India / Pakistan conflict.

Strangerepublic said:
Not when someone is as good at irony as you are, because I have seen any number of Empire apologists defend the supposedly amazing British empire using exactly similar words.

What is irony is that I would be more pro British, foam at the mouth nationalist, than your average Farage supporter. Amazing country, unbelievable achievements in science, art, literature. Just that I don't count the empire as one of its plus points.
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Like 'weird'? I am not apologist for any empire - Roman, Byzantine, Holy Roman, Moghul, Ottoman or British - they just need to be viewed in their own historical context to understand them. If trying to do that makes me an imperialist running dog or white supremacist or fascist foamer in your eyes I clearly need to brush up my communication skills.
 
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Strangerepublic said:
Yes, I remember, Yvonne's death was used as a reason to justify supporting the US air attacks on Libya a year later.

Now multiply that by 26 and you get the Pahalgam terror attack on India.
Multiply that further by 1000 and you get the cumulative, relentless wave of Pakistani terrorist attacks on India over the last few decades.
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I'm not sure why you're going off on one at me. You asked if Libya had ever killed British civilians on British soil and I was merely pointing out that yes they have, and gave you 2 examples to back it up
 
Strangerepublic said:
Really, Russia killed 26 British civilians in Salisbury? After about a few dozen other prior attacks, resulting in thousands of civilian deaths?
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A perfume bottle containing thousands of lethal doses of Novichok was dropped in a park litter bin by the Russian agents after their Skripal assassination attempt. Sheer chance that it killed only Dawn Sturgess, the death toll could have been catastrophic. (NATO treaty obligations is the answer to your other question btw deeply contentious as they are.)
 
M16 citeh said:
It's not an excuse it's historically factual. The wrongs can't be righted but to understand India and most other countries of the global south, one has to acknowledge the systematic underdevelopment that happend during the colonial period. Europe got a head start at the expense of the rest of the world and we are living through the aftermath of that.
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It's not historically factual at all. You're claiming that their current lack of development is a direct result of colonialism that ended nearly 80 years ago. In which case, let's go across the sea and ask why Malaysia is far more developed than Myanmar, which has been independent for 9 years longer. Why Malaysia is richer per capita than Thailand, which was never colonised. At some point you have to accept that the reason that India was China's equal in 1995 and living in its shadow 30 years later might have something to do with the governments that have actually run the country for the past 77 years.

Obviously colonialism had a severe negative impact on the country, but it's not a reason why they're still a poor country in 2025, when plenty of formerly colonised countries have at least risen to middle income status.

But perhaps I'm ignorant. Feel free to educate me on the exact mechanism by which colonialism prevented them from improving their economy to the same degree as China or Malaysia for such an extended period of time.
 
Scottyboi said:
Indians arse lick him tbf they might listen to him.
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True, we sometimes forget in Europe that much of the rest of the world just isn't arsed about Ukraine etc. India and China for starters have seen it as a business opportunity in terms of trade with Russia.
 
India is developing very rapidly to be clear, and they're digging themselves out of a larger hole than China. The economic effects of colonialism aren't corrected the day the former overseer hands over the keys, it takes a long time to develop necessary expertise and infrastructure, etc. particularly in a country the size of India.
 
M18CTID said:
I'm not sure why you're going off on one at me. You asked if Libya had ever killed British civilians on British soil and I was merely pointing out that yes they have, and gave you 2 examples to back it up
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The guys a weirdo best to pop him on ignore.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
It's not historically factual at all. You're claiming that their current lack of development is a direct result of colonialism that ended nearly 80 years ago. In which case, let's go across the sea and ask why Malaysia is far more developed than Myanmar, which has been independent for 9 years longer. Why Malaysia is richer per capita than Thailand, which was never colonised. At some point you have to accept that the reason that India was China's equal in 1995 and living in its shadow 30 years later might have something to do with the governments that have actually run the country for the past 77 years.

Obviously colonialism had a severe negative impact on the country, but it's not a reason why they're still a poor country in 2025, when plenty of formerly colonised countries have at least risen to middle income status.

But perhaps I'm ignorant. Feel free to educate me on the exact mechanism by which colonialism prevented them from improving their economy to the same degree as China or Malaysia for such an extended period of time.
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Part of the answer is that Corruption and the caste system have held them back.
 
KS55 said:
Part of the answer is that Corruption and the caste system have held them back.
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Add to that bureaucracy, we gave them the fundamentals of it, but they perfected it. An entire industry just around making things difficult for no reason whatsoever.
 
Kompany Car said:
Add to that bureaucracy, we gave them the fundamentals of it, but they perfected it. An entire industry just around making things difficult for no reason whatsoever.
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I've lived in my fair share of developing countries, and trust me, that's not a British thing, that's a pretty universal corrupt country thing. Want it doing now? Pay extra. Want it doing in 6 weeks? Pay the regular price.
 
Kompany Car said:
Add to that bureaucracy, we gave them the fundamentals of it, but they perfected it. An entire industry just around making things difficult for no reason whatsoever.
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I might add religious conflict to the fundamentals. It seems to me that these fundamentals are incredibly hard to tackle.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
I've lived in my fair share of developing countries, and trust me, that's not a British thing, that's a pretty universal corrupt country thing. Want it doing now? Pay extra. Want it doing in 6 weeks? Pay the regular price.
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Yes. Greece is notorious for that.
 
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