PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

supercity88 said:
The poorly drafted initial letter from the PL bringing the charges was evidence to me that they hadn't spent a lot of time on the matter and had just hastily pulled something together. The looming announcement about an independent football regulator might have had something to do with that.

A call from Mr Levy and his pals to say "we are going to have to back this IFR if you don't take action" was probably enough to provoke it.

The only doubt I have ever had is simply down to the 2-1 vote from CAS. That shows we don't have irrefutable evidence and that UEFA did convince one judge to agree with their case, and we failed to convince them otherwise.

Will it be possible for the PL to twist that 2-1 in their favour? Probably not, but it has been the only nagging doubt I have had.

What I would say, is the fact CAS did ultimately clear us is substantial evidence at our PL hearing. Judges don't tend to undermine one another, so they would need a lot more convincing to shift positions on matters CAS were ultimately comfortable with....not sure what your thoughts are on this?
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The Uefa selected judge who ignored the fact that there was “no evidence”. A weird one to say the least. What’s different here though is that this is a deep dive into City’s accounts rather than relying on senior employees statements.
 
Nicholas van Whatsisface said:
I don’t post this lightly, but having spent the last few days with a couple of people in very senior positions at the PL - they are certainly feeling very confident in their position.

You’d expect that, to a point - and clearly this would only be of note or concern if we are to assume either the result has landed with both City and the PL already ahead of publication, and they are therefore reflecting an informed view - or if, given its imminence, the relevant parties have an early impression of the broad direction the ruling is going to take.

On this - it’s worth reiterating that @slbsn has been pretty clear that he has been told, as of close of play on Friday, neither party had received the result - so I’m hoping he’s right on that, as in that context the views relayed to me could simply be evidence of a general level of bravado/confidence/arrogance on behalf of the PL ahead of publication, and not indicative of any specific knowledge.

It’s also worth saying that I don’t know these people well, so whilst certain comments definitely felt more indiscreet than others - they could also simply be holding an agreed/mandated company line or corporate position on the charges which don’t indicate anything of substance either way.

But I find this unlikely, as I’d expect the company line would be to say nothing - and to hold that they are waiting for the panel to arrive at its judgement before making any substantive comments on the situation.

That said, they were definitely very bullish in tone, and dismissed any view that City’s position on the charges held any credibility whatsoever.
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Sounds like the average position of any rag you meet in the street. I mean the people at the PL btw not the poster. Bullish position and an immediate dismissal of any credibility in the clubs defence. Anyone claiming to know the outcome or even have had a tip off is talking rubbish. First time the outcome leaks, it'll be leaked to the press in a heartbeat. Obviously people who work for the premier league are going to be confident, you don't think their highly paid barristers came back and said "well that was a shit show, lets get to the pub".
 
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dominicgrimes said:
if judges don't want to undermine each other, why do we bother with appeal courts and a supreme court ?

different judges put different interpretations on evidence based on their own experience
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Judgments in arbitration cases are different. The CAS decision is excellent evidence for City, in the whole. High Court decisions shape the way policy/law is applied. They look at the evidence and matters of law to ensure the verdict was sound. They eliminate any interpretations that have veered too far away from the evidence or policies/law. Turning up with the CAS verdict is a huge positive with City, and something the panel will take seriously when it comes to the evidence considered in that case. But the fact we didn't convince all three suggests to me there might be some doubt in our evidence when it comes to this panel. I could be way off the mark, which is why I wondered if PB had any thoughts - it's clear he isn't concerned so my guess is no!
 
The Colonel said:
The Uefa selected judge who ignored the fact that there was “no evidence”. A weird one to say the least. What’s different here though is that this is a deep dive into City’s accounts rather than relying on senior employees statements.
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I'm certain I am probably overthinking it. Just wanted to express it, with the hope people could calm the only nagging doubt I still have!
 
supercity88 said:
Judgments in arbitration cases are different. The CAS decision is excellent evidence for City, in the whole. High Court decisions shape the way policy/law is applied. They look at the evidence and matters of law to ensure the verdict was sound. They eliminate any interpretations that have veered too far away from the evidence or policies/law. Turning up with the CAS verdict is a huge positive with City, and something the panel will take seriously when it comes to the evidence considered in that case. But the fact we didn't convince all three suggests to me there might be some doubt in our evidence when it comes to this panel. I could be way off the mark, which is why I wondered if PB had any thoughts - it's clear he isn't concerned so my guess is no!
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The CAS ruling is not a High Court judgement, it was a finding of fact based on the evidence heard at that hearing.

