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- 29 Jun 2009
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- 90,650
The perfect Horst Wessel, get an irritant out of the way, stoke up tensions, change the subject.Interesting he was currently pushing for the Epstein files to be published.
The perfect Horst Wessel, get an irritant out of the way, stoke up tensions, change the subject.Interesting he was currently pushing for the Epstein files to be published.
Yeah, that was an impressive jump, my knees would have blown out! The footage of him limping is before the shooting; the theory is that the gun was down his trouser leg. Weird but plausible as he keeps his right leg completely straight.
We don't.do we know this shooter was far left ?
I’m gonna need more sources.Washington Post has 140 here.
Al Jazeera
![]()
When and where Charlie Kirk was shot: A visual timeline
Charlie Kirk, 31, a well-known Trump ally and conservative activist in the US, has been shot dead in Utah.www.aljazeera.com
Fox
Charlie Kirk shooting: Person of interest photos released by FBI | LiveNOW from FOX
The FBI has released photos of a person of interest in the shooting death of Charlie Kirk.www.livenowfox.com
The Hill
![]()
Charlie Kirk assassin believed to have fired from roof; video shows person running
The at-large assassin who shot and killed conservative activist Charlie Kirk Wednesday likely fired from a nearby rooftop during an event at Utah Valley University (UVU), according to local officia…thehill.com
Telegraph
![]()
Charlie Kirk suspect jumps from rooftop and flees scene in new video
Officials in Utah vow to pursue death penalty for gunman as they plead for public to help with manhuntwww.telegraph.co.uk
AP
![]()
Charlie Kirk assassinated at university event in Utah
Authorities say conservative activist Charlie Kirk was killed by a single shot in a targeted attack during an outdoor event Wednesday at Utah Valley University.apnews.com
The usual suspects insulting our fascist's to frame it as the white MLK has been murdered.I've never heard of this guy and I suspect that's the case for 90% of the UK. I'm surprised the story is rumbling along as front page news over here.
Not my own, but the copy and pasting was a struggle.Great work.
I admitted to not even knowing who he was until he died. So I tried to take a balanced view and be tolerant by forming an opinion from what information I was being served.
And based on the evidence in this thread he said a lot of stuff that I disagree with and have no time for. Equally, I've seen clips of debates where he makes sense. Someone else said it better than me regarding humans and being multi-dimensionsal. He would come across as a loving, family man, then say something which is extreme (to most people) regarding guns.
Still, him dying (and the way he died) is certainly not something to celebrate, or fitting, because he debated extremely sensitive topics and shared his own opinion. This is where I'll withdraw from this thread as you either have to be far left or far right and there's no room for reasoned debate without being pigeon holed and labelled.
you only read what you want to read don't you.Again, his wife seemed to be haply with him, so what he said must not have been bad in practice, no matter how he worded it (badly).
I am sure some Muslims have bad intentions, just like some Christians, or anyone.
I don't care what he claims about stealing spots. That's his imperative. I don't have to agree with it, sounds quite ridiculous.
Finally, Floyd was a scumbag by any definition, was also on fentanyl when he died, and the rest is him speculating, even if he is wrong.
I don't get what is this supposed to show? Chat GPT is quite accurate, yes, looks quite accurate to me.
None of this changes my position on Charlie Kirk, which is that despite having some bad takes(the biblical one about gays is quite awful, but then he had numerous gay friends), he didn't deserve to die, and anyone wishing him (or any political commentar) death is a bad person themselves.
SERE.Agreed, and it’s not just the natural reluctance to kill a person, but the ability to calm yourself in what is a high pressure situation. The heart will be going, sweating, shaking etc., and even more so if you fully intend to escape without being caught or killed. Will my escape route be viable in the aftermath, what if I encounter security unexpectedly and so on? All this and more will be running through his head.
The shooter was not just skilled, but must have some training to counter his natural reactions in the moment and leading up to the moment.
To any others saying “he never advocated for violence” or that all he did was “calmly debate”, some light reading from our friends at Reddit, including sources.
