Charlie Kirk shot dead at Utah university

[SWP's back]

Well yeah in that sense. But if someone says to me it was a professional assassination, I'm thinking more that someone is being paid to do it. But agreed that it seems to be a skilled shooter.

When I said “professional marksman” I simply meant someone that was at sometime trained to, and paid to, shoot at things. I’ve also read wind gusts of 15mph there that day as well. If so, it makes the shot even more skilled.

 

[SWP's back]

Interesting he was currently pushing for the Epstein files to be published.

The perfect Horst Wessel, get an irritant out of the way, stoke up tensions, change the subject.

 

[Scottyboi]

Yeah, that was an impressive jump, my knees would have blown out! The footage of him limping is before the shooting; the theory is that the gun was down his trouser leg. Weird but plausible as he keeps his right leg completely straight.

Ahh makes sense.

 

[TinFoilHat]

do we know this shooter was far left ?

We don't.

Just the usual shit stirring MAGA cunts making up false allegations the shooter a black transgender Antifa ex Navy Seal who inscribed the communist manifesto onto each bullet found...

 

[SWP's back]

Washington Post has 140 here.

https://archive.ph/u1ox1

Al Jazeera

When and where Charlie Kirk was shot: A visual timeline

Charlie Kirk, 31, a well-known Trump ally and conservative activist in the US, has been shot dead in Utah.

www.aljazeera.com

Fox

Charlie Kirk shooting: Person of interest photos released by FBI | LiveNOW from FOX

The FBI has released photos of a person of interest in the shooting death of Charlie Kirk.

www.livenowfox.com

The Hill

Charlie Kirk assassin believed to have fired from roof; video shows person running

The at-large assassin who shot and killed conservative activist Charlie Kirk Wednesday likely fired from a nearby rooftop during an event at Utah Valley University (UVU), according to local officia…

thehill.com

Telegraph

Charlie Kirk suspect jumps from rooftop and flees scene in new video

Officials in Utah vow to pursue death penalty for gunman as they plead for public to help with manhunt

www.telegraph.co.uk

AP

Charlie Kirk assassinated at university event in Utah

Authorities say conservative activist Charlie Kirk was killed by a single shot in a targeted attack during an outdoor event Wednesday at Utah Valley University.

apnews.com

I’m gonna need more sources.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I've never heard of this guy and I suspect that's the case for 90% of the UK. I'm surprised the story is rumbling along as front page news over here.

The usual suspects insulting our fascist's to frame it as the white MLK has been murdered.

I see Farage can't help himself as usual.

 

[SWP's back]

Great work.

Not my own, but the copy and pasting was a struggle.

 

[meltonblue]

I admitted to not even knowing who he was until he died. So I tried to take a balanced view and be tolerant by forming an opinion from what information I was being served.

And based on the evidence in this thread he said a lot of stuff that I disagree with and have no time for. Equally, I've seen clips of debates where he makes sense. Someone else said it better than me regarding humans and being multi-dimensionsal. He would come across as a loving, family man, then say something which is extreme (to most people) regarding guns.

Still, him dying (and the way he died) is certainly not something to celebrate, or fitting, because he debated extremely sensitive topics and shared his own opinion. This is where I'll withdraw from this thread as you either have to be far left or far right and there's no room for reasoned debate without being pigeon holed and labelled.

Most people are saying they didn’t agree with his views and that he didn’t deserve to die for them. That’s neither a far right or far left perspective.

 

[flook]

Again, his wife seemed to be haply with him, so what he said must not have been bad in practice, no matter how he worded it (badly).

I am sure some Muslims have bad intentions, just like some Christians, or anyone.

I don't care what he claims about stealing spots. That's his imperative. I don't have to agree with it, sounds quite ridiculous.

Finally, Floyd was a scumbag by any definition, was also on fentanyl when he died, and the rest is him speculating, even if he is wrong.

I don't get what is this supposed to show? Chat GPT is quite accurate, yes, looks quite accurate to me.

None of this changes my position on Charlie Kirk, which is that despite having some bad takes(the biblical one about gays is quite awful, but then he had numerous gay friends), he didn't deserve to die, and anyone wishing him (or any political commentar) death is a bad person themselves.

you only read what you want to read don't you.

His wife was happy with him so that means he's a good guy? really? on what planet is this even remotely true? Fred West's wife was presumably happy with him too, does this make Fred the mass murderer West a good guy too? By your definition it does.

