Cricket Thread

[AliBobbyJ]

Probably a slightly better batsman and a slightly worse bowler.

Far better captain though.

Mike Brearley is often hailed as England's best captain. He lost only 4 or 5 Tests, I think. He was and is a highly intelligent guy. But how does his more modest Test average (20-something?) stack up compared to other cricket captains before or since?

 

[waspish]

The other day, I heard one of the commentators compare Stokes to Botham.

Is the current England captain really that good?

I can’t see it myself.

It’s close very close watched botham from 79 he was some player a big game player especially against the Aussies!

Stokes also big game player won games single handed..

Stat wise botham as a wicket taker is far superior getting 27 5 wicket innings and 4 10 wicket innings!
runs wise think Stoke just edges it! Stokes Bowling now for me is the best he has been but he has only 8 5 wicket hauls, Also his captaincy far better than Bothams.

55% Botham
45% Stokes

 

[waspish]

Nearly 200 ahead now. If sunday is a bit iffy weather wise, would Stokes consider declaring at lunch (if we last that long)?

Think if we don’t lose a wicket we bowl till 12:25 tomorrow but think there maybe rain early then clearing for rest of the day

 

[shemnel]

Just had 2 magnificent days at the test, enjoyed the cricket and the weather and the beers. England firmly on top now but will surely be strategizing about what lead to go for considering the pitch and the weather to come.

Congrats to Root.

 

[Vienna_70]

Mike Brearley is often hailed as England's best captain. He lost only 4 or 5 Tests, I think. He was and is a highly intelligent guy. But how does his more modest Test average (20-something?) stack up compared to other cricket captains before or since?

Mike Brierley was a brilliant captain and worth his place in the side for that alone.

He was like a cricketing father-figure to Botham, especially during the 1981 Ashes series.

I don’t think his test batting average is very good, compared to other captains, but he more than made up for it in his astute leadership.

 

[Vienna_70]

It’s close very close watched botham from 79 he was some player a big game player especially against the Aussies!

Stokes also big game player won games single handed..

Stat wise botham as a wicket taker is far superior getting 27 5 wicket innings and 4 10 wicket innings!
runs wise think Stoke just edges it! Stokes Bowling now for me is the best he has been but he has only 8 5 wicket hauls, Also his captaincy far better than Bothams.

55% Botham
45% Stokes

That’s a great answer. Mate.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

I think, like all top sportsmen and women, he had poor spells, but I don’t remember him having a whole season, where he didn’t perform well for England.

Yeah just rewatched the moving documentary on Youtube, Botham: the Legend of ‘81, for about the third time over the years. To refresh my memory.
It's up and down. He came into the England side and was untouchable as a player for about three years. Then was given the captaincy, which was disastrous, both to his personal form and the performance of the England team. Was relieved of the captaincy in the ’81 Ashes series and the rest is history. He was like one of the big cats let out of the ‘cage’ of captaincy.
Problem is, he basically became a rock star overnight, at least in his own country. How many cricketers does that happen to? Had some ropey series, especially overseas, between ’82 and ‘86. Not all, but some. Came roaring back in ’86.
So it's a bit up and down, not all plain sailing. Because he was a complex man.
One thing that's unambiguous: he played in seven Ashes series, and was a winner in five of them. Not bad, not bad at all.
Strongly recommend it if you haven't ever watched it.

 

[AliBobbyJ]

Mike Brierley was a brilliant captain and worth his place in the side for that alone.

He was like a cricketing father-figure to Botham, especially during the 1981 Ashes series.

I don’t think his test batting average is very good, compared to other captains, but he more than made up for it in his astute leadership.

Thoughtful answer to my poorly articulated question.

Here's a bit of FOC nostalgia for you. "England & Australia 1948. The Lord's Ashes Test. Classic Cricket Films." (youtube.)

The post-war crowds celebrating the return of a friendlier kind of contest. John Arlott on commentary, smoking up a storm. And a vanished era.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Thoughtful answer to my poorly articulated question.

Here's a bit of FOC nostalgia for you. "England & Australia 1948. The Lord's Ashes Test. Classic Cricket Films." (youtube.)

The post-war crowds celebrating the return of a friendlier kind of contest. John Arlott on commentary, smoking up a storm. And a vanished era.

Re. Arlott, a little anecdote. Many years ago, I worked with a bloke who, for some reason, attended a lunch which Arlott was at. It's well known that Arlott was an enthusiastic wine bibber — knowledgeable, too. According to this colleague, Arlott got hold of the bottle and completely hogged it. I think I remember him saying that they had to bring a second bottle, and Arlott took charge of that, too. Laker was present, and visibly irritated.