Charlie Kirk's Documented Calls for Political Violence (2012-2024)
Direct Calls for Death and Public Executions:
* Called for President Biden to receive "the death penalty for his crimes against America" (July 2023)\^1
* "Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised. I think at a certain age, its an initiation...What age should you start to see public executions?" - suggested children should watch (2024)\^2
* Called for "Nuremberg-style trials for every gender-affirming clinic doctor" invoking Nazi war crimes imagery (April 2024)\^3
Calling for Lethal Force Against Migrants and Minorities:
* Advocated lethal force against migrants: "If you enter, we have lethal force, and we're willing to use it" and "You can start with firing next to them" (March 2024)\^4
* Advocated using whips against migrants, asking "Why is that controversial?"\^5
* Warned of "enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes" requiring armed response\^6
* Directed supporters: "Buy weapons. Buy ammo. If you go into a public place, bring a gun with you"\^7
Violent Anti-LGBTQ+ Statements:
* Said he "would've loved" if fathers "formed a line" to physically confront transgender athletes: "you're going to have to come through us"\^8
* Called transgender people "an abomination" and "a throbbing middle finger to God"\^9
* Advocated handling LGBTQ+ people "the way we used to take care of things in the 1950s and 60s" (era of criminalization and forced institutionalization)\^10
Extreme Anti-Black and Antisemitic Rhetoric:
* Called George Floyd a "scumbag"\^11
* Said Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a "huge mistake"\^12
* "If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified'"\^13
* Called Martin Luther King Jr. "awful" and "not a good person"\^14
* Claimed Jewish people control "not just the colleges; it's the nonprofits, it's the movies, it's Hollywood, it's all of it"\^15
* "The philosophical foundation of anti-whiteness has been largely financed by Jewish donors in the country"\^16
Great Replacement Theory and White Supremacist Messaging:
* Promoted "Great Replacement" theory: "not a theory, it's a reality" - Democrats seek to "diminish and decrease white demographics in America"\^17
* SPLC documents Kirk warning that "native born Americans are being replaced by foreigners" and promising Trump will "liberate" the country from "the enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes"\^18
Celebrating and Normalizing Violence:
* Said gun deaths are "worth it" to preserve Second Amendment rights\^19
* Promoted Christian nationalist "Seven Mountain Mandate" ideology calling for theocratic takeover through "spiritual warfare"\^20
Targeting and Harassment Campaigns:
* Created "Professor Watchlists" that resulted in death threats, rape threats, and antisemitic harassment\^21
* Arizona State University President documented that Kirk's watchlist generated "antisemitic, anti-LGBTQ+ and misogynistic attacks on ASU faculty"\^22
* One professor resigned after "nearly a year of harassment by right-wing, white supremacist media outlets"\^23
* Maintained "School Board Watchlists" targeting local education officials\^24
January 6 Capitol Attack Organization:
* Organized "80+ buses full of patriots to D.C. to fight for this president"\^25
* Admitted receiving "500 emails a minute calling for a civil war" before January 6\^26
* Pleaded the Fifth over 70 times when questioned by House January 6 Committee\^27
Civil Rights Organizations' Classification as Extremist:
* Southern Poverty Law Center added Turning Point USA to official "Hate Map" as "antigovernment extremist group" (2024)\^28
* Anti-Defamation League documents Kirk's systematic antisemitic rhetoric\^29
* Academic research from Cambridge Core and Brookings Institution documents Kirk's rhetoric following established patterns of stochastic terrorism\^30
Documented Legal Consequences and Criminal Investigations:
* Federal Election Commission fined Kirk's organization $18,000 for campaign finance violations\^31
* Multiple universities paid settlements totaling tens of thousands of dollars after Kirk's "Professor Watchlist" resulted in documented death threats\^32
* Criminal charges filed in multiple states against TPUSA personnel for violent confrontations, including felony assault charges in Arizona\^33
* Yolo County District Attorney investigating coordinated attacks at UC Davis that could result in felony charges carrying up to three years in prison\^34
International Recognition as Extremist:
* Socialist Worker UK described his content as a "cesspit of far right lies, vile racism, transphobia"\^35
* CBC Canada documented his "combative style" as making him a "potent political force" in promoting extremist ideologies\^36
* Al Jazeera noted Kirk's "provocative style" as deliberately inflammatory political messaging\^37
General Violence Normalization:
* Regularly promoted false claims about 2020 election integrity leading to January 6\^38
* Systematic rhetoric describing Democratic governance as illegitimate\^39
* Network Contagion Research Institute documents Kirk's systematic provision of mainstream legitimacy to white nationalist figures\^40
Sources:
