become akin to the old chestnut

“How many (fill in the blank) does it take to screw in a lightbulb?”

“One! They just hold the lightbulb in place and the whole world revolves around them!”

You see, the “problem” has been created by a very distinct, albeit publicly vocal, minority, who is now expecting to receive special treatment for their situation.

Society takes time.

Gender-neutral bathrooms are a welcome change, but they’re expensive in some locations that might need multiple bathrooms.

As for other situations, until society catches up, I would politely suggest that it is incumbent on the trans community to find their solutions to the problems they face, knowing that the “in yer face!” approach isn’t a winning strategy.

I do have sympathy for anyone who feels trapped inside the wrong body, or an intersex individual who has to make a choice and then be castigated for it, but these are issues for such a small sliver of society that we should understand it will take time for many to come around to a suitable accommodation.

That said, we all know that protection of the meek, weak, and youngest & most vulnerable amongst us is of paramount importance. I feel like that imperative has driven the majority view, with the very vocal and forceful desire of some in the trans community has hurt their cause, esp in the area of those born as a biological male now competing in female sports, even though their testosterone-estrogen levels meet a certain standard.

We ALL know that biological males are, in an overwhelming proportion, significantly stronger than biological females. That, for want of a better word, corrupts the sporting chance. That is where many people find their views on the matter and the rest, to them is either political or performative nonsense.

Let’s hope society catches up to itself and we can all coexist in peace. For that, though, we have to understand each of our respective places within society and not seek special favor or unwarranted acceptance, because it is not society that has suddenly created this change, even though it may have been present for a very long time, albeit mostly hidden.
 
Don Karleone said:
I'm knackered, so could be completely wrong, but are you confusing their post count with their age?
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No, here's a post from him in April 2023....
Nickyweaves said:
I am the reverse. I turned 65 a few weeks ago and it would not let me buy a standard ticket, it made me buy a concessionary one (not that I am complaining).
This is line with the terms and conditions.
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This is not an age thing, I'm not questioning the veracity of his post based on his age, as I say he's a year younger than I am.

To put things in perspective, homosexuality for example, was only legalised in 1967, we both grew up in a time that is almost unrecognisable to today.
 
The perfect fumble said:
No, here's a post from him in April 2023....

This is not an age thing, I'm not questioning the veracity of his post based on his age, as I say he's a year younger than I am.

To put things in perspective, homosexuality for example, was only legalised in 1967, we both grew up in a time that is almost unrecognisable to today.
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Fair enough. I wasn't sure how you knew their age. Nothing more than that.
 
Dax777 said:
Bigot!!!
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What do you say about this pov? It's much better this gets settled in the UK by the courts rather than it being allowed to fester, championed by left-leaning "intellectuals" and then picked up by a right-wing nut job and used to get himself elected?

Could still happen in the UK on other issues, I suppose.
 
halfcenturyup said:
What do you say about this pov? It's much better this gets settled in the UK by the courts rather than it being allowed to fester, championed by left-leaning "intellectuals" and then picked up by a right-wing nut job and used to get himself elected?

Could still happen in the UK on other issues, I suppose.
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Its going to be a political issue either way. There are competing interests here. So no matter what the courts says, whatever side feels its interest has been trampled on will advocate for it politically.
 
hilts said:
So like someone's mum, gran sister etc...
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No, a natal woman is a female from a province in South Africa.
Dax777 said:
Its going to be a political issue either way. There are competing interests here. So no matter what the courts says, whatever side feels its interest has been trampled on will advocate for it politically.
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Which is fine. But the legal issue has been solved. And, most probably, in a way that the vast majority agree with.

By all means advocate around the practicalities, or even for the law to be changed if ever a majority supports the idea. But that wasn't my point.
 
Mon Autre said:
We weren't arguing about that though were we. We were arguing about your made up statistics around how women, and specifically elite sportswomen, feel on the matter. And your blanket statements were clearly incorrect.
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Why don’t you come up with a statistic and number of how many women in football welcome biological males into their game?

I’m thinking your onions and guesses are no nearer the mark than you’re accusing his of being.
 
What's interesting for me, reading through some of the replies on this thread, is the lack of epistemic humility exhibited by many of the contributors.

Personally, I think this is a very complex issue, and I wouldn't feel comfortable about commenting on it until I had read the contrasting views of Shon Faye and Helen Joyce on this subject, at a bare minimum.

It's complex because it touches on our core identity. Does our biology define us? Or are we something more than that?

But anyway, good luck to anyone who reckons they have solved the 'hard problem' of consciousness.
 
I applaud the decision but I also think it’s been celebrated by many because quite frankly many people are sick to death of all this stuff, you can see why Trump is been lauded in America with his stance on DEI and trans stuff. I think many people have had enough of been told how to think, yes we can all be tolerant and just nice humans but the constant bombardment of it all you eventually get push back. Looking over your shoulder in case you say something in jest that could “offend” someone, the quotas and targets to employ certain demographics instead of the best person for the job. It’s why you are seeing a rise of the far right, the left have pissed people off enough they’ve rebelled. Look at Starmer he says there are certain instances where a man can be a woman, then this ruling happens and he agrees with the court!
The amount of time and money spent would be better used elsewhere in this country. As for the bathroom situation, imagine trying to do gender neutral bogs at City!
 
Nickyweaves said:
I am transgender. I first realised that something was ‘wrong’ when I was 6 or 7. But I hid it from everyone because I believed that even my close family would reject me if they found out.


I struggled with it my entire life. I would have given anything not to be this way. I hated and despised myself all my life.
I could not have an intimate relationship with anyone because I could never be myself with another person. I never had real friends because my life was a lie, I was not the person they thought I was.

Transitioning and living as a woman was my worst nightmare. It would be the end of life as I knew it. I was convinced I would lose my family and what little friendship I had with people.

Unfortunately, you can only fight it for so long before it becomes impossible to go on. I went ahead and made the change. Suicide was a serious option because the alternative was so terrifying. I did not think I would have the strength to tell everyone the truth about myself and start living as a woman. I found the courage to do it by telling myself that I could always kill myself if it became too terrible. There were many times in the first couple of years that I almost reached that point. The three people that carried me through were all women. I would not be here today without their love and support. None of them were family members although my family were generally supportive.

I would never do anything to make women uncomfortable or afraid. I believe that is true of the vast majority of transwomen.

The ruling today scares me. I had genital surgery nine years ago. I do not have male genitalia. I can be raped in the same way that a biological woman can be raped yet I may find myself having to share male facilities. I undertand the anxiety that having someone who was born male in a female space can cause. I am terrified of being the female in an all male space.

Trans people are not monsters. We did not arrive from space in the last few years, we just became more visible. Trans people have always been here and always will be no matter how many laws are passed against us. We have no choice. We are what we are.

I am not a sexual predator or rapist. I am just another human being like all of you. I want to live my life in peace. I deserve to do that just as much as each of you do.
Click to expand...

You have my full love and support.

Please always know that not everyone is against you. It's unfortunate in life that the negative voices are often the loudest.
 
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