 

[EastMidlandsBlue]

I couldn't begin to tell you which of them I think was better, however my claim to fame is that I'm one of the few people who was at Headingley to witness both Bothams 149* and Stokes 135*.

Both occasions being the loudest I've heard a cricket ground

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Mike Brearley is often hailed as England's best captain. He lost only 4 or 5 Tests, I think. He was and is a highly intelligent guy. But how does his more modest Test average (20-something?) stack up compared to other cricket captains before or since?

Probably the worst, but if he won games, he was worth his spot!

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

It’s close very close watched botham from 79 he was some player a big game player especially against the Aussies!

Stokes also big game player won games single handed..

Stat wise botham as a wicket taker is far superior getting 27 5 wicket innings and 4 10 wicket innings!
runs wise think Stoke just edges it! Stokes Bowling now for me is the best he has been but he has only 8 5 wicket hauls, Also his captaincy far better than Bothams.

55% Botham
45% Stokes

Interesting. I agree with your overall conclusion. A couple of points of difference for me is that Stokes is captain whereas Beefy only was for a short time. No one asks Stokes to lead by example - he sees the need and/or opportunity and takes it on himself. A subtle difference.
Secondly, I always thought Botham was a top class basemen and might have been if he didn’t concentrate on his bowling too. Botham played straight and his big hitting came from that solid foundation.
Much as I ove Ben Stokes I’d go 60 for Botham and 40 Stokes

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Interesting. I agree with your overall conclusion. A couple of points of difference for me is that Stokes is captain whereas Beefy only was for a short time. No one asks Stokes to lead by example - he sees the need and/or opportunity and takes it on himself. A subtle difference.
Secondly, I always thought Botham was a top class basemen and might have been if he didn’t concentrate on his bowling too. Botham played straight and his big hitting came from that solid foundation.
Much as I ove Ben Stokes I’d go 60 for Botham and 40 Stokes

Botham was also a very good slip fielder.

 

[Vienna_70]

Yeah just rewatched the moving documentary on Youtube, Botham: the Legend of ‘81, for about the third time over the years. To refresh my memory.
It's up and down. He came into the England side and was untouchable as a player for about three years. Then was given the captaincy, which was disastrous, both to his personal form and the performance of the England team. Was relieved of the captaincy in the ’81 Ashes series and the rest is history. He was like one of the big cats let out of the ‘cage’ of captaincy.
Problem is, he basically became a rock star overnight, at least in his own country. How many cricketers does that happen to? Had some ropey series, especially overseas, between ’82 and ‘86. Not all, but some. Came roaring back in ’86.
So it's a bit up and down, not all plain sailing. Because he was a complex man.
One thing that's unambiguous: he played in seven Ashes series, and was a winner in five of them. Not bad, not bad at all.
Strongly recommend it if you haven't ever watched it.

Thanks for the recommendation.

I will give it a go soon.

I was a big fan of Botham; I loved his cavalier approach to the game.

 

[Vienna_70]

I couldn't begin to tell you which of them I think was better, however my claim to fame is that I'm one of the few people who was at Headingley to witness both Bothams 149* and Stokes 135*.

Both occasions being the loudest I've heard a cricket ground

I know we can’t say definitively, but I very much doubt that there will ever be another test match like Headingley '81.

It’s still the only instance of a team winning a test match, after following on in this country.

 

[SWP's back]

Choosing to bowl is a blunder with the forecast as it is. Pavlovian.

Feeling more confident now Johnny?

 

[Corky]

I know we can’t say definitively, but I very much doubt that there will ever be another test match like Headingley '81.

It’s still the only instance of a team winning a test match, after following on in this country.

And Stokes managed to lose a test where he enforced the follow on, the one run loss after declaring too.

 

[johnny crossan]

Feeling more confident now Johnny?

Looking like he got lucky again.

 

[fanatic1]

It’s close very close watched botham from 79 he was some player a big game player especially against the Aussies!

Stokes also big game player won games single handed..

Stat wise botham as a wicket taker is far superior getting 27 5 wicket innings and 4 10 wicket innings!
runs wise think Stoke just edges it! Stokes Bowling now for me is the best he has been but he has only 8 5 wicket hauls, Also his captaincy far better than Bothams.

55% Botham
45% Stokes

In the Botham era the stand out cricketing nation was the West Indies and they used to thrash England on a regular basis. Botham's batting average against them was 15 and his bowling average (per wicket) was 50. Also the Aussies were in the Kerry Packer era and were unable to utilise their best players.

 

[jimharri]

So; what are we thinking? Bat the innings out (presuming Stokes will continue his innings today), and take a chance on the Manchester weather? Or bat for maybe another 60-90 minutes and declare (if we last that long, our tail isn't very "waggy")?