I agree, some Muslims do have bad intentions, as do some christians, some hindus', some sikhs, some atheists, some buddhists. I could go on. Thats not what Kirk said though is it. He restricted his comments to Muslims, He didn't use the word "some" he said, amongst other things, large muslim communities are threats. Surely you see the issue here, the, at best, islamophobia?

You say Floyd was a scumbag by any definition. That may be true, yet you think Kirk is a good guy? Despite all he has said? Why? I could take a guess, but I won't

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Agreed, and it’s not just the natural reluctance to kill a person, but the ability to calm yourself in what is a high pressure situation. The heart will be going, sweating, shaking etc., and even more so if you fully intend to escape without being caught or killed. Will my escape route be viable in the aftermath, what if I encounter security unexpectedly and so on? All this and more will be running through his head.

The shooter was not just skilled, but must have some training to counter his natural reactions in the moment and leading up to the moment.

SERE.

 

[pudge]

To any others saying “he never advocated for violence” or that all he did was “calmly debate”, some light reading from our friends at Reddit, including sources.

Charlie Kirk's Documented Calls for Political Violence (2012-2024)

Direct Calls for Death and Public Executions:

* Called for President Biden to receive "the death penalty for his crimes against America" (July 2023)\^1
* "Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised. I think at a certain age, its an initiation...What age should you start to see public executions?" - suggested children should watch (2024)\^2
* Called for "Nuremberg-style trials for every gender-affirming clinic doctor" invoking Nazi war crimes imagery (April 2024)\^3

Calling for Lethal Force Against Migrants and Minorities:

* Advocated lethal force against migrants: "If you enter, we have lethal force, and we're willing to use it" and "You can start with firing next to them" (March 2024)\^4
* Advocated using whips against migrants, asking "Why is that controversial?"\^5
* Warned of "enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes" requiring armed response\^6
* Directed supporters: "Buy weapons. Buy ammo. If you go into a public place, bring a gun with you"\^7

Violent Anti-LGBTQ+ Statements:

* Said he "would've loved" if fathers "formed a line" to physically confront transgender athletes: "you're going to have to come through us"\^8
* Called transgender people "an abomination" and "a throbbing middle finger to God"\^9
* Advocated handling LGBTQ+ people "the way we used to take care of things in the 1950s and 60s" (era of criminalization and forced institutionalization)\^10

Extreme Anti-Black and Antisemitic Rhetoric:

* Called George Floyd a "scumbag"\^11
* Said Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a "huge mistake"\^12
* "If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified'"\^13
* Called Martin Luther King Jr. "awful" and "not a good person"\^14
* Claimed Jewish people control "not just the colleges; it's the nonprofits, it's the movies, it's Hollywood, it's all of it"\^15
* "The philosophical foundation of anti-whiteness has been largely financed by Jewish donors in the country"\^16

Great Replacement Theory and White Supremacist Messaging:

* Promoted "Great Replacement" theory: "not a theory, it's a reality" - Democrats seek to "diminish and decrease white demographics in America"\^17
* SPLC documents Kirk warning that "native born Americans are being replaced by foreigners" and promising Trump will "liberate" the country from "the enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes"\^18

Celebrating and Normalizing Violence:

* Said gun deaths are "worth it" to preserve Second Amendment rights\^19
* Promoted Christian nationalist "Seven Mountain Mandate" ideology calling for theocratic takeover through "spiritual warfare"\^20

Targeting and Harassment Campaigns:

* Created "Professor Watchlists" that resulted in death threats, rape threats, and antisemitic harassment\^21
* Arizona State University President documented that Kirk's watchlist generated "antisemitic, anti-LGBTQ+ and misogynistic attacks on ASU faculty"\^22
* One professor resigned after "nearly a year of harassment by right-wing, white supremacist media outlets"\^23
* Maintained "School Board Watchlists" targeting local education officials\^24

January 6 Capitol Attack Organization:

* Organized "80+ buses full of patriots to D.C. to fight for this president"\^25
* Admitted receiving "500 emails a minute calling for a civil war" before January 6\^26
* Pleaded the Fifth over 70 times when questioned by House January 6 Committee\^27

Civil Rights Organizations' Classification as Extremist:

