PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Elbow beards]

Wow blast from the past, used to love them!!

 

[slbsn]

At the risk of replying to myself like a lunatic, I suppose that is the quandary for the FA and the PL. What do they do if someone doesn't admit guilt and doesn't cooperate with an investigation?

They don't have the powers to force evidence from third parties so they either have to charge and lose because there is insufficient evidence or not charge and reward potentially serious behaviour for which they have some, but not enough, evidence.

I have said before that I think this is the situation in which the PL found themselves in February 2023. My heart breaks for the cunts.

I think this is taking it a bit far. It would be wishful thinking to believe the PL went through this whole thing without a workable case or thinking they will lose. We also don't know for sure what the 3rd party disclosure rules are in a disciplinary case like this - even in court cases there are arguments over the law on this challenge - if they are English law CPR, they have some options to try.

 

[Coatigan]

I haven't read of all it yet - it is very very long - but there doesn't seem to be any angle for a claim by WH or LP. And certainly not by City. So it will be interesting if one transpires.

A very odd approach by the FA for such a serious charge to not appoint an external firm of solicitors and to not provide an independent expert supporting their case. But that just means losing was more likely not that there was no case to answer or that it was in some way a frivolous action.

The PL can't be said to have approached City the same way. If anything their general approach has been to double and triple up on barristers, experts and solicitors as we see in all their cases.

It does re-enforce how hard it is to prove such cases.

There's another thread on it specifically, but briefly, he had an offer from us which by all accounts he accepted. WH had a transfer fee by all reports agreed. Are both of those not then measurable items that they can argue real loss of quantifiable earnings? Sure, with us, there is no way of telling what impact not signing him had. But with both of them, the money they stood to gain before the investigation was real. I haven't read any of the verdict at all btw, just asking on basic principle.

 

[Gordyola]

Ooooh Alf calm down otherwise you’ll have one of those culinarily trombonist
Good god Audrey!

 

[mancboy]

At the risk of replying to myself like a lunatic, I suppose that is the quandary for the FA and the PL. What do they do if someone doesn't admit guilt and doesn't cooperate with an investigation?

They don't have the powers to force evidence from third parties so they either have to charge and lose because there is insufficient evidence or not charge and reward potentially serious behaviour for which they have some, but not enough, evidence.

I have said before that I think this is the situation in which the PL found themselves in February 2023. My heart breaks for the cunts.

Just remember you are talking about an organisation who argued with leicester about the veracity and reliability of a calendar and LOST.

 

[slbsn]

There's another thread on it specifically, but briefly, he had an offer from us which by all accounts he accepted. WH had a transfer fee by all reports agreed. Are both of those not then measurable items that they can argue real loss of quantifiable earnings? Sure, with us, there is no way of telling what impact not signing him had. But with both of them, the money they stood to gain before the investigation was real. I haven't read any of the verdict at all btw, just asking on basic principle.

No. In theory those 2 factors could be considered in quantifying a claim for damages. But on any basis the charge appears to have caused the "loss of a chance". For any claim to have any hope, as far as I can see, WH and LP would have to establish the whole charge was illegitimate. From the pages I have read, I doubt that is even close to being established.

 

[Coatigan]

No. In theory those 2 factors could be considered in quantifying a claim for damages. But on any basis the charge appears to have caused the "loss of a chance". For any claim to have any hope, as far as I can see, WH and LP would have to establish the whole charge was illegitimate. From the pages I have read, I doubt that is even close to being established.

What do you mean by illegitimate?

Not looking to derail the thread, (not that it was ever 'pure' anyway), but might in the future offer understanding if similar gets ultimately speculated on our own case down the line.

 

[slbsn]

What do you mean by illegitimate?

Not looking to derail the thread, (not that it was ever 'pure' anyway), but might in the future offer understanding if similar gets ultimately speculated on our own case down the line.

It doesn't mean just losing or even being criticised for elements of the case. It would need to be a finding that the case was baseless or worse (malice) IMO. The rules don't guarantee that the FA or PL win a complaint but clearly they assume good faith in the investigation and bringing the charge. If someone proves the case was brought in outright bad faith then that would be explosive.

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

Heard from a very reliable friend that Wirtz was done to City until liverpool offered 13 million more to his dad who manages him.
City offered 7 mill agent fees
Scousers offered 20 mill agent fees.
May not be true but only sharing what I have been told. Nowt to do with 115. Glad we didn't get him because he has been utter gash for Liverpool from what I have seen. Possibly would have suited Peps style more than Slots but we will never know.

Interesting at the very least.

 

[Coatigan]

It doesn't mean just losing or even being criticised for elements of the case. It would need to be a finding that the case was baseless or worse (malice) IMO. The rules don't guarantee that the FA or PL win a complaint but clearly they assume good faith in the investigation and bringing the charge. If someone proves the case was brought in outright bad faith then that would be explosive.

Probably why Paqueta's camp are happy to make such public noises and generate headlines, rather than just going ahead with a lawsuit quietly. They still benefit from the perception though, and maybe reinforce the perception that he is innocent and was hard done.

