How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Oldham Exile said:
Oh - fuck - is that a serious reply

I think so - so no more needs to be said - dreamer

But to help - the 'trajectory' and intent of the EU was crystal clear - TBF they did not mask it and set out clearly in their strategy documents that full fiscal an political integration was to be secured - did you read any of those documents? I'm guessing not - but - hey - carry on banging on about blue/black passports. Or perhaps do some research to make yourself better informed

Do you remember the TCE - 2004 - and what happened after it didn't get through..............??

I'm guessing not - but go google
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Gosh, with that response you remind me of someone I used to know. Uncanny.
 
inbetween said:
It makes no sense to me and I only trust real world data and economists who use real data. The real world data does not show a £40bn black hole in the economy due to Brexit. The tax pot doesn't even account for Brexit specifically so to prove it at all you're already introducing bias because you're setting out to get a certain result.

Ask yourself how many economists are sounding an alarm about the £110bn that is spent on national debt interest repayments? Nobody is arsed. It's like Labour bleating on about their £20bn black hole which is actually just a small hole inside a gigantic hole because we borrow £130bn per year more than we take in tax, it's disingenous.

Forgive me if I don't trust a single thing that anybody says on this, it's wide open to bias and nobody on here ever challenges the real world data because for them it gives the wrong result. Instead they quote anything they can google which disproves it. Usually they quote losses in trade whilst simultaneously glossing over service growth which offsets those losses.

Everyone said that there would be an apocalypse which is lucky because we actually have real world data for real economic apocalypse's caused by COVID or the 2008 crash. Where is the equivalent for Brexit on the graph below? You can see COVID, you can see the 2008 crash, you cannot see Brexit. Surely a £40bn difference (1.6% of GDP!) would be quite obvious?

chartimage
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You make some good points mate but the graph is not that helpful given we withdrew from the EU 31st Jan 2020 and were in a transition period that year during which Covid struck. So the impact of both Covid and Brexit will be baked into that trough.

You are right though, the world hasn’t ended. Neither lie has come to fruition. We haven’t exactly flourished with our new found freedom either.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Interesting thought. Some may well do. But the fact is their economies are very different to the UKs.
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Indeed - it was true that new entrants did well after joining the EU - but to the cost of other countries (spoiler - including the UK) - someone has to pay the bill!!

Surprised that this thread has not discussed the increasing trend in recent years towards 'reshoring'. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised as such facts do not support the echo chamber narrative
 
Perhaps the most obvious part of the economic damage of Brexit is the halving of motor manufacturing, which is around half a percent of GDP gone in just that one industry.
 
Vic said:
Perhaps the most obvious part of the economic damage of Brexit is the halving of motor manufacturing, which is around half a percent of GDP gone in just that one industry.
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The car makers moved out of the UK because they found countries with much cheaper wages and subsidies. Brexit had nothing to do with it. Seek some therapy, we're not rejoining.
 
Vic said:
Perhaps the most obvious part of the economic damage of Brexit is the halving of motor manufacturing, which is around half a percent of GDP gone in just that one industry.
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Recent Government policy has been very damaging to the UK motor industry unfortunately.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
You make some good points mate but the graph is not that helpful given we withdrew from the EU 31st Jan 2020 and were in a transition period that year during which Covid struck. So the impact of both Covid and Brexit will be baked into that trough.

You are right though, the world hasn’t ended. Neither lie has come to fruition. We haven’t exactly flourished with our new found freedom either.
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And if you conclude that the impact from brexit was clouded by Covid, you also have to conclude that the impact was very limited in extent and growth has bounced back just as it did after covid.

As regards flourishing, we are doing better than our G7 European neighbours so it's positive if you use them as a benchmark, as to where we would be if we had stayed.
 
tweety said:
The car makers moved out of the UK because they found countries with much cheaper wages and subsidies. Brexit had nothing to do with it. Seek some therapy, we're not rejoining.
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Tosh. Prior to Brexit, car manufacturing was at an all time high and makers were contemplating expansion. That was despite some earlier examples of what you mention (e.g. the Transit factory in Southampton).
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
And if you conclude that the impact from brexit was clouded by Covid, you also have to conclude that the impact was very limited in extent and growth has bounced back just as it did after covid.

As regards flourishing, we are doing better than our G7 European neighbours so it's positive if you use them as a benchmark, as to where we would be if we had stayed.
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but benchmarked against other advanced economies hardly flourishing which was what was claimed. Anyway mate, no point in us reopening this debate. The world didn't end.
 
Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss (briefly ) Sunak and now Starmer. All PM's who came to power saying that they would do Brexit better. All have or are failing and public opinion is against them. When will the penny drop that its the project thats the problem not how its done. If you have spent years trying to plait fog and failed every time why promise that you are the one to take over because you have a sure fire way to plait fog........ ?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
You make some good points mate but the graph is not that helpful given we withdrew from the EU 31st Jan 2020 and were in a transition period that year during which Covid struck. So the impact of both Covid and Brexit will be baked into that trough.

You are right though, the world hasn’t ended. Neither lie has come to fruition. We haven’t exactly flourished with our new found freedom either.
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The steady long-term decline has continued unabated. Perhaps Brexit was just irrelevant. We are being distracted while the ship goes down.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
And if you conclude that the impact from brexit was clouded by Covid, you also have to conclude that the impact was very limited in extent and growth has bounced back just as it did after covid.

As regards flourishing, we are doing better than our G7 European neighbours so it's positive if you use them as a benchmark, as to where we would be if we had stayed.
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And yet the quality of life here continues to sink.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss (briefly ) Sunak and now Starmer. All PM's who came to power saying that they would do Brexit better. All have or are failing and public opinion is against them. When will the penny drop that its the project thats the problem not how its done. If you have spent years trying to plait fog and failed every time why promise that you are the one to take over because you have a sure fire way to plait fog........ ?
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Cameron resigned, having a fucking useless govt who failed at most things isn't really a great point. Don't act like these fucknuts were somehow the pinnacle of anything, they left the NHS in a mess so by your logic the NHS should be scrapped.
Let's not go down the bad logic to defend a position route eh?

Anyhow a lot of you guys

Claimed a referendum was a bad idea so that rules out another one. Yes?
You claimed only a politician could cope with such a complicated matter and it's the democratic(haha) duty for the sitting govt to make decisions on our behalf(except when you disagree obviously)

Well we now have a sitting Labour govt that most of you voted for(rather than the openly pro EU lib dems) Starmer is a remainer so he can try and make you all very happy again. He should be shouting from the roof tops how he is gonna try and get us back in. But he's not is he?

Maybe you should be pissed with the guy who can actual do something rather than keep moaning about something done a decade ago.

You have an adult in the room now remember and the polls suggest the majority now want closer ties with Europe. Just give it some time and judge it then. Some waited 40 yrs for just a vote I'm sure you can hang on a little longer to rid yourselves of the catastrophe that hasn't actually materialised.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
but benchmarked against other advanced economies hardly flourishing which was what was claimed. Anyway mate, no point in us reopening this debate. The world didn't end.
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No, there isn't much to debate. I will say it is good to see you acknowlede the numbers tho, unlike the majority of posters on this thread who simply refuse. So fair plays. Have a good evening.
 
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