* Southern Poverty Law Center added Turning Point USA to official "Hate Map" as "antigovernment extremist group" (2024)\^28
* Anti-Defamation League documents Kirk's systematic antisemitic rhetoric\^29
* Academic research from Cambridge Core and Brookings Institution documents Kirk's rhetoric following established patterns of stochastic terrorism\^30

Documented Legal Consequences and Criminal Investigations:

* Federal Election Commission fined Kirk's organization $18,000 for campaign finance violations\^31
* Multiple universities paid settlements totaling tens of thousands of dollars after Kirk's "Professor Watchlist" resulted in documented death threats\^32
* Criminal charges filed in multiple states against TPUSA personnel for violent confrontations, including felony assault charges in Arizona\^33
* Yolo County District Attorney investigating coordinated attacks at UC Davis that could result in felony charges carrying up to three years in prison\^34

International Recognition as Extremist:

* Socialist Worker UK described his content as a "cesspit of far right lies, vile racism, transphobia"\^35
* CBC Canada documented his "combative style" as making him a "potent political force" in promoting extremist ideologies\^36
* Al Jazeera noted Kirk's "provocative style" as deliberately inflammatory political messaging\^37

General Violence Normalization:

* Regularly promoted false claims about 2020 election integrity leading to January 6\^38
* Systematic rhetoric describing Democratic governance as illegitimate\^39
* Network Contagion Research Institute documents Kirk's systematic provision of mainstream legitimacy to white nationalist figures\^40

Sources:

\^1 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...son-andor-given-death-penalty-crimes-against)

\^2 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...kirk-death-penalty-public-executions-1873073)

\^3 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...e-trial-every-gender-affirming-clinic-doctor)

\^4 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)

\^5 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)

\^6 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^7 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^8 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)

\^9 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)

\^10 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)

\^11 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)

\^12 [https://www.breezyscroll.com/world/...rld/the-us/charlie-kirk-controversial-takes/)

\^13 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)

\^14 [https://populartimelines.com/timeli...timeline/Charlie-Kirk/controversies-scandals)

\^15 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^16 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^17 [https://www.politifact.com/factchec...mented-immigrants-are-not-proof-of-a-scheme/)

\^18 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^19 [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/c...om/fact-check/charlie-kirk-gun-deaths-quote/)

\^20 [https://politicalresearch.org/strat...sa-increasingly-leaning-right-wing-christian)

\^21 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)

\^22 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^23 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)

\^24 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)

\^25 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-insurrection-buses-washington-tweet-1560727)

\^26 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)

\^27 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-fifth-asked-his-age-jan-6-committee-1768952)

\^28 [https://www.washingtontimes.com/new...lc-laughingstock-listing-turning-point-hate/)

\^29 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^30 [https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...-on-twitter/8BCBD1F909A861589D93F7124AFE1A7E)

\^31 [https://www.citizensforethics.org/n...point-action-fined-following-crew-complaint/)

\^32 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^33 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^34 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^35 [https://socialistworker.co.uk/comme...charlie-kkkirks-chickens-come-home-to-roost/)

\^36 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl.../world/charlie-kirk-death-reaction-1.7630652)

\^37 [https://time.com/7316280/charlie-ki...316280/charlie-kirk-dead-political-violence/)

\^38 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)

\^39 [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/...ul-rhetoric-connects-to-real-world-violence/)

\^40 [https://libcom.org/article/network-...ate-fight-political-infection-left-and-right)

Dangerously close to giving my second ever 'like' to this post but that would be too woke

 

[Earlyriser]

We don't.

Just the usual shit stirring MAGA cunts making up false allegations the shooter a black transgender Antifa ex Navy Seal who inscribed the communist manifesto onto each bullet found...

As has Farage joined in blaming the left. Distracts form how his partner paid for the house in Clacton

 

[tweety]

What are fragile young minds? Starmer's quite happy for 16 year olds to have the vote.
I've seen a couple of Kirk's YouTube videos over recent years, if that's the sort of stuff you like then watch it, if you don't, look for something else.

 

[Grassland Blue]

I don't know what you're aiming to say here. He's recorded at attacking his own sister, so his family that have been asking for him to get help for his severe schizophrenia means they're "covering for his cuntishness"?

I respect genuine dialogue, but your insistence that he needs jailing instead of the help he should have been getting is veering into divisive terrority, when this unfortunate tragedy could and should have been avoided by the Gov funding the needs for these individuals.

