Cricket Thread

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Nice restful evening and night for those cramped muscles (and treating them with whatever you treat them with), then Stokesy'll come back tomorrow and hammer out his century. Now that would be a fine thing.

Lead of anywhere between 200 and 250, and India will be fairly depressed going in. To think that you've got to get that, merely to make the other side bat again.
And a bit of deterioration in the pitch would be in order. Not too much, because we'll have to bat again too.

 

[BringBackSwales]

Still a slim chance then.....just

Best Glamorgan once and draw the other I’d say a good chance

 

[BringBackSwales]

We play Glamorgan on Tuesday at OT

And then the return fixture sept 24 last game of the season

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Apparently - it was a decade or so before my time - Grace was to cricket what Donald Trump is to golf - an utter cheat. He refused to be or until he decided to be out. Utter **** by all accounts

“Taking advantage was second nature to the Graces, never infringing the laws but exploiting them to the full. In bowling too, E.M. (Grace) was the trailblazer, using the old underarm method…

… Perhaps the most notorious incident of this kind occurred at a crucial stage in the England-Australia match of 1882. As Wisden records, the young Australian S.P. Jones had completed a run, and ‘thinking wrongly but very naturally that the ball was dead, went out of his ground’ to repair the wicket. Grace put down the wicket and appealed for run out… the batsman had to go, but it was not within the spirit of the game. Wisden made light of it:

There was a good deal of truth in what a gentleman in the crowd remarked, amid some laughter, that Jones ought to thank the champion for teaching him something.

However, the champion seems to have deliberately misled Jones by carrying the ball over to the bowler, by which time the batsman was well out of his ground, then walked back and broke the wicket. [My italics].

.… WGs encyclopædic knowledge of the laws, disregard of convention, dominant personality and standing with the public put umpires in awe of him, and he grew worse as his fame spread. When cricket matches could be advertised as ‘Admission theepence. If W.G. Grace plays admission sixpence’, it is not surprising that umpires were reluctant to give him out until the spectators had got their money's worth… WG was so popular that accounts of his gamesmanship more often than not added to the fund of humorous stories about him [my comment: yeah, right!]. In particular the public loved — and still love — to hear the one about him being bowled first ball, replacing the bails and brushing aside the protesting umpire with ‘Don't be silly, they've come to see me bat, not you, umpire’ ”.

Derek Birley, A Social History of English Cricket (2003)

 

[Vienna_70]

People remember the legendary seasons — rightly so — but was it not the case that Botham had some pretty ropey seasons for England? Seem to remember that, but may be mistaken.

I think, like all top sportsmen and women, he had poor spells, but I don’t remember him having a whole season, where he didn’t perform well for England.

 

[AliBobbyJ]

Probably a slightly better batsman and a slightly worse bowler.

Far better captain though.

Mike Brearley is often hailed as England's best captain. He lost only 4 or 5 Tests, I think. He was and is a highly intelligent guy. But how does his more modest Test average (20-something?) stack up compared to other cricket captains before or since?

 

[waspish]

The other day, I heard one of the commentators compare Stokes to Botham.

Is the current England captain really that good?

I can’t see it myself.

It’s close very close watched botham from 79 he was some player a big game player especially against the Aussies!

Stokes also big game player won games single handed..

Stat wise botham as a wicket taker is far superior getting 27 5 wicket innings and 4 10 wicket innings!
runs wise think Stoke just edges it! Stokes Bowling now for me is the best he has been but he has only 8 5 wicket hauls, Also his captaincy far better than Bothams.

55% Botham
45% Stokes

 

[waspish]

Nearly 200 ahead now. If sunday is a bit iffy weather wise, would Stokes consider declaring at lunch (if we last that long)?

Think if we don’t lose a wicket we bowl till 12:25 tomorrow but think there maybe rain early then clearing for rest of the day

 

[shemnel]

Just had 2 magnificent days at the test, enjoyed the cricket and the weather and the beers. England firmly on top now but will surely be strategizing about what lead to go for considering the pitch and the weather to come.

Congrats to Root.

 

[Vienna_70]

Mike Brearley is often hailed as England's best captain. He lost only 4 or 5 Tests, I think. He was and is a highly intelligent guy. But how does his more modest Test average (20-something?) stack up compared to other cricket captains before or since?

Mike Brierley was a brilliant captain and worth his place in the side for that alone.

He was like a cricketing father-figure to Botham, especially during the 1981 Ashes series.

I don’t think his test batting average is very good, compared to other captains, but he more than made up for it in his astute leadership.

 

[Vienna_70]

It’s close very close watched botham from 79 he was some player a big game player especially against the Aussies!

Stokes also big game player won games single handed..

Stat wise botham as a wicket taker is far superior getting 27 5 wicket innings and 4 10 wicket innings!
runs wise think Stoke just edges it! Stokes Bowling now for me is the best he has been but he has only 8 5 wicket hauls, Also his captaincy far better than Bothams.

55% Botham
45% Stokes

That’s a great answer. Mate.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

I think, like all top sportsmen and women, he had poor spells, but I don’t remember him having a whole season, where he didn’t perform well for England.

