It's Quiet the £250m return

BillyShears said:
People said similar things about David Silva when he came to England. Not saying Cherki will become Silva, but I'd probably be giving it more than a game and a half before writing off someone positionally.

Also I'd be giving it more than one performance at home before writing off a new team, new coaches, and new tactics.
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People slagging off Cherki not aimed at you , when in that Tottenham game he created most of our best opportunities, the cross to Haaland if Haaland could use his head that's an assist. He didn't have a bad game. He's done better than 150 million pound Wirtz.

 
oldius said:
Good post.
I love the aggressive press.
It's a bit early to judge though as it looks like a couple of teams have reduced their intensity, while Spurs have massively increased theirs.
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Last season was a pretty big outlier in terms of how and where we pressed. This season it's clear we're already much improved. Oscar Bobb has become a bit of a pressing trigger for our whole team now in a way that I can't really remember anyone being since Gabriel Jesus or when Phil was playing false 9.

A lot of people are using the Spurs game to confirm whatever previously held biases they have about City at present, which just feels very reductive. We didn't lose because our press was bad. We didn't control the ENTIRE 90 minutes because our press wasn't perfect, for sure. But the game was made of a bunch of different factors which led to the defeat. The biggest being not taking a few clear cut chances (IMO because we're still in the preseason phase of our conditioning and sharpness).
 
BillyShears said:
Last season was a pretty big outlier in terms of how and where we pressed. This season it's clear we're already much improved. Oscar Bobb has become a bit of a pressing trigger for our whole team now in a way that I can't really remember anyone being since Gabriel Jesus or when Phil was playing false 9.

A lot of people are using the Spurs game to confirm whatever previously held biases they have about City at present, which just feels very reductive. We didn't lose because our press was bad. We didn't control the ENTIRE 90 minutes because our press wasn't perfect, for sure. But the game was made of a bunch of different factors which led to the defeat. The biggest being not taking a few clear cut chances (IMO because we're still in the preseason phase of our conditioning and sharpness).
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AGREED...with bells on.
 
Gumzy97 said:
People slagging off Cherki not aimed at you , when in that Tottenham game he created most of our best opportunities, the cross to Haaland if Haaland could use his head that's an assist. He didn't have a bad game.

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The arse fell out of the team when Guardiola subbed Bernardo on for him. It's also when we started giving away far more transitions as Bernardo gave the ball away and/or lost the ball three or four times in the 15 minute spell before Pep moved him to the right side and put Phil in the middle. Cherki wasn't a problem. People expecting him to press like KDB are setting themselves up for disappointment.
 
BillyShears said:
The arse fell out of the team when Guardiola subbed Bernardo on for him. It's also when we started giving away far more transitions as Bernardo gave the ball away and/or lost the ball three or four times in the 15 minute spell before Pep moved him to the right side and put Phil in the middle. Cherki wasn't a problem. People expecting him to press like KDB are setting themselves up for disappointment.
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Pep brought Bernardo on for control but then we lost our main creativity. I dont think midfield and attack are an issue. Wingers could be more productive I guess, but it's mainly the defence just watching those clips there, the amount space behind our full backs it's bad. With Walker you can allow that space but we don't have that pace anymore covering us. If Tottenham win the ball back in those clips they are one over the top ball from being 1v1 against Trafford.
 
BillyShears said:
People said similar things about David Silva when he came to England. Not saying Cherki will become Silva, but I'd probably be giving it more than a game and a half before writing off someone positionally.

Also I'd be giving it more than one performance at home before writing off a new team, new coaches, and new tactics.
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There is no patience anymore Billy.
 
Gumzy97 said:
Pep brought Bernardo on for control but then we lost our main creativity. I dont think midfield and attack are an issue. Wingers could be more productive I guess, but it's mainly the defence just watching those clips there, the amount space behind our full backs it's bad. With Walker you can allow that space but we don't have that pace anymore covering us. If Tottenham win the ball back in those clips they are one over the top ball from being 1v1 against Trafford.
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Zinchenko was never quick and we were often 'exposed' down our left hand side. It's a reality any team playing with a high line faces. Doesn't worry me at all because we've been here tons of times throughout Pep's tenure. We will improve in terms of where and how we give the ball away and win it back. Remember Spurs were something like six games into their season including a very intense Super Cup game.

There's no real big conclusions to be drawn from what happened on Saturday because it was such a game of fine margins and there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for why we were on the losing end of a couple of those fine margins.

If Guardiola's intention was to gain control with Bernardo, he will also have seen how dramatically it failed and how it not only exposed us defensively because of the number of poor turnovers, but also how it killed our fluidity between the lines on the pitch. Cherki was the one knitting together our midfield and attack and operating as the team's playmaker. Silva ran around trying to match Spurs' intensity and failed almost every time he was confronted by an opposition player.
 
eastmanc said:
There is no patience anymore Billy.
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Which is fine and the way of the world. I think most people are honest and believe what they're saying, it's just that I'd wait longer before extrapolating direct comparisons between this season and last season when we have practically a whole new team and a new way of playing.
 
Gumzy97 said:
Pep brought Bernardo on for control but then we lost our main creativity. I dont think midfield and attack are an issue. Wingers could be more productive I guess, but it's mainly the defence just watching those clips there, the amount space behind our full backs it's bad. With Walker you can allow that space but we don't have that pace anymore covering us. If Tottenham win the ball back in those clips they are one over the top ball from being 1v1 against Trafford.
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Brining Bernie on and thinking he’d provide control was fucking barmy, a wholly bizarre piece of management. Say what you want about Pep, but that defied logic. To then realise how bad and ship him out to the right wing to accommodate Phil just put the cherry on top, lol.
 
