The Labour Government

[Vic]

Interesting yes. This stood out for me, "Relative to 2019, the government has put a lot more money into public services, increasing inputs. However, in some services – healthcare in particular – there has not been a commensurate increase in activity. Between 2019 and 2023, staffing levels in the NHS increased by almost 20%, but key measures of activity remained broadly flat."

So 20% more staff (and presumably cost) resulting in no more output. Shocking.

It might be shocking if there was an obvious reason to make it shocking. I don't think you had read the source material for the bit you quoted. There were suggestions as to why productivity might not be as bad as the simple stats - people are sicker after Covid, it doesn't entirely reflect the impact of an aging population, or the bed-blocking.

This stood out for me: "Measuring NHS productivity is far from easy. A simple count of how many patients are being treated in hospital does not account for changes in the quality of care, the amount of care each patient requires, or changes in the volume of care provided in non-hospital settings. But because more sophisticated estimates of healthcare productivity (such as those produced by the Office for National Statistics and the University of York) come out only with a lag of more than a year, any attempt at real-time monitoring must use simpler metrics. Even with those caveats, it looks to us that the NHS does have an ongoing productivity problem."

 

[Blue Maverick]

Well my water bill just shot up £5 a month thats a 15% rise, I suppose I’ve got to pay for those bonuses and no extra reservoirs or infrastructure plus dumping shit in the rivers.

 

[Chippy_boy]

This stood out for me: "Measuring NHS productivity is far from easy.

Well there's a surprise.

Even with those caveats, it looks to us that the NHS does have an ongoing productivity problem."

That's more like it!

 

[Vic]

Well there's a surprise.

That's more like it!

I hope you're not upset that I didn't have to scour the internet for that but just had a closer look at what you'd scoured the internet for.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I hope you're not upset that I didn't have to scour the internet for that but just had a closer look at what you'd scoured the internet for.

Me, scoured the internet??? It was a direct quote from the article linked on here that someone invited me to read you pratt.

 

[Vic]

Me, scoured the internet??? It was a direct quote from the article linked on here that someone invited me to read you pratt.

Sorry for that, not paying proper attention. I was half-watching a documentary about the proposed wartime union of GB and France.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Sorry for that, not paying proper attention. I was half-watching a documentary about the proposed wartime union of GB and France.

No worries and no apologies necessary! Have a good evening :-)

 

[BigJoe#1]

Must admit election night was somewhat bitter sweet for me, the Tories got a much deserved kicking, Reform got a foothold in Parliament, but the British people in their infinite wisdom elected a lefty government at a time when our debt to gdp ratio is 100%.

So now we get to watch them govern the country with no money to spend and a bunch of people with political training but no apparent expertise or experience in charge. If you can remove yourself from the tragedy of it, it's strangely humorous in a dark kind of way.

Summed up quite nicely by the sight of the Chancellor blubbing away in the commons, regardless of whether you believe the story of the personal issues being the main cause, it's hard not to assume that the fact she's making a total pigs ear of the country's finances isn't giving her sleepless nights.

It's a constant puzzle to me that the progressive type can't get their heads round the fact that raising taxes reduces the tax take, due to the second order effects of higher taxes, but here we go again as a Labour chancellor responds to a growing deficit (est £51 billion shortfall) caused by a flagging economy, out of control government spending and inefficient public services, with drumroll, wait for it, higher taxes. Wonder how that will play out? Spoiler alert, badly.

How did we get here? Politicians refusing to address the underlying problems in the economy, because that's quite difficult and unpopular, and instead continuing to increase public spending beyond the levels that can be sustained and sticking the excess on the country's credit card.

Oh but the government can't go bankrupt said the experts, we can just print the money. Well yes, kind of, but what happens when that debt accumulates to the point when servicing the debt becomes an additional drag on government finances and the debt is the same size as your national income? Good question that eh? I'm no expert, but I reckon the answer is that we're screwed.

So sit back, watch our useless politicians attempt to keep the ponzi scheme going for as long as possible, and argue with strangers on the internet to pass the time, you never know Starmer, Reeves and Raynor might just prove me wrong. Lol

Excellent and pretty accurate summary of the current predicament.

 

[Kompany Car]

You literally only had to scroll up a few posts ......

Sorry I'm confused.

When Labour came in they said it was a 20Bn black hole, they then introduced policies to fill the black hole. According to the above in May it was reported that it was a 60Bn hole but now its 41.2Bn ?

So 20Bn - (income from changes) = 41.2Bn doesn't that mean its grown by more than 21.2Bn in 12 months ?

