Alan Ball: Did Franny Lee Really Think He Would Bring Trophies?

[Ribble73]

He was one of our great trinity of players in the late 60s/early 70s. But by God, Lee was a terrible chairman. That whole "forward with Franny" campaign as well; little did we know what was to come. Brings to mind that old saying; be careful what you wish for, you may end up getting it.

I found it unreal. City were playing Liverpool, who were playing United in the FA Cup final the following week. Liverpool did not want to get any injuries or suspensions for the final, so would have eased up. City could and should have gone all out and won the game, whatever rumours about games elsewhere were circulating on the final day.

Didn’t Ian Rush (supposedly a Blue) score his 250th Goal or something and barely celebrated -the Scousers weren’t even bothered that day

 

[Ribble73]

I can only comment on Lee from what I saw via the media, but he always came across as someone who was never wrong and wondered if he was to stubborn to admit that Ball wasn't right and instead of getting rid hoped that we would stay up then reassess in the summer. As for Ball I think he lost the dressing room(if he ever had it) with his medal speech especially with some of the senior players considering as he hadn't set the world alight with his managerial career. He managed to get Southampton into the top half but that was more luck than anything else with le tissier and the loan signing of Ekelund hitting form at the right time thus saving him saving him. Then hoping he could replicate this at City with Ekelund and Kinky, with the former having a known back injury which was known about when Ball was still manager at Southampton.

I would love to know the reasoning behind some of transfers, we're they purely financial like selling flitcroft to Blackburn trying to stamp authority on the dressing room getting rid of players like phelan and Walsh. Or just simply being completely clueless in the transfer market by signing the likes of buster Philips

With this and the york away thread might have to open up my rolodex and contact my therapist

Getting rid of Niall Quinn c2 days before the start of the season didn’t inspire confidence

 

[Ribble73]

He must have looked at Jack Walker and thought with his football knowledge he would be just as successful if not more. Walker put his man in (Dalgliesh) and Franny probably reckoned he could trump that too with a World Cup Winner. Just the way he was I suppose.

Jack Walker was later

 

[Ribble73]

A few have mentioned about Kiddo being all but agreed but there is a little bit more to the story. Kiddo was supposed to be City manager and had basically agreed it until Ferguson found out about it and put an end to it straight away. He called Kiddo into his office and basically told him he knew and there was no way he was leaving to join us.

On top of Kiddo two signings had also pretty much been sorted and were due to be kiddos first signings and they were Chris Coleman and Gareth Southgate. Obviously neither happened once kiddo was off.

Would have been two pretty solid centre back signings in hindsight.

Definitely not heard this before -but the Kiddo rumours were mega strong

 

[warpig]

Creaney AKA - A bag of lard.

One of the worst players ever to wear a city shirt.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Jack Walker was later

He was 1990 with Dalglish arriving in 1991 and the title in 1995. Franny was 1994 but Blackburn were already improving season by season and spending big before then.

 

[Ribble73]

I loved that game, I remember coming home afterwards to watch the highlights on MOTD and Des Lytham described it as one of the best games they had showed live. Only then to read the tabloids the next day ridiculing that summary and describe it as a game of mistakes. The anti-city reporting was going on well before the takeover!

The reality is Ossy Ardiles Tottenham experiment quickly unraveled after that but our superb front three that day were awesome on the day and also in the midweek League Cup game at QPR on the Tuesday after but never hit those heights again

 

[nmc]

Remember chatting to Peter Beagrie at Platt Lane after training once. I think it’s fair to say he didn’t seem to think too much of Alan Ball. Referred to him as ‘bonfire head’ and was pretty open about the fact all the players hated him.

 

[Ribble73]

He was 1990 with Dalglish arriving in 1991 and the title in 1995. Franny was 1994 but Blackburn were already improving season by season and spending big before then.