\^1 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...son-andor-given-death-penalty-crimes-against)
\^2 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...kirk-death-penalty-public-executions-1873073)
\^3 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...e-trial-every-gender-affirming-clinic-doctor)
\^4 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)
\^5 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)
\^6 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)
\^7 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)
\^8 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)
\^9 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)
\^10 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)
\^11 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)
\^12 [https://www.breezyscroll.com/world/...rld/the-us/charlie-kirk-controversial-takes/)
\^13 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)
\^14 [https://populartimelines.com/timeli...timeline/Charlie-Kirk/controversies-scandals)
\^15 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)
\^16 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)
\^17 [https://www.politifact.com/factchec...mented-immigrants-are-not-proof-of-a-scheme/)
\^18 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)
\^19 [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/c...om/fact-check/charlie-kirk-gun-deaths-quote/)
\^20 [https://politicalresearch.org/strat...sa-increasingly-leaning-right-wing-christian)
\^21 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)
\^22 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)
\^23 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)
\^24 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)
\^25 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-insurrection-buses-washington-tweet-1560727)
\^26 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)
\^27 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-fifth-asked-his-age-jan-6-committee-1768952)
\^28 [https://www.washingtontimes.com/new...lc-laughingstock-listing-turning-point-hate/)
\^29 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)
\^30 [https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...-on-twitter/8BCBD1F909A861589D93F7124AFE1A7E)
\^31 [https://www.citizensforethics.org/n...point-action-fined-following-crew-complaint/)
\^32 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)
\^33 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)
\^34 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)
\^35 [https://socialistworker.co.uk/comme...charlie-kkkirks-chickens-come-home-to-roost/)
\^36 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl.../world/charlie-kirk-death-reaction-1.7630652)
\^37 [https://time.com/7316280/charlie-ki...316280/charlie-kirk-dead-political-violence/)
\^38 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)
\^39 [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/...ul-rhetoric-connects-to-real-world-violence/)
\^40 [https://libcom.org/article/network-...ate-fight-political-infection-left-and-right)
As has Farage joined in blaming the left. Distracts form how his partner paid for the house in ClactonWe don't.
Just the usual shit stirring MAGA cunts making up false allegations the shooter a black transgender Antifa ex Navy Seal who inscribed the communist manifesto onto each bullet found...
If people feel comfortable and secure in life, they are very unlikely to cause bother, I believe.I don't know what you're aiming to say here. He's recorded at attacking his own sister, so his family that have been asking for him to get help for his severe schizophrenia means they're "covering for his cuntishness"?
I respect genuine dialogue, but your insistence that he needs jailing instead of the help he should have been getting is veering into divisive terrority, when this unfortunate tragedy could and should have been avoided by the Gov funding the needs for these individuals.
I wonder what it will take for you to understand that funding the police and expanding more prisons over tackling the homelessness crisis and offering mental health treatment does not make the US a safer place.
No one is saying his murder was justified, rather people are using his "controversial" views to explain or rationalise why it happened. There's a massive difference between the twoI don't think he has ever said deaths are a good thing.
I just don't think expressing any opinion should endanger his or anybody's life. We need some boundaries somewhere. We can't justify death just because someone occasionally said something stupid or irresponsible. We all did. If a woman walks home at night in a miniskirt through a dark alley, it's putting her at risk, but it doesn't mean it's her fault if she gets raped. We can't allow victim blaming.
People will believe what they want to believe. That's okay. Some believe City are scum, some believe United are Scum, some believe Liverpool are scum, and some believe we are all scum. I naively believed that this will be some common ground like let's all condemn violence and say this is a despicable crime. For me, murder is always wrong. We shouldn't be debating whether it's justified. For me, that's horrible.