Surely thats not positive news.

 

[Metal Biker]

Sorry I'm confused.

When Labour came in they said it was a 20Bn black hole, they then introduced policies to fill the black hole. According to the above in May it was reported that it was a 60Bn hole but now its 41.2Bn ?

So 20Bn - (income from changes) = 41.2Bn doesn't that mean its grown by more than 21.2Bn in 12 months ?

Surely thats not positive news.

It's what he does.

 

[hilts]

Well my water bill just shot up £5 a month thats a 15% rise, I suppose I’ve got to pay for those bonuses and no extra reservoirs or infrastructure plus dumping shit in the rivers.

Nice summer, supply and demand:-)

 

[hilts]

It's what he does.

The Tories didn't tell them about even more hidden black holes, all Downing St staff have been told not to open any more drawers under any circumstances. The Gardner has also had his spade confiscated.

 

[Kompany Car]

Regardless of holes, black holes or even worm holes, they need to raise tax receipts and the simple way it to swallow their pride and put a penny on income tax or NI or both.

The document below gives the estimated revenue from making these changes.
https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...llustrative-tax-changes-bulletin-january-2025

Roughly 1p on the basic, higher and additional rate together, by 2027, would be raising 10.5Bn per annum.

Reversing the 2p cut in NI would result in a similar tax yield of 10.6Bn per annum.

Would they lose political capital absolutely, but fiddling while Rome burns is equally bad.

 

[hilts]

Regardless of holes, black holes or even worm holes, they need to raise tax receipts and the simple way it to swallow their pride and put a penny on income tax or NI or both.

The document below gives the estimated revenue from making these changes.
https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...llustrative-tax-changes-bulletin-january-2025

Roughly 1p on the basic, higher and additional rate together, by 2027, would be raising 10.5Bn per annum.

Reversing the 2p cut in NI would result in a similar tax yield of 10.6Bn per annum.

Would they lose political capital absolutely, but fiddling while Rome burns is equally bad.

Paye stiffs take the hit again, a tax rise and a concerted effort to get others to pay their fair share please.

Sick of corps taking the piss and roofers having their 5th jolly to Spain this year. Plenty of beers and golf can be bought with the 'discount for cash' and personal allowance saving for the wife who works part time at the firm, honest she does.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Paye stiffs take the hit again, a tax rise and a concerted effort to get others to pay their fair share please.

Sick of corps taking the piss and roofers having their 5th jolly to Spain this year. Plenty of beers and golf can be bought with the 'discount for cash' and personal allowance saving for the wife who works part time at the firm, honest she does.

Ye I always think that, maybe a fairer way is put VAT up then everyone pays their fair share, Labour should’ve been honest from the start and said look it’s a shit show worse than we thought and we are going to have to go back on a few promises, at least then everyone would know where they stood

 

[blueinsa]

Ye I always think that, maybe a fairer way is put VAT up then everyone pays their fair share, Labour should’ve been honest from the start and said look it’s a shit show worse than we thought and we are going to have to go back on a few promises, at least then everyone would know where they stood

A VAT rise again disproportionately affects the poorest.

 

[hampshireblue]

Excellent and pretty accurate summary of the current predicament.

Any solutions on the "current predicament" Joe? Oh, I know, anything that doesn't involve Joe paying a penny more tax.

 

[Blue Maverick]

A VAT rise again disproportionately affects the poorest.

But everyone pays, so even all the cash in hand twats have to spend it and will pay a share on it, unfortunately you’ll never please everyone.

 

[Ohrodneyrodney]

Ye I always think that, maybe a fairer way is put VAT up then everyone pays their fair share, Labour should’ve been honest from the start and said look it’s a shit show worse than we thought and we are going to have to go back on a few promises, at least then everyone would know where they stood

Isn’t that exactly what they did say? Most new governments say the same thing, but then don’t have the stomach to take the action needed.

 

[hampshireblue]

A VAT rise again disproportionately affects the poorest.

Not if it's done on higher values items-say above £300. Chuck in VAT on private healthcare and VAT on fuel for private jets. I would also have higher VAT on high usage of gas/electricity. A friend of my brother has an indoor pool that is heated the whole winter at a cost of approx £8000, yet he still pays the same rate of VAT as you and me for normal heating. Not sure at what level the rise should kick in but there are ways to make the higher users pay a bit more. The same bloke is all in favour of a "wealth" tax, although what counts as wealth is a moot point. He reckons he could pay 20% and would barely notice.