I wonder what it will take for you to understand that funding the police and expanding more prisons over tackling the homelessness crisis and offering mental health treatment does not make the US a safer place.

If people feel comfortable and secure in life, they are very unlikely to cause bother, I believe.

 

[flook]

I don't think he has ever said deaths are a good thing.

I just don't think expressing any opinion should endanger his or anybody's life. We need some boundaries somewhere. We can't justify death just because someone occasionally said something stupid or irresponsible. We all did. If a woman walks home at night in a miniskirt through a dark alley, it's putting her at risk, but it doesn't mean it's her fault if she gets raped. We can't allow victim blaming.

People will believe what they want to believe. That's okay. Some believe City are scum, some believe United are Scum, some believe Liverpool are scum, and some believe we are all scum. I naively believed that this will be some common ground like let's all condemn violence and say this is a despicable crime. For me, murder is always wrong. We shouldn't be debating whether it's justified. For me, that's horrible.

No one is saying his murder was justified, rather people are using his "controversial" views to explain or rationalise why it happened. There's a massive difference between the two

 

[flook]

All I have seen is out of context so called quotes, mainly confirmation bias, or cognitive dissonance responses, yet to see any of the so called evil things he has said. Stupid things or inappropriate? Sure. Some post lies that he wishes death to gays (has many gays friends), or supports death (he said that according to him guns save more lives than not). The whole discussion is pointless. Are we really attempting to normalise murder? It is no wonder so few posters choose to engage in the politics subforum.

There were somewhere in the region of 45000 deaths in america last year attributed to shootings. There were children killed in a school on the same day as Kirk was shot. How pray tell does this correlate with "guns save more lives than not"?

 

[BobKowalski]

As ever with the internet it giveth with one hand and takes with the other as clips of Charlie Kirk’s worst moments gain increasing traction, and I can’t help wondering whenever he said something especially offensive and stood there grinning, did it ever occur to him that he would be the victim of the polarisation he helped feed?

The answer is probably no. He was likely aware there was a degree of threat, but never really felt it emotionally hence he had his wife and kids with him. Was it all a big joke, a grift? A couple of people have said that the extreme racism and anti-gay messaging become more pronounced as others began to outflank him and he went where his audience was going rather than leading them there. Otherwise though, he did believe in the core of his message.

Yet that core message is split on gender lines. There was a Gen Z poll where they ranked twenty things most important to them. Men, the two top spots were marriage and family. For women they were the bottom two spots. Younger men and younger women want diametrically different things from life and Kirk did attract those men who wanted the ‘traditions’ back. A dutiful wife, kids and no backchat. Trouble is, women on the whole aren’t interested.

It was kind of weird watching Kirk doing his thing while knowing it was going to end in his violent and very public death in the reddest of red States. And at the end of the day for what? Money, fame I guess, but also dead at 31 with a legacy of hate speech for a lot of people to remember him by.

There is a degree of ‘immortality’ in this legacy I suppose, but death is one hell of a price to pay for it.

 

[MarcIsTired1986]

What?? You’re not fucking seriously saying that?

Why would I have heard about it?

I don't follow anything to do with US Politics - and until recently only started paying some interest in UK Politics.

It's a Political Event that happened in America.

I don't know how much clearer I can be - I. DON'T. HAVE. ANY. INTEREST. IN. US. POLITICS.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

When I said “professional marksman” I simply meant someone that was at sometime trained to, and paid to, shoot at things. I’ve also read wind gusts of 15mph there that day as well. If so, it makes the shot even more skilled.

At 140 yards, there is no need to aim off.

They would have had some training and I think the escape gives a better understanding of the individual.

 

[hihosilva]

I will respectfully disagree that “this is the problem with…free speech.”

There is no problem with free speech other than the critical thought needed to listen and synthesize the information, and often throwing the “Bullshit Flag.”

As you’re seeing elsewhere, and as some would like to institute in the U.S., curtailment of free speech is rarely done for positive reasons, and it codifies against the ability to speak truth to power…and that power then gets to determine who can say what.

This is the problem. Many people can't hold back their emotions when abusive & racist views are directed at them & some going to the extreme by retaliating with violence

I take it from your user name that you are either an American citizen or have lived there. Do you think people with racist views should be able to spread them through free speech?