There were somewhere in the region of 45000 deaths in america last year attributed to shootings. There were children killed in a school on the same day as Kirk was shot. How pray tell does this correlate with "guns save more lives than not"?All I have seen is out of context so called quotes, mainly confirmation bias, or cognitive dissonance responses, yet to see any of the so called evil things he has said. Stupid things or inappropriate? Sure. Some post lies that he wishes death to gays (has many gays friends), or supports death (he said that according to him guns save more lives than not). The whole discussion is pointless. Are we really attempting to normalise murder? It is no wonder so few posters choose to engage in the politics subforum.
What?? You’re not fucking seriously saying that?
At 140 yards, there is no need to aim off.When I said “professional marksman” I simply meant someone that was at sometime trained to, and paid to, shoot at things. I’ve also read wind gusts of 15mph there that day as well. If so, it makes the shot even more skilled.
This is the problem. Many people can't hold back their emotions when abusive & racist views are directed at them & some going to the extreme by retaliating with violenceI will respectfully disagree that “this is the problem with…free speech.”
There is no problem with free speech other than the critical thought needed to listen and synthesize the information, and often throwing the “Bullshit Flag.”
As you’re seeing elsewhere, and as some would like to institute in the U.S., curtailment of free speech is rarely done for positive reasons, and it codifies against the ability to speak truth to power…and that power then gets to determine who can say what.
Yeah, but Hillary’s emails . . . .To any others saying “he never advocated for violence” or that all he did was “calmly debate”, some light reading from our friends at Reddit, including sources.
Charlie Kirk's Documented Calls for Political Violence (2012-2024)
Direct Calls for Death and Public Executions:
* Called for President Biden to receive "the death penalty for his crimes against America" (July 2023)\^1
* "Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised. I think at a certain age, its an initiation...What age should you start to see public executions?" - suggested children should watch (2024)\^2
* Called for "Nuremberg-style trials for every gender-affirming clinic doctor" invoking Nazi war crimes imagery (April 2024)\^3
Calling for Lethal Force Against Migrants and Minorities:
* Advocated lethal force against migrants: "If you enter, we have lethal force, and we're willing to use it" and "You can start with firing next to them" (March 2024)\^4
* Advocated using whips against migrants, asking "Why is that controversial?"\^5
* Warned of "enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes" requiring armed response\^6
* Directed supporters: "Buy weapons. Buy ammo. If you go into a public place, bring a gun with you"\^7
Violent Anti-LGBTQ+ Statements:
* Said he "would've loved" if fathers "formed a line" to physically confront transgender athletes: "you're going to have to come through us"\^8
* Called transgender people "an abomination" and "a throbbing middle finger to God"\^9
* Advocated handling LGBTQ+ people "the way we used to take care of things in the 1950s and 60s" (era of criminalization and forced institutionalization)\^10
Extreme Anti-Black and Antisemitic Rhetoric:
* Called George Floyd a "scumbag"\^11
* Said Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a "huge mistake"\^12
* "If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified'"\^13
* Called Martin Luther King Jr. "awful" and "not a good person"\^14
* Claimed Jewish people control "not just the colleges; it's the nonprofits, it's the movies, it's Hollywood, it's all of it"\^15
* "The philosophical foundation of anti-whiteness has been largely financed by Jewish donors in the country"\^16
Great Replacement Theory and White Supremacist Messaging:
* Promoted "Great Replacement" theory: "not a theory, it's a reality" - Democrats seek to "diminish and decrease white demographics in America"\^17
* SPLC documents Kirk warning that "native born Americans are being replaced by foreigners" and promising Trump will "liberate" the country from "the enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes"\^18
Celebrating and Normalizing Violence:
* Said gun deaths are "worth it" to preserve Second Amendment rights\^19
* Promoted Christian nationalist "Seven Mountain Mandate" ideology calling for theocratic takeover through "spiritual warfare"\^20
Targeting and Harassment Campaigns:
* Created "Professor Watchlists" that resulted in death threats, rape threats, and antisemitic harassment\^21
* Arizona State University President documented that Kirk's watchlist generated "antisemitic, anti-LGBTQ+ and misogynistic attacks on ASU faculty"\^22
* One professor resigned after "nearly a year of harassment by right-wing, white supremacist media outlets"\^23
* Maintained "School Board Watchlists" targeting local education officials\^24
