The Rise of the Far Right

[SWP's back]

Surely with the left being the violent ones when it goes ‘pop’ as I’m sure it does regularly in your fantasies it would be very dangerous to be on the right?

Who would protect you from the sandal wearing yoghurt knitters?

Them grannies with the Palestine Action placards are going to be flinging then at you with such force it might as well be a guillotine

Run for the hills before it’s to late

I’ll personally line the RWNJ’s against the wall and make the cunts eat avocado toast and matcha.

 

[hampshireblue]

That's on you then.

I've seen molotov cocktails thrown, fireworks, bricks and police horses attacked and so have you if only on your TV, there's nothing virtuous about lying in a good cause.

Ah ok, not quite serious enough then?

 

[hilts]

How far left or right from centre do you have to be to be considered far left or far right
Because I haven’t got a clue

You would need a definition of centre which isn't possible, most people confuse "the centre' as being reasonable with no extreme views. As the vast majority believe themselves to be reasonable then they claim themselves as centrist.

Its a trait in here for people to put themselves in a box and spend their time arguing with people in other boxes. The subject is irrelevant.

People generally are more complicated than this.

Obviously some have no idea why they believe something, they just do and will search everywhere to find acceptance in their view. Take this thread that quickly turned into how many fans were at a parade farce.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

The BBC’s main article this morning shows the far right clashing with the police and then for a bit of balance a video clearly taken further away from the main March showing the left wing smiling and happy with one particular kaleidoscope woman in a wheelchair grinning at the camera.

It’s absolutely disgusting how biased the reporting is, the left have been allowed to get away with presenting themselves as non-violent for far too long when actually they are probably worse. Looking at the percentages of people who turned out on both sides I really hope that’s illustrative of the feeling in the country because when this goes pop, I’d hate to be on the left.

Far more all political violence is right wing than left.

See eg

https://www.start.umd.edu/publication/comparison-political-violence-left-wing-right-wing-and-islamist-extremists-united

 

[The perfect fumble]

What we saw yesterday was a march organised by a well known violent racist, addressed by a foreign oligarch calling for the violent overthrow of our democratically elected government.

That's what it is.

Support for violent racism.

Make all the excuses you like, but I don't see why the truth should be hidden.

Excuses?

You don't get those numbers, or the flags I see outside the window in my little corner of Halifax, something has happened and if we want to combat it we need to know what it is for what it is, that way we can get that crowd to fade away and Robinson can go back to fucking around with his racist minority sport.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Ah ok, not quite serious enough then?

Objectively it was nowt given the numbers, even the Guardian and the BBC have given up flogging it as the defining story of the march.

See things for what they are, not what you want to see.

 

[WestGorton]

Youre part of the problem.
Referring to people in london today as nazi’s is moronic.

Some of them are. Not all.

 

[The perfect fumble]

No shit. They’ve turned up to a rally headed by Robinson or Hopkins to protest immigration and immigrants and with Musk calling for the violent overthrow of a democratically elected Govt as an encore. Not a place to be selling ‘hug a refugee’ t-shirts.

Essentially, this is about race. You can dress it up as ‘culture’ or pride in our nation - well, the nation of the past, not the present - or whatever, but on the ugly surface it’s about race and underneath that a nebulous concern at how fast things have changed, are changing and will continue to change. But even more than that, it’s the loss of control.

It harks back to Brexit which was about control and taking back control. Giving control back to the people. Except we lost control. We have less control, because we absented ourselves from the place and institutions that decided the world we live in. So what’s next? Control our immediate environment and expel/exclude that which is foreign? There are ‘too many of us’ which means we need fewer of ‘them’ and that leads you to the stage of getting rid of ‘them’.

Except, we need more people, not fewer, so the reality of spending billions to deport 600k predominantly UK citizens…well for what exactly? To ‘protect ‘mainstream British culture’? Or our idea of what it is? And is it not different things for different people or something that means different things to different people and, even though I took the piss (couldn’t resist temptation - its a British thing), it is kind of ‘you know it when you see it’. So, it’s an idea, a concept, not a ‘thing’.

