The Rise of the Far Right

The perfect fumble said:
Please stop, just stop.

I was at Uni in Bradford from 75 to 80 when Mannigham was 25% Asian and now I live just outside, I can see Bradford from my window, Manningham is two thirds Asian now, come back in 20 years and that figure will have gone up. I used to work just outside Southall, the percentage is the same as Manningham and the same will happen and guess what Ilkley will still be 98% white, that's the issue! We're living apart.

Oh if you're going to talk about schools, how many of those kids attend a madrasa, a fair number of the Asian kids will.

That is the reality, stop your whataboutery, start from reality and work from there.
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Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with people living in an area they feel comfortable in around people in their community. I assume the live near their local mosque. I also assume White English people would not move there because of the number of muslim people there. Let people live and be happy. The vast majority of muslim pakistani people are lovely, they just get on with their lives and do what they need to do.

I'm a British Indian and proud to be one. I don't want my Indian (Hindu) identity removed from me and be called just British. I support India when they play cricket and support England as long as it's not against India.

If the so called (tommy lot) want us gone then so be it, but I guarantee the infrastructure and critical services will fall apart. I pay a hell of alot of tax in this country and if someone offers me a better option elsewhere - i'd be off.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's when racism was rife, my parents sent me to a school where there were hardly any brown people, they didn't want me to go where the rest of my indian mates went. I got loads of grief. I was foolish enough to go with it and try to be one of the english boys - guess what they said. "you're ok as you're one of us" - this also carried on during the 90's when at Uni and the crowd I hung around it. I wanted to fit in. But it was always the same. "You're ok, one of us".

I'm older now - I don't think people's racist attitudes ever changed, they just didn't express them anymore. Now Tommy, Farage et al have told them it's ok to express it. I really do feel for people now, we are living in a scary world. Abuse has started again, we got some in one of the pubs I drink in. My mates got it at City at the weekend.

Multiculturism is an acceptance of difference but being able to live and integrate. The world was doing great and now some fuckwits want to spoil it.
 
Tiattos_Waterbottle said:
Yeah, so it's fine when someone asks to explain what he's talking about and he rambles on without actually ever explaining what it is he means, upon which he insults them for not deciphering it, or just at random like he has with bluethrunthru above. But I wouldn't worry, he's got you to like his posts and others to get on your soapbox and sling shit towards the left.

'Alternative opinions' is a dog whistle for saying what you want and expecting people to tolerate it, is in fact the tolerance paradox at work again. Oldham is a town of multiculture, having lived their two years myself, only dissenting opinions were Facebook warriors and people outside the Up Stairs Inn all hours of the day.
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Bloody hell!

There's nothing random about mentioning Bluethrunthru because he does exactly what I stated he does, in fact it's all he does.

As for alternative opinions being dog whistles, oh just piss off, have the balls to call me a racist if that's what you believe.

I've explained till I'm blue in the face what I mean, if I've insulted anyone it's because they deliberately pretend not to understand, and you know they're doing it for that reason, don't you start pretending as well, when what they and you really mean is you simply disagree.

In truth I'm struggling to understand what's going on myself, I was talking with my brothers at the match on Sunday and they had a different take, and what was noticeable is that while here in Halifax there's flags everywhere, there seemed very few in Manchester from what I saw. The only thing I do know is pigeon holing people is a mugs game, it gets you absolutely nowhere. There are some out and out villains and grifters in this, and if we want to prise those crowds away from those fuckers we have to be a damn sight more nuanced than shouting racist at everyone at that march.

You might think I'm a racist, fine you can believe what you want, but nothing I've ever stated could be interpreted as racist, absolutely nothing.

What you really want is for me to be a racist coz it seems I don't agree with you, and everyone who disagrees with you it seems is a racist, and it's that attitude that has led the left to leave me, I never left them. and it hasn't led me to run off into the arms of shysters like Robinson either, I'm where I've always been, the same bloke who organised a Rock Against Racism concert in Bradford when I was Student Union President, the same bloke who had three NF thugs jump him outside Uni, the same bloke who was thrown in the back of a Black Mariah at the Anti-Nazi League march in Leicester and the same bloke who was at the march where Blair Peach died.

I'm the bloke who travelled the world the best part of twenty years, particularly Africa and the Middle East who has, if I say so myself, one on the best High Life collections, certainly of the classic 70s and 80's period. in the whole of erm?? Well West Yorkshire at least, probably.

And I lived in Nigeria for three years mostly with the Muslim Hausa in the north.

Back in the 60s Bob Dylan wrote in Ballad of a Thin Man

..."Something is happening here/ But you don't know what it is/ Do you, Mr. Jones?"