Agree -forgot they had a few seasons with the likes of Archibald and Ardiles playing for them prior to Promotion

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

In Benson’s and Clark’s defence they did inherit poor and testing situations. Ball did what had proved successful at Southampton (his first time where his “style” worked, probably his only time) where he tried to rebuild a team around one player. Anyone following had to pick up the pieces of that PLUS the Coppell scenario. Clark seemed like a decent guy but he really had no chance. Benson had to follow a similar situation with John Bond (and Malcolm prior to that) where the heart of the team had been ripped out.

Funnily I remember exactly where I was when I heard Benson had been appointed. I was walking down a steep hill near my home and it must have been a prediction of the future.

Controversial perhaps but my top 3 worst (in my lifetime) are …

Ball
Allison
Bond

In that order. Benson 4th then Clark after.

I’m sorry my friend but no universe exists where you can say Benson was a better manager than Bond

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

I’m sorry my friend but no universe exists where you can say Benson was a better manager than Bond

Bond was the better manager but he had a worse effect on us than Benson as he generally continued Allison’s destruction. In the league in 80/81 we finished with 3 wins out of the last 12 games. In 81/82 it was 3 in 17. His style was attack minded but the players couldn’t keep it up for a full season. Benson finished with 3 wins out of 17 but he wasn’t an experienced man and too much was asked of him whereas Bond was supposed to know how to build a team. He got found out at City.

 

[Lavinda Past]

Went to the pre-season game at Scarborough and bumped into Michael Browns Dad outside pre-match and also after the game (2-2 draw) in the Scarborough Club Bar when Michael came out to meet up with him and was saying Ball was ranting on about his World Cup Medal to the players etc -some of which we had overheard from outside before we went in through an open window next to the Club Bar and asked young Michael about what was going on etc

He just couldn't help himself!

It's understandable really. He probably still couldn't believe it himself.

 

[Lavinda Past]

Bond was the better manager but he had a worse effect on us than Benson as he generally continued Allison’s destruction. In the league in 80/81 we finished with 3 wins out of the last 12 games. In 81/82 it was 3 in 17. His style was attack minded but the players couldn’t keep it up for a full season. Benson finished with 3 wins out of 17 but he wasn’t an experienced man and too much was asked of him whereas Bond was supposed to know how to build a team. He got found out at City.

John Bond had a charmed life. He blagged a career as a football manager. Benefitted from Malcolm Allison having completely lost the plot at City, and Peter Swales being desperate.

As you say, Benson was a novice and achieved no more than anyone ever really expected of him.

 

[Corky]

He was 1990 with Dalglish arriving in 1991 and the title in 1995. Franny was 1994 but Blackburn were already improving season by season and spending big before then.

He funded them before he took over, but he was never Chairman of Blackburn and was only allowed in the UK something like 30 days a year due to his tax exile status. He obviously had a big say in things, and was vocal about not paying the player wage demands in the late 90s, but Lee was Chairman and more hands on, and too involved with the players according to most players accounts.

The big difference was Walker had about 100 x funding available.

Didn’t Ian Rush (supposedly a Blue) score his 250th Goal or something and barely celebrated -the Scousers weren’t even bothered that day

The shot took a massive deflection and I think that had something to do with it too, he probably didn't expect to be given that goal, but also said he took no pleasure in helping sending City down.

 

[JGL07]

In Benson’s and Clark’s defence they did inherit poor and testing situations. Ball did what had proved successful at Southampton (his first time where his “style” worked, probably his only time) where he tried to rebuild a team around one player. Anyone following had to pick up the pieces of that PLUS the Coppell scenario. Clark seemed like a decent guy but he really had no chance. Benson had to follow a similar situation with John Bond (and Malcolm prior to that) where the heart of the team had been ripped out.

Funnily I remember exactly where I was when I heard Benson had been appointed. I was walking down a steep hill near my home and it must have been a prediction of the future.

Controversial perhaps but my top 3 worst (in my lifetime) are …

Ball
Allison
Bond

In that order. Benson 4th then Clark after.

I didn’t realise that it was April Fools day! You have included John Bond as third worst given the competition from Coppell, Clark, Pearce, Poyser, Saunders, and a few I may have blanked out of my memory.

John Bond would be up there with the best managers around level with Royle and behind Guardiola, Mancini and Pelligrini. Others with a positive memory include Horton and to a lesser extent Kendall and Reid.