BillyShears said:
Zinchenko was never quick and we were often 'exposed' down our left hand side. It's a reality any team playing with a high line faces. Doesn't worry me at all because we've been here tons of times throughout Pep's tenure. We will improve in terms of where and how we give the ball away and win it back. Remember Spurs were something like six games into their season including a very intense Super Cup game.

There's no real big conclusions to be drawn from what happened on Saturday because it was such a game of fine margins and there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for why we were on the losing end of a couple of those fine margins.

If Guardiola's intention was to gain control with Bernardo, he will also have seen how dramatically it failed and how it not only exposed us defensively because of the number of poor turnovers, but also how it killed our fluidity between the lines on the pitch. Cherki was the one knitting together our midfield and attack and operating as the team's playmaker. Silva ran around trying to match Spurs' intensity and failed almost every time he was confronted by an opposition player.
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Concerns me that our two leading captains are not currently worthy of starting positions in the team.

Shows the lack of leadership we have in the squad.
 
BillyShears said:
Why? Has no baring on us winning football matches. Vinny remained captain throughout a period when he barely played football and Pep never replaced him unless I'm mistaken.
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Sorry, but I edited after I’d posted. Lack of leaders in the squad is not good. Doesn’t help when the chips are down. Saturday was crying out for leadership and someone to stick their foot in, we pussied out and lost pretty much every 50/50.
 
Rammy Blue said:
Sorry, but I edited after I’d posted. Lack of leaders in the squad is not good. Doesn’t help when the chips are down. Saturday was crying out for leadership and someone to stick their foot in, we pussied out and lost pretty much every 50/50.
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Whenever Pep's team hasn't done well at City the same things have been said. Players can't play the high line, lack of leadership, players not putting their foot in etc. I'm not having it.
 
BillyShears said:
Whenever Pep's team hasn't done well at City the same things have been said. Players can't play the high line, lack of leadership, players not putting their foot in etc. I'm not having it.
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We got bullied on Saturday, they were fitter, faster & stronger than us. You’re mistaking me for someone being overly negative mate, I know it was only one game and I certainly wasn’t losing my shit over it. I’ve been at both games so far and I trust my eyes on a lot of what I’ve seen over the 180 or so minutes.

I hope I’m wrong on my various thoughts, they are just what I class as the biggest issues. We don’t have a divine right to win the league every year, or compete, but when the same mistakes are being made then it bothers me.
 
BillyShears said:
They're six games into their season. We are obviously behind them in fitness. Couple that with all the chances we created has me very calm and excited for what's ahead.
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Exactly. Haaland & Marmoush both had chances which one another day hit the back of the net then we have the blatant penalty on Bobb. Plus we gifted Spurs the 2nd goal.

Couple more weeks of fitness and we'll hit the ground running imo.
 
BillyShears said:
The arse fell out of the team when Guardiola subbed Bernardo on for him. It's also when we started giving away far more transitions as Bernardo gave the ball away and/or lost the ball three or four times in the 15 minute spell before Pep moved him to the right side and put Phil in the middle. Cherki wasn't a problem. People expecting him to press like KDB are setting themselves up for disappointment.
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This is 100% correct imo. It was obvious at the time that taking Cherki off was the wrong decision. We’d just had our first period of sustained attacks in that 10 minute spell before he took him off and he was the one pulling the strings. I wouldn’t have changed anything right then as we were giving them something to think about and deal with with our attacks but if he was insistent on Bernardo coming on then Reijnders should have been the one to go he offered far less than Cherki on Saturday.

Cherki obviously doesn’t have the physicality to press like KDB but i think too much has been made up about his lack of pressing I thought he pressed a lot better than I expected him to given the ‘lazy tag’ that was thrown at him prior to signing and he looks in great shape. I suspect he will look back to the wolves game and that Bernardo comes back in for Cherki on Sunday but hope i’m wrong and as in your previous post Pep may see the error in his substitution.
 
BillyShears said:
They're six games into their season. We are obviously behind them in fitness. Couple that with all the chances we created has me very calm and excited for what's ahead.
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All the chances we created? Spurs had both more shots, and more shots on target, than we did.

At 0-2 down for the whole of the second half, we should have been throwing the kitchen sink at Spurs, but didn't have a shot on target in the second half until the 76th minute. That was a tame header straight at the keeper.

I admire your optimism and I do think we'll click, our manager and players are too good for it not to click at some point. But the Spurs game was absolutely not the beacon and hope of positivity we should be clinging on to.
 
Matt.D said:
This is 100% correct imo. It was obvious at the time that taking Cherki off was the wrong decision. We’d just had our first period of sustained attacks in that 10 minute spell before he took him off and he was the one pulling the strings. I wouldn’t have changed anything right then as we were giving them something to think about and deal with with our attacks but if he was insistent on Bernardo coming on then Reijnders should have been the one to go he offered far less than Cherki on Saturday.

Cherki obviously doesn’t have the physicality to press like KDB but i think too much has been made up about his lack of pressing I thought he pressed a lot better than I expected him to given the ‘lazy tag’ that was thrown at him prior to signing and he looks in great shape. I suspect he will look back to the wolves game and that Bernardo comes back in for Cherki on Sunday but hope i’m wrong and as in your previous post Pep may see the error in his substitution.
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I think it’s time for Rodders to start. Personally I’d be playing Rodders with Nico G and Reijnders in midfield.
 
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