And he was talking about the counter culture that was sweeping America.

Well, I'm an inquisitive Mr Jones, I don't know what's happening, but unlike Dylan's Mr Jones I want to know, and I refuse to do a runner for the most convenient ideological bolt hole coz it makes me feel cosy and virtuous.

So, much as I hate playing up to your stereotype of insulting nice folk, can I say from the bottom of my heart fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
 
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crystal_mais said:
....Multiculturism is an acceptance of difference but being able to live and integrate. The world was doing great and now some fuckwits want to spoil it.
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The Ummah - the concept of a worldwide Muslim identity, has within it elements of exclusion that do not fit easily with our idea of multicultural society. There are also tensions between Arabic centric views and those of other groups with different national origins in this country.
 
The perfect fumble said:
The only thing I do know is pigeon holing people is a mugs game, it gets you absolutely nowhere. There are some out and out villains and grifters in this, and if we want to prise those crowds away from those fuckers we have to be a damn sight more nuanced than shouting racist at everyone at that march.
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This would be helpful.
 
johnny crossan said:
The Ummah - the concept of a worldwide Muslim identity, has within it elements of exclusion that do not fit easily with our idea of multicultural society. There are also tensions between Arabic centric views and those of other groups with different national origins in this country.
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I've not come across any muslim who has tried to tell me I need to be a muslim or I do not fit into their style of life or don't belong here. I've got muslim friends who come to the pub with me, they won't drink alcohol themselves but will happily get a round of drinks in for us.

There is too much shit spouted to scare people. I've spent time in India where Hindus and Muslims seem to live fine without much tension.

As for Middle East, A friend of mine recently visited a massive Hindu temple in Abu Dhabi -
 
crystal_mais said:
Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with people living in an area they feel comfortable in around people in their community. I assume the live near their local mosque. I also assume White English people would not move there because of the number of muslim people there. Let people live and be happy. The vast majority of muslim pakistani people are lovely, they just get on with their lives and do what they need to do.

I'm a British Indian and proud to be one. I don't want my Indian (Hindu) identity removed from me and be called just British. I support India when they play cricket and support England as long as it's not against India.

If the so called (tommy lot) want us gone then so be it, but I guarantee the infrastructure and critical services will fall apart. I pay a hell of alot of tax in this country and if someone offers me a better option elsewhere - i'd be off.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's when racism was rife, my parents sent me to a school where there were hardly any brown people, they didn't want me to go where the rest of my indian mates went. I got loads of grief. I was foolish enough to go with it and try to be one of the english boys - guess what they said. "you're ok as you're one of us" - this also carried on during the 90's when at Uni and the crowd I hung around it. I wanted to fit in. But it was always the same. "You're ok, one of us".

I'm older now - I don't think people's racist attitudes ever changed, they just didn't express them anymore. Now Tommy, Farage et al have told them it's ok to express it. I really do feel for people now, we are living in a scary world. Abuse has started again, we got some in one of the pubs I drink in. My mates got it at City at the weekend.

Multiculturism is an acceptance of difference but being able to live and integrate. The world was doing great and now some fuckwits want to spoil it.
Click to expand...
I think there was more casual racism in the 70s and 80s. A lot of that has gone, but the hard core racists haven't gone away.
 
crystal_mais said:
Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with people living in an area they feel comfortable in around people in their community. I assume the live near their local mosque.
Click to expand...
There's nothing wrong, it's what all people do, they gravitate to folk like themselves, building mosques to service the community, shops and whatnot, it's the most natural thing in the world.

crystal_mais said:
I also assume White English people would not move there because of the number of muslim people there. Let people live and be happy.
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I agree, that's how it is, folk are happier around people who are like them.

crystal_mais said:
The vast majority of muslim pakistani people are lovely, they just get on with their lives and do what they need to do.
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They are, kind, family orientated folk, more likely to be a barrister than in the dock.

crystal_mais said:
If the so called (tommy lot) want us gone then so be it, but I guarantee the infrastructure and critical services will fall apart. I pay a hell of alot of tax in this country and if someone offers me a better option elsewhere - i'd be off.
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My local GP surgery is all Asian Doctors, very professional, lovely folk everyone of them.

crystal_mais said:
I'm a British Indian and proud to be one. I don't want my Indian (Hindu) identity removed from me and be called just British. I support India when they play cricket and support England as long as it's not against India.
Click to expand...

The far right use this word assimilation, a bit like the Borg, assimilation means difference disappears completely. They use that word coz they're not just racists, where they just hate Pakistanis and whatnot, they use it because they believe themselves to be racially superior.

