Grooming gang scandal

This thread has turned awful. Really it has. Everyone is quite rightly angered about child sexual abuse. It brings the worst in rage out of everyone. But be grounded, and not look to find validity for existing prejudices. Almost all CSE takes place in a familial setting. Take it from me Ive had 2 and half decades of dealing with it. More grooming than ever due to social media and the Iraqis who cut hair and sell vapes are murder for it, but the offences against children that causes lasting life long harm are by far predominantly caused by family members. Sadly.
 
But how is "Asian" defined? Asia starts at Turkey and goes east as far as Japan. at the eastern end Asia goes south as far as Indonesia. It includes all the Middle East, China, India, Japan and parts of Russia. Pakistan and Bangladesh are just a small proportion.
Is the same definition of "Asian" being used for the number of suspects and the share of population?

I suppose some could use their knowledge of the greater manchester area and apply a little common sense, maybe I have missed the fast developing Japanese areas in Collyhurst for example. One could also see what ethnicity is in the news when charged i guess.

I don't remember too many Chinese or Afghan grooming gangs.

This attempted deflection and pedantry is now hyper desperate. Its pretty embarrassing tbh.

Seriously some of you should have been working as social workers or the police.

Maybe you were......ermmm
 
I suppose some could use their knowledge of the greater manchester area and apply a little common sense, maybe I have missed the fast developing Japanese areas in Collyhurst for example. One could also see what ethnicity is in the news when charged i guess.

I don't remember too many Chinese or Afghan grooming gangs.

This attempted deflection and pedantry is now hyper desperate. Its pretty embarrassing tbh.

Seriously some of you should have been working as social workers or the police.

Maybe you were......ermmm
I've worked with kids in care and their sexual abusers were all white drug addicts selling their kids to pedos for drug money.


Disgusting scumbags with kids who are mentally damaged forever.
 
I've worked with kids in care and their sexual abusers were all white drug addicts selling their kids to pedos for drug money.


Disgusting scumbags with kids who are mentally damaged forever.

I've been privy to lots of information from various fraud teams. Police, DWP etc etc.
It's right across the board, regardless of ethnicity.
However, there is one group in particular that sell their kids. And it isn't whites or Asians.
 
I've worked with kids in care and their sexual abusers were all white drug addicts selling their kids to pedos for drug money.


Disgusting scumbags with kids who are mentally damaged forever.
And that is another real life professional experience that should be acknowledged and heard but wont be. Again, what you described there tragically is in a familial setting
 
I suppose some could use their knowledge of the greater manchester area and apply a little common sense, maybe I have missed the fast developing Japanese areas in Collyhurst for example. One could also see what ethnicity is in the news when charged i guess.

I don't remember too many Chinese or Afghan grooming gangs.

This attempted deflection and pedantry is now hyper desperate. Its pretty embarrassing tbh.

Seriously some of you should have been working as social workers or the police.

Maybe you were......ermmm
I'm not sure what the fuck you're on about.
I was merely pointing out that the percentage of Asian suspects compared to percentage of Asians in the population might well differ depending on how one defines Asian. If those Asian suspects all had Pakistani or Bangladeshi heritage then comparisons should be made with the percentage of Pakistanis or Bangladeshis in the population rather than Asians in general.
Unless of course, the number of immigrants from Pakistan or Bangladesh totally overwhelms the numbers from other areas of Asia, in which case the ratios wouldn't change much based on definition.
 
Fortunately the Casey report does provide the relevant population data for Greater Manchester, thereby allowing us to judge whether the different ethnicities have a disproportionate share of suspects. I think it’s probably useful to post the data here, so that there’s no confusion.

The 131 Asian suspects account for 54% of the total in the GMP data relating to group based cases, versus an Asian population share of 20.9% for Greater Manchester in the 2021 census.

White suspects accounted for 35% of the total, versus a population share of 56.8%.

Black suspects accounted for 3% of the total, versus an 11.9% population share. The figures for mixed race were 8% versus 5.3% population, and other races was 0% versus 5.1% population.

The data are on page 82 of the report.
Good points.
 
I suppose some could use their knowledge of the greater manchester area and apply a little common sense, maybe I have missed the fast developing Japanese areas in Collyhurst for example. One could also see what ethnicity is in the news when charged i guess.