January 6 Capitol Attack Organization:
* Organized "80+ buses full of patriots to D.C. to fight for this president"\^25
* Admitted receiving "500 emails a minute calling for a civil war" before January 6\^26
* Pleaded the Fifth over 70 times when questioned by House January 6 Committee\^27
Civil Rights Organizations' Classification as Extremist:
* Southern Poverty Law Center added Turning Point USA to official "Hate Map" as "antigovernment extremist group" (2024)\^28
* Anti-Defamation League documents Kirk's systematic antisemitic rhetoric\^29
* Academic research from Cambridge Core and Brookings Institution documents Kirk's rhetoric following established patterns of stochastic terrorism\^30
Documented Legal Consequences and Criminal Investigations:
* Federal Election Commission fined Kirk's organization $18,000 for campaign finance violations\^31
* Multiple universities paid settlements totaling tens of thousands of dollars after Kirk's "Professor Watchlist" resulted in documented death threats\^32
* Criminal charges filed in multiple states against TPUSA personnel for violent confrontations, including felony assault charges in Arizona\^33
* Yolo County District Attorney investigating coordinated attacks at UC Davis that could result in felony charges carrying up to three years in prison\^34
International Recognition as Extremist:
* Socialist Worker UK described his content as a "cesspit of far right lies, vile racism, transphobia"\^35
* CBC Canada documented his "combative style" as making him a "potent political force" in promoting extremist ideologies\^36
* Al Jazeera noted Kirk's "provocative style" as deliberately inflammatory political messaging\^37
General Violence Normalization:
* Regularly promoted false claims about 2020 election integrity leading to January 6\^38
* Systematic rhetoric describing Democratic governance as illegitimate\^39
* Network Contagion Research Institute documents Kirk's systematic provision of mainstream legitimacy to white nationalist figures\^40
Sources:
\^1 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...son-andor-given-death-penalty-crimes-against)
\^2 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...kirk-death-penalty-public-executions-1873073)
\^3 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...e-trial-every-gender-affirming-clinic-doctor)
\^4 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)
\^5 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)
\^6 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)
\^7 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)
\^8 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)
\^9 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)
\^10 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)
\^11 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)
\^12 [https://www.breezyscroll.com/world/...rld/the-us/charlie-kirk-controversial-takes/)
\^13 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)
\^14 [https://populartimelines.com/timeli...timeline/Charlie-Kirk/controversies-scandals)
\^15 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)
\^16 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)
\^17 [https://www.politifact.com/factchec...mented-immigrants-are-not-proof-of-a-scheme/)
\^18 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)
\^19 [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/c...om/fact-check/charlie-kirk-gun-deaths-quote/)
\^20 [https://politicalresearch.org/strat...sa-increasingly-leaning-right-wing-christian)
\^21 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)
\^22 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)
\^23 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)
\^24 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)
\^25 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-insurrection-buses-washington-tweet-1560727)
\^26 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)
\^27 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-fifth-asked-his-age-jan-6-committee-1768952)
\^28 [https://www.washingtontimes.com/new...lc-laughingstock-listing-turning-point-hate/)
\^29 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)
\^30 [https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...-on-twitter/8BCBD1F909A861589D93F7124AFE1A7E)
\^31 [https://www.citizensforethics.org/n...point-action-fined-following-crew-complaint/)
\^32 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)
\^33 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)
\^34 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)
\^35 [https://socialistworker.co.uk/comme...charlie-kkkirks-chickens-come-home-to-roost/)
\^36 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl.../world/charlie-kirk-death-reaction-1.7630652)
\^37 [https://time.com/7316280/charlie-ki...316280/charlie-kirk-dead-political-violence/)
\^38 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)
\^39 [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/...ul-rhetoric-connects-to-real-world-violence/)
\^40 [https://libcom.org/article/network-...ate-fight-political-infection-left-and-right)