There is nothing in CAS decision that sets any sort of legal precedent. Their ruling is not binding or even persuasive to the PL tribunal who will be basing their decision on the (presumably much more substantial) body of evidence that was brought before them.
 
supercity88 said:
Judgments in arbitration cases are different. The CAS decision is excellent evidence for City, in the whole. High Court decisions shape the way policy/law is applied. They look at the evidence and matters of law to ensure the verdict was sound. They eliminate any interpretations that have veered too far away from the evidence or policies/law. Turning up with the CAS verdict is a huge positive with City, and something the panel will take seriously when it comes to the evidence considered in that case. But the fact we didn't convince all three suggests to me there might be some doubt in our evidence when it comes to this panel. I could be way off the mark, which is why I wondered if PB had any thoughts - it's clear he isn't concerned so my guess is no!
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One thing to note from my own research, all the members of PL Judicial Panel who by default have experience in sport are also arbitors at CAS, all of them.
However, those from CAS2020 are not on the PLs panel, including the nut case Prof Haas who no doubt pushed for the unprecedented fine of 10m for non-coop.
 
supercity88 said:
I'm certain I am probably overthinking it. Just wanted to express it, with the hope people could calm the only nagging doubt I still have!
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That 2-1 is something that bothers me too sometimes. And also the wording on some of those emails, the bit we all ignore on here. Plausibly deniable, of course, but also plausibly a smoking gun.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
That 2-1 is something that bothers me too sometimes. And also the wording on some of those emails, the bit we all ignore on here. Plausibly deniable, of course, but also plausibly a smoking gun.
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It shouldn’t be forgotten that the CAS report stated, in relation to one of the worst sounding emails…

“Was sent 10 years ago and two years before the implementation of the CLFFPR. So, even if true, at the time there would have been nothing wrong with channelling equity funding through sponsors.”
 
supercity88 said:
Judgments in arbitration cases are different. The CAS decision is excellent evidence for City, in the whole. High Court decisions shape the way policy/law is applied. They look at the evidence and matters of law to ensure the verdict was sound. They eliminate any interpretations that have veered too far away from the evidence or policies/law. Turning up with the CAS verdict is a huge positive with City, and something the panel will take seriously when it comes to the evidence considered in that case. But the fact we didn't convince all three suggests to me there might be some doubt in our evidence when it comes to this panel. I could be way off the mark, which is why I wondered if PB had any thoughts - it's clear he isn't concerned so my guess is no!
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The UEFA judge found against us, which you'd have expected. City were never going to get all three judges finding for us at CAS.
 
dickie davies said:
Because even if the club is cleared of everything, it will always be referred to as 'Manchester City, who were charged more than 100 times with breaking Premier league financial rules'
Meanwhile you never hear Juventus referred to as 'Juventus, who were found guilty of bribing officials and relegated two divisions'
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I have to say, I couldn't care less about Juventus, or Marseilles, or any other team's coverage in the media.

Also, as long as I'm enjoying City doing well, why should I need any reassurance from the same media whose opinion I never value, anyway?

I'd rather just enjoy the good days.
 
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Didsbury Dave said:
That 2-1 is something that bothers me too sometimes. And also the wording on some of those emails, the bit we all ignore on here. Plausibly deniable, of course, but also plausibly a smoking gun.
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You have to remember that City chose one judge UEFA chose one but the one that mattered was the CAS judge as he was the one who was going to have the casting vote.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
That 2-1 is something that bothers me too sometimes. And also the wording on some of those emails, the bit we all ignore on here. Plausibly deniable, of course, but also plausibly a smoking gun.
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The 2-1 was due to Prof Haas who suffered from a severe form of Judicial psychosis during CAS2020. He said because we didn't co-operate with the thoroughly corrupt UEFA hatchet men he didn't care to consider any of our evidence and we were guilty by default. So it was an idealogical decision for him. The other two said..
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