Villa v Maccabi Tel Aviv - away fans banned | MTA confirm they will refuse any allocation for safety reasons (p26)

The Fat el Hombre said:
LOL, andrew fox. Another israeli propagandist spreading bullshit for low IQ gullible morons. This guy:

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He's also encouraged the murder of journalists - Tweet

Hasn't stopped our media from platforming him, mind - Sky news GBeebies

Anyway back to the racist maccabi hooligans, quick deep dive on them and their fans:

1 - they took mossad agents with them Jerusalem post (this is like us bringing the MI6 on a euro away.) and went round attacking people. Lowkey interviewed a well known local witness who said that maccabi hooligans were "just tearing up the streets, attacking people, throwing stuff, kicking people off their bikes". He says there were over 300 of them and some were wearing idf shirts. Youtube.

Even the mail reported on this one - "Israeli football hooligans tear down Palestine flags in Amsterdam as taxi drivers 'fight back' in night of chaos ahead of Maccabi Tel Aviv's visit to Ajax" Mail

2 - nice maccabi sing song round town of "Death to the arabs" Video

3 - disrespected the victims of the Valencia flood which tragically took the lives of over 2 hundred people Video

4 - Maccabi fans were 'traumatised' apparently, but that didn't stop them singing their lovely little ditty:

"Ole ole, ole ole ole, Let the IDF win & fuck the Arabs, Ole ole, ole ole ole, Why is school out in Gaza? There are no children left there!”" Video

Note that cctv of local women being attacked and spat on by maccabi hooligans was erased - Dutch News Al Jazeera

Bit of extra context on maccabi - Their CFO was sacked earlier this year for saying "Anyone who travels to Africa should not be surprised to find monkeys around him" Twitter. At least they sacked him I suppose...

As a proud british patriot I am very relieved that these racist maccabi hooligans won't be invading our shores. Hopefully Birmingham council and police stand up to the israel lobby and stick by the decision to ban these scumbags
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Thank you for sharing this.

Macabbi fans undoubtedly include a large and horrible group of people who repeatedly weaponise accusations of antisemitism to excuse their thuggish behaviour.
It's a nonsense argument of course (as if Israel is somehow the only country that hasn't produced football hooligans) but people (most of them well-meaning, I hope) seem conditioned to playing the antisemitism card every time any Israeli institution is mentioned.
 
M16 citeh said:
Anti Zionist... Should be the default position of any progressive person. But seemingly not
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Why?

There’s nothing wrong in believing that Jews have the right to a homeland where they can self determine and democratically vote for their own govt and laws. Looking back to how Jews were treated across Europe, North Africa and the Middle East from the early-1800s (probably centuries earlier in Europe) through to WW2, I completely understand why Zionism came about as an idea, why Jews believed in it and why it was enacted.

Zionism also encompasses that country being open for Muslims, Christians, atheists, Arabs, Europeans and anyone else who fancies living there, to live there, with the same rights as the rest of the population.

Extremism is different though, and shouldn’t be conflated with the idea of Zionism in its simple form. The extremists may well be Zionists, but anarchists aren’t the same as socialists, despite both being left-wing. Not all Zionists are extremist, fascist, idiots. Many Zionsists won’t believe in the idea of a ‘Greater Israel’, won’t agree with the appaling treatment of Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank, and many are left-wing or not political or not religious. There are Muslim, Christian and atheist Zionists who live in Israel and there are Zionists who’ve protested against the Israel govts actions and who haven’t and never will vote for Netanyahu.

Now, Maccabi Tel Aviv fans do have a reputation of being extreme Zionsists but there are many sets of fans around Europe who have extremist ideals as a core tenet of their hooligan firms, and nobody really ever pays any attention to them.

The argument for banning them for this game is purely based on their continued displays of hooliganism, the threat they pose to people in Birmingham as well as the threat that locals would pose towards them (as there will be many who are just regular Maccabi fans who couldn’t fight sleep and don’t want to cause trouble) who would come to attack the Maccabi fans. But I don’t particularly agree with it.

Now the idea that Israel sports teams should be banned in the basis that Russian teams have, is a more valid argument, than banning fans when they have been allowed to travel to other games since the Ajax debacle where their team hasn’t been banned. It’s not the fans that should be targeted around this issue, it’s UEFA and FIFA with regards to Israeli sports teams.

I’d have agreed if a ban of Israeli sports teams came in two years ago, but I don’t agree with Maccabi fans being banned from the Villa game while their team isn’t banned. Further ideas should be explored like busing them in-and-out where they can’t enter Birmingham other than at the turnstiles of Villa Park. This is even enacted when Burnley play Blackburn, so it can be bloody done with a set of fans arriving at an airport from abroad.
 
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GXCity said:
I understand both sides here, but what if they were playing in Manchester next week instead of Birmingham? I’d be appalled if they banned them after the atrocity in Prestwich, and I’d want the our police to ensure they could attend and would want our city to stand up together against any attacks or protests.

For those saying that sections of their fans sing ‘death to the Arabs’, we have seen people arrested at pro Palestinian marches for the same chants against Jews. Surely their fans get held at a meeting point, bused in to the ground and anyone heard singing such songs are arrested and banned from the game. We see that approach for Burnley/Blackburn for example and from what I see it works.
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That is one of the main issues here, Maccabi hooligans should not be being talked of like just some other Israeli tourists here for a holiday, they are known violent thugs, lije Warsaw fans, Lodź fans etc Using our jewish communities to excuse them coming as Starmer and pur medua have is mixing 2 different things


The Synagog attack a horric tragedy amd stain on our society or any other antisemetuc attack or abuse the British Jewish community have had upon them should not be even attatched to. this conversation.