Talking of culture, ours is not one of overt nationalism and this idea we must ‘fly the flag’ and march for the UK is an alien one and makes most of us uncomfortable hence the derision for ‘flag shaggers’. All that unseemly flag waving we can leave to sporting events, the Proms and Jubilee’s. Outside of that and it’s just galloping insecurity. We’re British goddamit, not American.

We will probably flirt with a far right Govt of some description at some point and either regret the reality of masked police and troops on the streets and all the usual trappings of far right authoritarian Govt including economic incompetence or we adopt the Italian model of electing a fascist Govt and everything carries on as before with nothing changing because reality is a bitch.

Enough of me meandering on.

I'm off to the match so I'll reply a bit later. I suspect you and I want the same outcome, It's how to get there where we disagree.

 

[Bluesince1979]

Some of them are. Not all.

Right. A wide reaching assumption

This is the trouble of extremes. Anyone far left thinks anyone to the right is a nazi and vise versa right wingers think anyone left is a commie

Silly

 

[WestGorton]

Right. A wide reaching assumption

This is the trouble of extremes. Anyone far left thinks anyone to the right is a nazi and vise versa right wingers think anyone left is a commie

Silly

I'm not far left. Don't assume that also

 

[BrianW]

If your culture is so weak that it can't stand the influence of a tiny minority of immigrants, then it's a pathetic culture to start with.

Look at the Jews. Brutally persecuted for the better part of 1000 years. Is their culture destroyed? Is it fuck, as any trip down Bury New Road on a Saturday morning will demonstrate.

Look at the Irish and Welsh. Dominated (to put it mildly) by the English - and in the case of the Irish, the Scots - for centuries. Is their culture destroyed? Is it fuck.

Most of the folk on that march couldn't even spell 'culture' without checking a dictionary. The idea that they fear the loss of the heritage of Chaucer, Shakespeare and Dickens is a joke. The idea that they are Christians is an even bigger joke. In fact, it's next door to blasphemy.

The truth is, this country is going through (relatively) difficult times. No party can sort it out quickly, but everyone is impatient. The mega-rich are well aware of this, and are worried in case the people start questioning whether having individuals with untold billions in the bank is necessarily a Good Thing. So they create a diversion. (They have ample resources to do this, including effective control of 95% of the media.) Let's find a scapegoat, lads. Someone we can blame. I know, asylum seekers will do. And if by stirring the shit we put black, brown and yellow people in danger, who gives a fuck?

And the really scary thing is the 'Marxist', 'Communist' Labour Government is appeasing these criminals, not confronting them.

As an aside, Being a Christian 101. One of the first rules is you're supposed to love your enemies. That's a tough gig. Hardly anyone achieves that. I don't. This lot certainly doesn't.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Apartheid Clyde speaking about immigration yesterday is ironic, he left South Africa to avoid mandatory military service moved to Canada then America.

 

[hampshireblue]

Objectively it was nowt given the numbers, even the Guardian and the BBC have given up flogging it as the defining story of the march.

See things for what they are, not what you want to see.

What,that there were according to some, 2 million people there?

A nice Trump phrase after his first inauguration?

 

[hampshireblue]

Britain is one of the oldest still functioning parliamentary democracies on the planet, built on strong Christian foundations.

We are the home of Magna Carta, the birthplace of the system of common law that is the real source of concepts such as individual liberty, free speech, the right to a fair trial, etc.

Our language is the most widely spoken on the planet, the language of the internet and global commerce.

We are the home of the industrial revolution, the first steam engine, leading to key advances like steam trains, steam boats and factory production.

The home of cultural giants like Shakespeare, Dickens, Tolkien, Orwell, etc. Some of the most influential figures in world literature to this day.

The home of scientists who made major contributions to the progress of humanity such as Newton, Darwin, Faraday, Turin, etc. Again, hugely influential on the global stage.