Yeah just rewatched the moving documentary on Youtube, Botham: the Legend of ‘81, for about the third time over the years. To refresh my memory.
It's up and down. He came into the England side and was untouchable as a player for about three years. Then was given the captaincy, which was disastrous, both to his personal form and the performance of the England team. Was relieved of the captaincy in the ’81 Ashes series and the rest is history. He was like one of the big cats let out of the ‘cage’ of captaincy.
Problem is, he basically became a rock star overnight, at least in his own country. How many cricketers does that happen to? Had some ropey series, especially overseas, between ’82 and ‘86. Not all, but some. Came roaring back in ’86.
So it's a bit up and down, not all plain sailing. Because he was a complex man.
One thing that's unambiguous: he played in seven Ashes series, and was a winner in five of them. Not bad, not bad at all.
Strongly recommend it if you haven't ever watched it.

 

[AliBobbyJ]

Mike Brierley was a brilliant captain and worth his place in the side for that alone.

He was like a cricketing father-figure to Botham, especially during the 1981 Ashes series.

I don’t think his test batting average is very good, compared to other captains, but he more than made up for it in his astute leadership.

Thoughtful answer to my poorly articulated question.

Here's a bit of FOC nostalgia for you. "England & Australia 1948. The Lord's Ashes Test. Classic Cricket Films." (youtube.)

The post-war crowds celebrating the return of a friendlier kind of contest. John Arlott on commentary, smoking up a storm. And a vanished era.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Thoughtful answer to my poorly articulated question.

Here's a bit of FOC nostalgia for you. "England & Australia 1948. The Lord's Ashes Test. Classic Cricket Films." (youtube.)

The post-war crowds celebrating the return of a friendlier kind of contest. John Arlott on commentary, smoking up a storm. And a vanished era.

Re. Arlott, a little anecdote. Many years ago, I worked with a bloke who, for some reason, attended a lunch which Arlott was at. It's well known that Arlott was an enthusiastic wine bibber — knowledgeable, too. According to this colleague, Arlott got hold of the bottle and completely hogged it. I think I remember him saying that they had to bring a second bottle, and Arlott took charge of that, too. Laker was present, and visibly irritated.

 

[EastMidlandsBlue]

I couldn't begin to tell you which of them I think was better, however my claim to fame is that I'm one of the few people who was at Headingley to witness both Bothams 149* and Stokes 135*.

Both occasions being the loudest I've heard a cricket ground

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Mike Brearley is often hailed as England's best captain. He lost only 4 or 5 Tests, I think. He was and is a highly intelligent guy. But how does his more modest Test average (20-something?) stack up compared to other cricket captains before or since?

Probably the worst, but if he won games, he was worth his spot!

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

It’s close very close watched botham from 79 he was some player a big game player especially against the Aussies!

Stokes also big game player won games single handed..

Stat wise botham as a wicket taker is far superior getting 27 5 wicket innings and 4 10 wicket innings!
runs wise think Stoke just edges it! Stokes Bowling now for me is the best he has been but he has only 8 5 wicket hauls, Also his captaincy far better than Bothams.

55% Botham
45% Stokes

Interesting. I agree with your overall conclusion. A couple of points of difference for me is that Stokes is captain whereas Beefy only was for a short time. No one asks Stokes to lead by example - he sees the need and/or opportunity and takes it on himself. A subtle difference.
Secondly, I always thought Botham was a top class basemen and might have been if he didn’t concentrate on his bowling too. Botham played straight and his big hitting came from that solid foundation.
Much as I ove Ben Stokes I’d go 60 for Botham and 40 Stokes

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Interesting. I agree with your overall conclusion. A couple of points of difference for me is that Stokes is captain whereas Beefy only was for a short time. No one asks Stokes to lead by example - he sees the need and/or opportunity and takes it on himself. A subtle difference.
Secondly, I always thought Botham was a top class basemen and might have been if he didn’t concentrate on his bowling too. Botham played straight and his big hitting came from that solid foundation.
Much as I ove Ben Stokes I’d go 60 for Botham and 40 Stokes

Botham was also a very good slip fielder.

 

[Vienna_70]

Yeah just rewatched the moving documentary on Youtube, Botham: the Legend of ‘81, for about the third time over the years. To refresh my memory.
It's up and down. He came into the England side and was untouchable as a player for about three years. Then was given the captaincy, which was disastrous, both to his personal form and the performance of the England team. Was relieved of the captaincy in the ’81 Ashes series and the rest is history. He was like one of the big cats let out of the ‘cage’ of captaincy.
Problem is, he basically became a rock star overnight, at least in his own country. How many cricketers does that happen to? Had some ropey series, especially overseas, between ’82 and ‘86. Not all, but some. Came roaring back in ’86.
So it's a bit up and down, not all plain sailing. Because he was a complex man.
One thing that's unambiguous: he played in seven Ashes series, and was a winner in five of them. Not bad, not bad at all.
Strongly recommend it if you haven't ever watched it.

Thanks for the recommendation.

I will give it a go soon.

I was a big fan of Botham; I loved his cavalier approach to the game.

 

[Vienna_70]

I couldn't begin to tell you which of them I think was better, however my claim to fame is that I'm one of the few people who was at Headingley to witness both Bothams 149* and Stokes 135*.

Both occasions being the loudest I've heard a cricket ground

I know we can’t say definitively, but I very much doubt that there will ever be another test match like Headingley '81.

It’s still the only instance of a team winning a test match, after following on in this country.