Maccabi Fanatics, their hooligan group and those the Police are concerned with and why the ban is in place are known. racist, far right, violent thugs who. have been used as a mob in Israel itself to. attack anti-government protesters.

To say we cannot ban this group of Jews for their history of violence because this community of Jews were attacked and murdered is basically saying all Jews are the same and a dangerous narative to go down.

If we were playing them, because of what happened in Prestwich and the high risk of further tensions being caused by these Hooligansand their provocations I wouldn't want our own community still grieving to have the added stress of potential violence due to tensions from outside sources.

Add to that the Fake patriots and toy soldier tommy robinson have already latched onto this to use to further their agenda, potential powderkeg of trouble has been averted with this sensible ban
 
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Fred_Quimby said:
You can take that both ways. A pro Palestinian rally is peaceful whilst 1000 Macarbi supporters are out to cause trouble.
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Are they? I’ve seen quite a few with violence and blatant anti semitic signs and chants. Of course that’s a minority, but there’s no point in pretending it hasn’t happened.

Forget why this happening, how have we got to a stage where the police can’t handle 1,000 fans or protests?

The women’s Israeli football team gets drawn to play at villa park, do we stop their fans from attending? (Those same threats will still be there)
 
plattlanebenches said:
It’s not anti semetic it’s anti Israeli, there is a difference.
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Well you could argue that point but I won't. British people who are openly Jewish say they don't feel safe walking around Birmingham. Reported antisemitic incidents are massively up. That's the nub of the problem here. If it was Maccabi Haifa, or some other Israeli club whose fans had no reputation and the police said they couldn't guarantee their safety, what would the justification be?

And there are plenty of foreign fans with equally bad reputations. Polish and Russian fans to name two and Rangers & Celtic fans who cause large-scale chaos. Some Polish fans came to Manchester not because their team was playing, but to attack the Spanish fans whose team were playing here and that they had a beef with. British police have imposed all sorts of draconian restrictions on fans for some high-risk games. Why can't they do that here?

We have fans who sing about bodies lying on runways and having ten dead united fans at their feet. Whats the difference?
 
superwatsonwatson said:
The indefinite ban was lifted in the summer of 1990. Any fair minded person would expect it to be for the 1990/91 season when all teams (bar Liverpool)would know they would be competing for European places. But in effect, they retrospectively allowed nited back in Europe for winning the FA Cup the previous season.
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I know it was mate - I wasn’t arguing about when the ban was lifted. I’m just pointing out that there was talk of lifting it a year earlier than that.
 
plattlanebenches said:
It’s not anti semetic it’s anti Israeli, there is a difference.
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Yea it’s nothing to do with being Jewish…. But the police are extremely concerned about an anti semitic terrorist attacks after the one we just had in Manchester.

I’d also say try and walk around certain areas of Birmingham as an openly Jewish person. I’m sure there would be no problems there. Of course it’s not the only factor, but To try and pretend anti semitism isn’t a problem here, is a bit ridiculous.

When you say anti Isreal, is that anti the Israeli government or just anyone that happens to be from Isreal?
 
I understand your point mate and any violent attack on people just because they’re Jewish is abhorrent. My point is simply that criticism and disgust at Israel for their war atrocities has nothing to do with the Jewish faith just as it wouldn’t be if they were a Christian country.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:


I think you do have to question West Midlands police. What happens if in the next international tournament Isreal are drawn to play at villa park?
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Or if Frankfurt come to town who boast of having the largest hooligan firm in Europe of over 2,000 hools in one group alone, who, even when banned, turn up in their droves and smash everything up anyway?



Are we going to start banning all sets of fans with large hooligan problems? Or are we just picking and choosing?
 
mad4city said:
This isn't about religion. Religion is only the backdrop to the problem.
Maccabi fans have form for violence. The city of Birmingham doesn't want them. It's happened to violent sets of fans (and those perceived to be violent ) for decades.
End of story. Or at least it should be.

This ban is not antisemitic. That's a strawman and everyone knows it.
The constant spin of antisemitism, every time any Israeli institution is criticised (even for genocide/ quasi-genocidal war crimes ffs), is wholly shameless and a disservice to decent people everywhere.
It needs to be called out for the scurrilous and disingenuous behaviour it is because the world is sliding downhill to a stage where the term, antisemitism, is in real danger of losing its value.

Quite simply, for humanity's sake, that's a dangerous road for us all to be on.
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The ban isn't in itself antisemitic but it is in response to antisemitism from the people who live in certain Birmingham communities. MTA fans are far from the worst. The antisemitic element in Birmingham hate those fans for where they come from, pure and simple. And yet again, our cowardly police forces are grovelling to the perpetrators while failing to protect the victims of race hate.
 
People on here saying Maccabi have a reputation for being racist hooligans. Apart from the incidents in Amsterdam which were far from their fault (people should read the court transcripts before bandwagon jumping) and a fracas in Greece, where has this reputation come from. Most on here couldn’t name more than three Israeli teams yet suddenly they can all claim that Maccabi have built up this reputation. Utter bollocks, this ban is purely due to Muslim / Gaza MP and councillors stirring the pot and supported by racist Imams doing the same. In this instance it’s the local population who are unable to control themselves. Should we be banning Gala fans from the Etihad?
 
Manc Born & Bred said:
People on here saying Maccabi have a reputation for being racist hooligans. Apart from the incidents in Amsterdam which were far from their fault (people should read the court transcripts before bandwagon jumping) and a fracas in Greece, where has this reputation come from. Most on here couldn’t name more than three Israeli teams yet suddenly they can all claim that Maccabi have built up this reputation. Utter bollocks, this ban is purely due to Muslim / Gaza MP and councillors stirring the pot and supported by racist Imams doing the same. In this instance it’s the local population who are unable to control themselves. Should we be banning Gala fans from the Etihad?
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This is spot on.
 
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