The Labour Government

hampshireblue said:
My point is that we're all on here, a pretty average bunch, worked hard (most of us), probably from fairly working class backgrounds. But for all of the moaning about how Labour are doing this and that and apparently making it worse for the population, apart from the WFA(the pension has been uplifted by more now anyway), I have yet to read of someone actually being worse off as a result of government policy (apart from Big Joe who thinks government set his car insurance prices).

I too want better services, better pension, better welfare, better armed forces. But it all has to be paid for somehow and the taxation system as it stands is clearly not providing enough. As I've said before 2% on VAT on everything over say £200 would help. Also a £1000 fine for every illegal number plate on cars should raise a couple of £bn :-)
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Yes but we MIGHT get away with a bit of tax raising, it is NOT the long term solution. We have to get the economy growing and taking money off people and businesses, does the very opposite. IMO.
 
BobKowalski said:
You could have at least managed to mention the actual Brexit trade deal in your talking points. That would be the deal we are renegotiating to slash red tape, open access to EU markets and, you know, try and get back to what we had and since lost.

Surprised you didn’t go for the obvious one. The ability to do a quick and dirty deal with the US and dodge the lunatic’s self imposed consumer tax nonsense and leaving the EU and US to slug it out.

Military power is interesting. EU was a trade bloc, not a military bloc when we left. However, the world now is a lot different to 2016 with the Ukraine invasion and the increased unreliability of the US. We are now seeking stronger security and defence ties with Europe which is in everyone’s interests. France, though, is blocking UK firms from benefitting from EU defence funds given it is a non-EU country. EU defence benefits for EU countries only. It’s about control and France making sure that juicy pie isn’t divided up too thinly. C’est la change and all that.
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So you made it up then. Thought so.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Yes but we MIGHT get away with a bit of tax raising, it is NOT the long term solution. We have to get the economy growing and taking money off people and businesses, does the very opposite. IMO.
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I am sure someone in Scandinavian countries made that case post WW2. Yet somehow they are amonst the happiest places to live

"The average tax rate in the world is 31.37%, the European average is 32% and the OECD average is 41.58%.
In the Nordic countries however, the tax rates are higher with Denmark at 55.56%, Finland at 51.25%, Iceland at 46.22%, Norway at 47.2% and Sweden at 57% 6 "
 
bluethrunthru said:
I am sure someone in Scandinavian countries made that case post WW2. Yet somehow they are amonst the happiest places to live

"The average tax rate in the world is 31.37%, the European average is 32% and the OECD average is 41.58%.
In the Nordic countries however, the tax rates are higher with Denmark at 55.56%, Finland at 51.25%, Iceland at 46.22%, Norway at 47.2% and Sweden at 57% 6 "
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Yes but they are Scandinavians and we aren't. Also Norway is a total outlier. They have more oil & gas than they know what to do with.

Still we had high tax rates under Harold Wilson and it was marvellous back then. A roaring success.
 
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BobKowalski said:
I said this at the time, but threats to the State, and in this case, a newly elected Government are invariably dealt with swiftly and harshly. It was an attempt to change Govt policy through violence and intimidation against persons and property which is the definition of terrorism under UK law.

It upsets you because you are on the side of the terrorists this time around. If violence breaks out again this summer, then it will be met with the similar force by the State.

Keep your protests peaceful and you will not have a problem. On the bright side, at least you can carry signs without being arrested.
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That seems like the State having much too much power to me. Judiciary neutral, free speech, everything debated in Parliament, Ministers giving truthful answers in Parliament, no lobbying of MPs, no free handouts, prison for treachery and always, always, justice seen to be done without interference. That’s what we have Parliament for and sadly it has become a mockery, with a lot of incompetent politicians. Media trained until they are like robots. Very sad.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
So.... do you agree that Starmers sentence about there being "lots of housing" was at best ill advised and at worst plain stupid?

... and as for Jones, come on, "the majority of people on those boats are women and children" that is so incomprehensible it's untrue... where the fuck do they get their bullshit from?