I don't remember too many Chinese or Afghan grooming gangs.

This attempted deflection and pedantry is now hyper desperate. Its pretty embarrassing tbh.

Seriously some of you should have been working as social workers or the police.

Maybe you were......ermmm
I’ve taught pretty much every ethnicity it’s possible to categorise. Give me a class of Chinese or Indian kids all day, every day. Tinkers can kiss my John Loudon McAdam’s backside.
  • in the 2022 to 2023 school year, the average score for 'Attainment 8' (a measure of pupils' performance in 8 GCSE-level qualifications) was 46.3 out of 90.0 – down from 48.8 out of 90.0 in in the previous school year
  • pupils from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest Attainment 8 score out of all ethnic groups (65.5), followed by pupils from the Indian ethnic group (59.4)
  • white Gypsy and Roma pupils had the lowest score (20.3)
 
All of them?
Firstly, to be clear, I believe the vast majority of the UK Pakistani population have nothing to do with the rape gangs and are getting about living their lives peaceably with their families.

Now to go off at a tangent . When I was a kid, in my area , the population would have been 99% white . If anyone was suspected / charged with being a nonce, the minimum said nonce could expect was their windows put through, maybe paint daubed on the property . If it was more certain, the door broken down and beaten to a pulp or if they were well barricaded in then setting fire to the property to flush them out would have been considered reasonable . I am not condoning that, just making the point that there was zero tolerance of sexual abuse of children ( at least by third parties) in that community.

So compare that with the response of the Pakistani / Muslim communities these Rape gang offenders originate from.
I have seen several call for Pakistani / Muslim leaders to speak out in support of Baroness Casey's findings and recommendations - The silence is deafening . But it always is.!
Here is the headline of an article I have posted before from the Guardian ( must be right) of an interview with Nazir Afsal - where he addresses this issue in Bradford and asks the community to take responsibility for the grooming issue. The article is 11 years old.

Screenshot 2025-06-19 at 23.47.28.pngDid they take responsibility for? Did they speak out - Did they fuck.

Why not ? These are tight communities with strong patriarchal clans, they know who these people are, they know what is happening but they stay silent.
Whenever a gang is convicted there are some official comments of disapproval, but that's it.
Why aren't they reporting these people to the police ?
Why are they not ostracised in their community ?
Why do the Imams not speak out ?
Why does the community not take responsibility ?

This is not just an issue about a small minority of abusers, it is an issue for the communities themselves that allow this to thrive amongst them.
Of course it is neither fair nor correct to tarnish the whole community as abusers but by remaining silent they are enablers .
Maybe one reason they don't speak out is because they don't feel they have to , after all they have an army of useful idiots in the form of the progressive left to maintain denial , deflect and obfuscate on the issue and keep playing the race card on their behalf.
Rather than asking glib questions like " All of them" it might be time to ask yourself how you might challenge the Pakistani / Muslim community to really start helping themselves and community relations by identifying what they stand for and publicly ostracise these people.
They should be putting them on the plane back to Pakistan themselves.
 
Feel free…
So a youth club for kids will stop a Pakistani or any other rape gang's. Or have I got it wrong and the youth club's will educate the rapists. Money needs to be spent on punishment for criminals. Wrong uns need to be taken away from law abiding citizens. Leopards will not change spots .
 
But how is "Asian" defined? Asia starts at Turkey and goes east as far as Japan. at the eastern end Asia goes south as far as Indonesia. It includes all the Middle East, China, India, Japan and parts of Russia. Pakistan and Bangladesh are just a small proportion.
Is the same definition of "Asian" being used for the number of suspects and the share of population?
The issue of ethnic definitions in the crime data and the census figures is slightly nuanced, but as far as I can see they will be comparable for the purposes of the matter being discussed. The various definitions are outlined in different sections of the report, so it takes a bit of reading to build up a proper picture.

There’s a footnote on page 74 of the report which offers a full explanation, but Police data on ethnicity is either self-defined (by the person arrested or questioned), or officer identified, as in a description of a suspect. The self-defined ethnicity data use the same categories as the Census, and so will be comparable, while the officer identified data are based on IC codes. In these IC codes, I believe they separate Asian (Indian subcontinent) from Chinese and Japanese, whereas in the Census these two groups will both fall under the same Asian definition.