For some of them with zero self esteem this belief is the only thing they have.

crystal_mais said:
I'm older now - I don't think people's racist attitudes ever changed, they just didn't express them anymore. Now Tommy, Farage et al have told them it's ok to express it. I really do feel for people now, we are living in a scary world. Abuse has started again, we got some in one of the pubs I drink in. My mates got it at City at the weekend.
Click to expand...

I agree, what Farage and Robinson have done is "legitimised" the public expression of racism.

crystal_mais said:
Multiculturism is an acceptance of difference
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Yes it is, it is the rejection of a predominant overarching culture...

Multiculturalism is the presence of multiple, diverse cultural or ethnic groups within a single society, where these different groups are supported and have equal rights and opportunities to maintain their unique identities. It describes a society where cultural diversity is valued, and different cultural traditions coexist, sometimes described as a "cultural mosaic" rather than a "melting pot" where cultures are fully integrated into a single, new on.

crystal_mais said:
Multiculturism is an acceptance of difference but being able to live and integrate
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Being able to live....Of course

And integrate....If you want to

What if you don't want to?

And if you choose to integrate, in the absence of an over arching culture what are you integrating with, my answer would be what you might call white English culture? Am I right with that? And in so doing are you not running the risk of alienating yourself from those that choose not to integrate?

This island of self contained mostly happy communities with duel (not necessarily competing) loyalties, not something we've seen before in this country, the rest of world looks to Britain as an example of a country that pulled it off, I'm not so sure we have if Sunday is anything to go by.

crystal_mais said:
The world was doing great and now some fuckwits want to spoil it.
Click to expand...

Well not so great for some and the fuckwits want to spoil it further in order that they can own it and exploit it for their own ends.
 
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crystal_mais said:
I've not come across any muslim who has tried to tell me I need to be a muslim or I do not fit into their style of life or don't belong here. I've got muslim friends who come to the pub with me, they won't drink alcohol themselves but will happily get a round of drinks in for us.

There is too much shit spouted to scare people. I've spent time in India where Hindus and Muslims seem to live fine without much tension.

As for Middle East, A friend of mine recently visited a massive Hindu temple in Abu Dhabi -
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I also have Muslim friends who readily acknowledge the tensions their cultural practices encounter in our secular society and particularly growing hostility towards their traditional gender values. Those pressures combined with persistent racial discrimination leave many in the immigrant communities feeling marginalised and the response is increasing self-segregation. Please don't reference the UAE as a bastion of tolerance btw, I've lived there and can assure you that (along with all the Gulf states) it is one of most rigorously stratified societies on the planet.
 
...
The perfect fumble said:
nd when integration takes place, it can sometimes look like a wholesale take over, everyone of these folk deserve to be where they are, but take a look at this list, I don't know what to make of it, or if anything should be made of it at all.

Call to the Bar – Trinity Term, 25 July 2024​

https://www.lincolnsinn.org.uk/news/call-to-the-bar-trinity-term-25-july-2024/
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What I would make of it is that you have jumped to conclusions based on a lack of context. This is typical of the information environment - it's very easy to share things that confirm preconceptions but much harder to explain the context,

For context, here's a breakdown of barrister numbers by ethnicity.

401 of 589 entering the profession (Pupils) are white.

1758030776472.png

It would be *very* interesting to hear where you picked up that link from - can you let us know?

I googled "barristers ethnic diversity UK" which led me directly here https://www.barstandardsboard.org.u...bed27a2cc60046b/Diversity-at-the-Bar-2024.pdf
 
roubaixtuesday said:
...


What I would make of it is that you have jumped to conclusions based on a lack of context. This is typical of the information environment - it's very easy to share things that confirm preconceptions but much harder to explain the context,

For context, here's a breakdown of barrister numbers by ethnicity.

401 of 589 entering the profession (Pupils) are white.

View attachment 169688

It would be *very* interesting to hear where you picked up that link from - can you let us know?

I googled "barristers ethnic diversity UK" which led me directly here https://www.barstandardsboard.org.u...bed27a2cc60046b/Diversity-at-the-Bar-2024.pdf
Click to expand...

The list you've posted does put it in context so thanks for that.

I'll scratch it from my original post.
 
The perfect fumble said:
There's nothing wrong, it's what all people do, they gravitate to folk like themselves, building mosques to service the community, shops and whatnot, it's the most natural thing in the world.


I agree, that's how it is, folk are happier around people who are like them.


They are, kind, family orientated folk, more likely to be a barrister than in the dock.


My local GP surgery is all Asian Doctors, very professional, lovely folk everyone of them.