At least you never tried to deflect the issue by saying something stupid like... "Nigel". I take it from that, that whilst we do and probably will forever, disagree you unserstand the political wilderness I find myself in, and again whilst you totally disagree with my tactics and option you can see that I do not support any party.
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Completely incompetent bunch, all of them. I don’t see party worthy of my vote for a long time.
 
west didsblue said:
I think you’ve answered your own point. It makes perfect sense to deal with public disorder promptly and harshly to discourage it from continuing. It worked.
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I would agree it did work, but I think it stores up huge resentment in the working public who are at the moment seeing themselves as being ignored.
 
Labour who'll make small cuts or Tories that will make huge cuts according to Badenoch in the FT. Or believe the fascists and make it worse? What a choice.

Naturally these cuts won't affect their affluent friends.

Are we really heading down the road of you're either rich or your poor. No middle ground.

What do these rich cunts do when they've taken all our money.

Rent/domestic bills going up. To cover that we have to cut down socialising. Maybe paying a subscription that keeps us sane.

How do people cope that are on minimum wage but not a living one?
 
Chippy_boy said:
Yes but they are Scandinavians and we aren't. Also Norway is a total outlier. They have more oil & gas than they know what to do with.

Still we had high tax rates under Harold Wilson and it was marvellous back then. A roaring success.
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then we found oil and gas - what happened with that?
 
bluethrunthru said:
then we found oil and gas - what happened with that?
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Ed Millibrain is what’s happened to that. Utter madness to import gas when we could just use own own, but that’s Ed for you.

And to put it into perspective btw, Norway is one of the world’s biggest gas exporters. They sell us their gas so we don’t have to use our own. Brilliant.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Ed Millibrain is what’s happened to that. Utter madness to import gas when we could just use own own, but that’s Ed for you.

And to put it into perspective btw, Norway is one of the world’s biggest gas exporters. They sell us their gas so we don’t have to use our own. Brilliant.
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How do we use our "own" gas and oil? We grant licences for cash to petrochemical giants to extract it - then they own it and they sell it on world markets. At what point is it ours to use straight out of the ground?
 
Chippy_boy said:
Ed Millibrain is what’s happened to that. Utter madness to import gas when we could just use own own, but that’s Ed for you.

And to put it into perspective btw, Norway is one of the world’s biggest gas exporters. They sell us their gas so we don’t have to use our own. Brilliant.
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Do me a favour!

Norway put their oil wealth into a sovereign wealth fund.

Thatcher blew ours with tax cuts for the already wealthy and sold off the family silver. We lost over 40% of our manufacturing industry under her reckless leadership.

You have a very selective memory.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Do me a favour!

Norway put their oil wealth into a sovereign wealth fund.

Thatcher blew ours with tax cuts for the already wealthy and sold off the family silver. We lost over 40% of our manufacturing industry under her reckless leadership.

You have a very selective memory.
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And you are not mentioning why we lost 40% of our manufacturing industry ;-)

If it was brilliant, we wouldn't have lost it. Make quality products at competitive prices and your business thrives. Many of our businesses didn't do that and went bust. But it wasn't like Thatcher put them into administration.

Now you may have advocated an interventionist approach to save failing industries with subsidies and bailouts. That's a point of view and I think there may have been some situations where that might have been sensible.

But it was not Thatcher's ethos. She passionately believed that businesses must stand on their own two feet and it was not up to the tax payer to throw money at failing businesses, so she let them fail. But she didn't put the out of business: they did that themselves.

Agreed re : Norway though!
 
The perfect fumble said:
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Sorry I know one should have an open mind but I flatly refuse to listen to a single word that bloke utters. I can't stand the the bloke. That's just how it is.

Did he explain how someone took TinFoilHat's money off him, and what money was it that TinFoilHat had before it was taken off him?

Anyway, I don't like arguing with you, you're not dim ;-)

Have a good evening.
 
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