The suspect ethnicity data presented by GMP in the Casey report are both self-identified and officer identified, presumably because not all of the suspects will have been arrested or questioned, and so in theory there is a difference between the ethnicity definitions of the GMP suspect and census population data.

However, the broader definition employed in the census data will boost the proportion of the population defined as Asian, relative to the proportion of the population that would be calculated by the definition of Asian used in the GMP data. The size of any bias will obviously depend on the split between the self-identified and officer identified ethnicity data collected by GMP, and the size of the Chinese/Japanese population.

But, to answer the question, if any bias and mismatch of definitions exists, it appears it would only work to boost the denominator (proportion of population) and not the numerator (proportion of suspects). So any difference would essentially work to play down and dilute the over-representation of Asian suspects in the GMP data.

A long answer but I think this is fair.
 
I'm not sure what the fuck you're on about.
I was merely pointing out that the percentage of Asian suspects compared to percentage of Asians in the population might well differ depending on how one defines Asian. If those Asian suspects all had Pakistani or Bangladeshi heritage then comparisons should be made with the percentage of Pakistanis or Bangladeshis in the population rather than Asians in general.
Unless of course, the number of immigrants from Pakistan or Bangladesh totally overwhelms the numbers from other areas of Asia, in which case the ratios wouldn't change much based on definition.

If you don't understand my post as complicated as it was no point going any further, it was quite obvious really.
 
I've worked with kids in care and their sexual abusers were all white drug addicts selling their kids to pedos for drug money.


Disgusting scumbags with kids who are mentally damaged forever.

Yep I agree

I know some white druggies that don't sell their kids for sex though, so I think it's best we don't pick on the poor drug addicted white folk

I think I'm getting the hang of this now:-)
 
There are all kinds of factors here, and proper, warts-and-all insight is welcomed.
I have little doubt that a whole range of socio-economic factors are at play.
I think of Rochdale, Bradford, Burnley, and Keighley, and not only the high Asian population but also the absolute poverty, low education, low opportunity, and high drug and alcohol dependency. These circumstances will absolutely influence vulnerability to grooming.
If I think of the situation in Glasgow, I will bet the same factors are at play.
We need to look at things in totality, and that must be done with an entirely neutral beginning, with no stone unturned. My own thoughts are that drug and alcohol dependency will be the biggest factor of all in abuse.
 
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The average children's social worker that deals with "complex cases" has a caseload that is more than double their recommended limit.

There are 7,500 current vacancies for case holding social workers in the children's sector in a total workforce of 32,000. This is probably because they have one of the highest turnovers of any industry. It turns out dealing with kids who are battered, raped and often tortured every day as a 9 to 5 job where you're massively overburdened, have almost zero budget and no resources takes a toll on mental health. It's a meme within that industry that you're not "time-served" until you've had at least one total mental health breakdown that results in long term absence and treatment by professionals. That's their job. They have to sit in front of men raping their daughters and be polite and professional. Those coppers who check paedos hard drives to catalogue have a strict rotation because it is fully understood that exposure to that material can only be tolerated by the normal human brain for so long. Social workers don't. They get 60 hours a week instead for a salary of 38. They also have to essentially be lawyers and need to know things like the Care Act and statutory guidance backwards and forwards including all the legalese and if they miss something or make a mistake then, God forbid, a kid will die and everybody fucking hates them and the press absolutely hound them to ensure they're ran out of the industry. Oh and they also get accused of being child snatchers, racists, trouble causers, and every other derogatory term.

They do this for a wage equivalent to a mid tier McDonalds worker.

They do the job of three people. They need money and resources. If people want to help then stop pointing fingers at ethnic groups and talking about insane and revealing fantasies about torturing paedophiles and use all that campaigning energy to get one of the most overwhelmed and underfunded parts of the public sector more resources so they can actually have the time and ability to do the job that they do because nobody else wants to, which is preventing the rape and abuse of children. That's what their "Zoom conferences" are about at 9am on a Monday morning. Children getting actively raped or beaten or neglected. I don't know what your morning looks like but that's not something I could handle. But they do. And they get shit on for it.
Excellent.
 

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