 

[Stelea]

The sale of Coton to bring in a totally useless, past it German keeper was a huge error. I will never forgive Immel for Giggs goal in the 2-3 home Derby.
Other useless twats were Frontzeck, Creaney, Phillips, Kavilashvili and Clough.
What a 12 months of destruction.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

I didn’t realise that it was April Fools day! You have included John Bond as third worst given the competition from Coppell, Clark, Pearce, Poyser, Saunders, and a few I may have blanked out of my memory.

John Bond would be up there with the best managers around level with Royle and behind Guardiola, Mancini and Pelligrini. Others with a positive memory include Horton and to a lesser extent Kendall and Reid.

It’s only an opinion so no need to get your knickers in a twist. I must admit I forgot about Pearce as I was concentrating on the shambles around the 80s and 90s. Poyser and Saunders were before my time anyway and I did clarify that I wasn’t including those outside of that.

If you’re happy with Bond’s record then fine, but I think he was the wrong solution. He won fuck all as a manager, anywhere, before or after. He sold players like Lee Dixon & Dean Saunders in his management career when they were youngsters and no doubt brought in replacement players nearing their retirement. I said it was a controversial opinion seeing as he got us to a cup final and two mid-table finishes and his win percentage is quite decent.

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

Bond was the better manager but he had a worse effect on us than Benson as he generally continued Allison’s destruction. In the league in 80/81 we finished with 3 wins out of the last 12 games. In 81/82 it was 3 in 17. His style was attack minded but the players couldn’t keep it up for a full season. Benson finished with 3 wins out of 17 but he wasn’t an experienced man and too much was asked of him whereas Bond was supposed to know how to build a team. He got found out at City.

I’m no John Bond disciple but let’s remember in 81-82 we had a very good squad but were decimated by long term injuries - Power and Gow out for long periods, Tueart in a rich vein of form out since November, Trevor Francis only playing half the games etc - it ended up being too much and post Christmas was I agree pretty poor.
And then the money ran out and 82-83 we ended up with such stellar players like Bodak, Chris Jones, Hariede etc.
So I think you’re being harsh on Bond - some of the worst City performances I’ve ever seen came under Benson.

 

[Damocles]

In Benson’s and Clark’s defence they did inherit poor and testing situations. Ball did what had proved successful at Southampton (his first time where his “style” worked, probably his only time) where he tried to rebuild a team around one player. Anyone following had to pick up the pieces of that PLUS the Coppell scenario. Clark seemed like a decent guy but he really had no chance. Benson had to follow a similar situation with John Bond (and Malcolm prior to that) where the heart of the team had been ripped out.

Funnily I remember exactly where I was when I heard Benson had been appointed. I was walking down a steep hill near my home and it must have been a prediction of the future.

Controversial perhaps but my top 3 worst (in my lifetime) are …

Ball
Allison
Bond

In that order. Benson 4th then Clark after.

Can someone talk more about Allison as a manager? It was before my time and nobody ever seems to talk about the total fuck up that he was without Mercer. All I really know is that he was a bit of a Big Time Charlie and in his two spells he alienated a lot of people. Is that a fair reflection?

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I'm sorry that's not how I remember it at all, Horton was nice guy and should maybe have been given a bit more time but there were some horrible performances, I remember going down to Coventry and getting absolutely smashed by them, we seemed to have perhaps one good game and then loose the next three. Under Kendall and Reid the football was predictable but the team was hardly in a mess, after Reid was sacked we went from being a top 10 club to scrapping against relegation every season.

I did say we over achieved finishing 17th. But under Horton we had a style and carried a threat. It wasn't BHs fault the squad was stagnating in an era where a lot of money was around in the top flight.

He was 1990 with Dalglish arriving in 1991 and the title in 1995. Franny was 1994 but Blackburn were already improving season by season and spending big before then.

It's worth flagging the PL break away deal in 1992. There was a wave of money that flooded the League in the mid 90s. But you wouldn't know it as a city fan. Neither Horton or Ball had much money to spend.