The far right use this word assimilation, a bit like the Borg, assimilation means difference disappears completely. They use that word coz they're not just racists, where they just hate Pakistanis and whatnot, they use it because they believe themselves to be racially superior.

For some of them with zero self esteem this belief is the only thing they have.



I agree, what Farage and Robinson have done is "legitimised" the public expression of racism.



Yes it is, it is the rejection of a predominant overarching culture...

Multiculturalism is the presence of multiple, diverse cultural or ethnic groups within a single society, where these different groups are supported and have equal rights and opportunities to maintain their unique identities. It describes a society where cultural diversity is valued, and different cultural traditions coexist, sometimes described as a "cultural mosaic" rather than a "melting pot" where cultures are fully integrated into a single, new on.



Being able to live....Of course

And integrate....If you want to

What if you don't want to?

And if you choose to integrate, in the absence of an over arching culture what are you integrating with, my answer would be what you might call white English culture? Am I right with that? And in so doing are you not running the risk of alienating yourself from those that chose not to integrate?

This island of self contained mostly happy communities with duel (not necessarily competing) loyalties, not something we've seen before in this country, the rest of world looks to Britain as an example of a country that pulled it off, I'm not so sure we have if Sunday is anything to go by.

And when integration takes place, it can sometimes look like a wholesale take over, everyone of these folk deserve to be where they are, but take a look at this list, I don't know what to make of it, or if anything should be made of it at all.

Call to the Bar – Trinity Term, 25 July 2024​

https://www.lincolnsinn.org.uk/news/call-to-the-bar-trinity-term-25-july-2024/



Well not so great for some and the fuckwits want to spoil it further in order that they can own it and exploit it for their own ends.
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No idea but it looks like - they are welcoming a large group of diverse students to experience bar whatever it is.

"And if you choose to integrate, in the absence of an over arching culture what are you integrating with, my answer would be what you might call white English culture? Am I right with that? And in so doing are you not running the risk of alienating yourself from those that chose not to integrate?"

Great question - there are some of my mates (Asian) who are full on coconut (our term in jest) - would not accept they are Indian and follow nothing Indian. Shame but us 1st & 2nd Gen Indians had to do that to sometimes avoid the abuse and alienation. I always find that if an English (White) person sees you in a pub with a pint, that is a step in being accepted. Really weird comment we got in a pub a couple of weeks ago when all the flag shagging was going on - some blokes (over 50's) kept staring at us - "what are they doing in here" we heard, then another made a comment "oh they're drinking, that's fine" turned round and got on with their conversation.

Maybe Alcohol is the acceptance and integration - Who knows
 
crystal_mais said:
Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with people living in an area they feel comfortable in around people in their community. I assume the live near their local mosque. I also assume White English people would not move there because of the number of muslim people there. Let people live and be happy. The vast majority of muslim pakistani people are lovely, they just get on with their lives and do what they need to do.

I'm a British Indian and proud to be one. I don't want my Indian (Hindu) identity removed from me and be called just British. I support India when they play cricket and support England as long as it's not against India.

If the so called (tommy lot) want us gone then so be it, but I guarantee the infrastructure and critical services will fall apart. I pay a hell of alot of tax in this country and if someone offers me a better option elsewhere - i'd be off.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's when racism was rife, my parents sent me to a school where there were hardly any brown people, they didn't want me to go where the rest of my indian mates went. I got loads of grief. I was foolish enough to go with it and try to be one of the english boys - guess what they said. "you're ok as you're one of us" - this also carried on during the 90's when at Uni and the crowd I hung around it. I wanted to fit in. But it was always the same. "You're ok, one of us".

I'm older now - I don't think people's racist attitudes ever changed, they just didn't express them anymore. Now Tommy, Farage et al have told them it's ok to express it. I really do feel for people now, we are living in a scary world. Abuse has started again, we got some in one of the pubs I drink in. My mates got it at City at the weekend.

Multiculturism is an acceptance of difference but being able to live and integrate. The world was doing great and now some fuckwits want to spoil it.
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If this was in the stadium did your mates get the seat numbers of the racists having a go at them? These racist fuckers need removing from the stadium, they’re not welcome at City.
 
Big Joe Corrigan said:
If this was in the stadium did your mates get the seat numbers of the racists having a go at them? These racist fuckers need removing from the stadium, they’re not welcome at City.
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outside mate - our group in the Stadium is Indian and English. About 15 of us. We've been in our seats for over 15 years so everyone knows us around there. Some pissed up Dickheads outside. My mates just walked on. Unfortunately I had to be away this weekend so couldn't make the game.
 
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