Just a tiny fraction of the legendary figures produced by this tiny island off the coast of Europe, I could go on and on but I don't have the time or energy, you could write a book about the contribution Britain has made to the progress of the human race and I'm sure many have.

Our contribution to the arts, music, the wider culture, continues to this day.

We're standing on the shoulders of giants, we have a lot to be proud of, we have a distinctive culture that produced these hugely significant ancestors, and this is worth celebrating and preserving.

Talk about fish and chips and curry is a very low grade level of analysis of what it means to be British and a little bit silly.

The liberal establishment is pushing the narrative that the expression of pride in your nation is in some way far right, but the vast majority of the country isn't buying it.

You are surely taking the piss?

You really think that lot yesterday can't decide whether to read the Magna Carta or a bit of Dickens?

Is that Alan Turing of Turin you refer to?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

I did enjoy the Musk-rat yesterday and the response to his suggestions on how to overthrow democracy. The cheers were many and, given the logically correlation between leave voters and the marchers, ironic in the extreme.
You just won the Brexit vote let's have another referendum, said the Leave voters.
Get over it losers, it's not how democracy works, said the leavers.
They then follow up with: We have just elected a government I don't like, how can we overthrow it after a year in office?

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I did enjoy the Musk-rat yesterday and the response to his suggestions on how to overthrow democracy. The cheers were many and, given the logically correlation between leave voters and the marchers, ironic in the extreme.
You just won the Brexit vote let's have another referendum, said the Leave voters.
Get over it losers, it's not how democracy works, said the leavers.
They then follow up with: We have just elected a government I don't like, how can we overthrow it after a year in office?

I think they wanted to overthrow it as soon as the results came through, as stated in their online petition to get the GE rerun because they didn’t like the outcome.

Call an Immediate General Election

 

[flook]

The BBC’s main article this morning shows the far right clashing with the police and then for a bit of balance a video clearly taken further away from the main March showing the left wing smiling and happy with one particular kaleidoscope woman in a wheelchair grinning at the camera.

It’s absolutely disgusting how biased the reporting is, the left have been allowed to get away with presenting themselves as non-violent for far too long when actually they are probably worse. Looking at the percentages of people who turned out on both sides I really hope that’s illustrative of the feeling in the country because when this goes pop, I’d hate to be on the left.

Utter utter bullshit delusion

 

[hilts]

Can anyone define what British culture is? Just so we know what we are supposed to be returning to?

There is so much about a culture that defining it isn't gonna be done in a sentence or two it encompasses things like sense of humour, fairness, fashion, sport, tv and films, socialising,architecture, music, accents and language, local and national eccentricities. The list is endless really.

If someone has spent time in say Holland and Russia and says they much prefer the Dutch people and the country that will be from the experience of each of their cultures.
People are just people and are defined generally by their surroundings. What we might think as rude or impolite could seem just normal to another culture.
If one wanders around Tokyo or Istanbul on holiday you are experiencing their culture but you would need to live somewhere for a while to grasp all of it.
The biggest destroyer of culture btw is the USA not that it's their fault a lot of the world take to it. Every country will have a defining culture but it isn't static but how quickly it changes and if its for the better is down to the individual.
No political party or football fan will agree on everything that makes up their group but they will agree loosely on most things. You don't need a definitive description.
Is one culture better than another? Does one need changing for the better? Very likely but that's a big argument.
I could ask for a definition of multiculturalsm but people will have different views, plus i believe there is a game of football on soon? :-)

 

[Bluesince1979]

I'm not far left. Don't assume that also

Fair do’s , But you get my point?

You calling people nazis is like saying colchester united fans are peados, because ‘some’ are

 

[Hgblue2]

You are surely taking the piss?

You really think that lot yesterday can't decide whether to read the Magna Carta or a bit of Dickens?

Is that Alan Turing of Turin you refer to?

Wait, you were bemoaning the fact that nobody had answered the question regarding British culture, I made a good faith attempt to do so, you totally ignore the substance and pick me up on an obvious typo? I won't bother in future.