 

[thegoatsthegoat]

Our play isn’t too slow if it puts the striker into positions they should score & we’ve had plenty of them.
Warnock always talks about when he thought his team was doing well against City then 5 mins later he’s 3 down.

Our play is very slow, it is why we didn't create a bean second half and second half against Spurs. By definition we will create chances, there isn't a team on earth who doesn't no matter how bad they are

 

[thegoatsthegoat]

I thought you were arguing that they should have been shown the door 2 seasons ago, or even straight after the (second) treble. I (and others) consider a senseless idea which ignores the season after when that team not only did four in a row but missed out narrowly on back-to-back doubles. And one final question: what importance do you attach to our lengthy injury list in causing our miserable season when we only came third and got to the cup final?

I am repeating myself but I said if the rebuild had started after the treble then there is every chance the 4 in a row doesn't happen. I am glad it did.

The point remained at that point as a minimum we knew walker and bernardo wanted out. We didn't recognise other ageing players had reached their limit and we got over the line the year after. Had we slowly started our rebuild after the treble then we was in the best position to do so. A position of power, dominance and at our absolute peak to sign whoever we wanted. Instead we bough Doku and Kovacic.

 

[Centurions]

Heard from a very reliable friend that Wirtz was done to City until liverpool offered 13 million more to his dad who manages him.
City offered 7 mill agent fees
Scousers offered 20 mill agent fees.
May not be true but only sharing what I have been told. Nowt to do with 115. Glad we didn't get him because he has been utter gash for Liverpool from what I have seen. Possibly would have suited Peps style more than Slots but we will never know.

Are not agent fees (totals at least) not shown in the books nowadays? Won't be until the next one at least though.

 

[mexico1970]

Heard from a very reliable friend that Wirtz was done to City until liverpool offered 13 million more to his dad who manages him.
City offered 7 mill agent fees
Scousers offered 20 mill agent fees.
May not be true but only sharing what I have been told. Nowt to do with 115. Glad we didn't get him because he has been utter gash for Liverpool from what I have seen. Possibly would have suited Peps style more than Slots but we will never know.

The money in football is obscene now, nothing surprises me.

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

I am repeating myself but I said if the rebuild had started after the treble then there is every chance the 4 in a row doesn't happen. I am glad it did.

The point remained at that point as a minimum we knew walker and bernardo wanted out. We didn't recognise other ageing players had reached their limit and we got over the line the year after. Had we slowly started our rebuild after the treble then we was in the best position to do so. A position of power, dominance and at our absolute peak to sign whoever we wanted. Instead we bough Doku and Kovacic.

I think you should stick to Football Manager. When exactly do you think the rebuild should have begun? After we won the CL? After four in a row? Who should have gone? When? After the CL final there was no reason on earth to break up that team. Kyle Walker had shown interest in a move to Bayern but had decided he wanted to stay. Stupid to kick him out as a punishment, especially as there was no replacement anywhere near his level. And that's still a problem now he does need replacing. City fans have doubts about Lewis as a fullback and no-one else fits the bill. As for Bernardo he too was told he could leave if he really wanted too, as long as he attracted an acceptable offer. He didn't - but you're surely not saying we should not play him, or we should get rid simply because no-one thinks he's worth what we do.

Now, that's your slow start. What then? How would it be different to what the club has done? Or will you just wait and see and if in a couple of years we haven't done another treble assure us that you were ahead of the curve, got more "pelters" from your mates but read exactly what was going to happen in your tea leaves?

 

[surrounded by idiots]

If I put my wood on the wireless,it’d be unable to take the weight;)

 

[cheekybids]

Our play is very slow, it is why we didn't create a bean second half and second half against Spurs. By definition we will create chances, there isn't a team on earth who doesn't no matter how bad they are

put the chances away first half the 2nd half doesn’t matter. We’ve derailed the thread, let’s leave it there.

 

[heslops barnet]

The money in football is obscene now, nothing surprises me.

Come December I’ll be watching footballers on £350000 a week whilst I’ll be shivering under a blanket on the settee

 

[mexico1970]

Come December I’ll be watching footballers on £350000 a week whilst I’ll be shivering under a blanket on the settee

Don't be fucking selfish :)

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Two and a half fucking years we've been called cheats on every social media platform, every print paper, every football magazine and every fucking sports broadcast (TV and radio) and still fuck all has come out.

Absolute fucking disgrace.

From the start this was a pre-meditated attack on our owners by the PL and the whole fabric of the football media industry.

I fucking hope and pray that we've got some proof of colusion by the American Owners FA and the PL.

Cunts.

What has happened to Paqueta is very similar. He has been slaughtered for two years in the media. Even the FA lawyers now admit they were out of order. The FA had no evidence from the start, just hearsay and gossip. There was no independent scrutiny of the allegations and no one in our corrupt media even bothered asking questions. They just followed the FA propaganda. Sounds very familiar.