The Labour Government

[domalino]

Nah. Id take labour over farage anytime.

I'm not really sure how that's a reply to my comment? The whole point is you don't avoid the right wing coming to power by moving towards them. Nothing announced yesterday stops Farage.

 

[Vic]

And who exactly is going to stop it?
Edit: and how?

Stop what?

Leave him to his culture war obsessions.

 

[maxwellblue]

Isn’t it interesting how quiet the reform voters are on Labours proposals on immigration, they just can’t accept labour achieving anything.

Not as interesting as the hypocrisy from the lefties who are all celebrating labours proposals which are Reform ideas.

 

[Vic]

Your problem is the likes of investment companies such as Blackrock who are powerful enough to make and break governments. Blackrock alone holds over $12 trillion of assets, many of the assets being utilities. They are also the holders of billions in government debt and hence set the rate at which governments can borrow.

Even if you could take back ownership from these the costs would be huge. If you wanted to take back generation, transmission and distribution, you’re not getting much change from £200Bn.

How much would the average household save ? About a quarter of their annual bill or around £400 per year for the average household.

28.5 million homes in the UK, saving £400 is around £11.5Bn per year, so to break even about 17.5 years if you brought it back in to public ownership. That’s not taking into account the borrowing which the government would need to do, which of course would require the issuing of gilts which Blackrock and their ilk effectively sets the interest rates on.

The word checkmate comes to mind.

And if you think that’s outrageous, the latest from Blackrock is that the UK’s housing stock is “an undervalued asset” and as such they are providing funding, but on the basis of the properties being built are for rental or shared ownership. Meanwhile their old buddies Blackstone (was the same company until 1994) are hoovering up properties to rent out. So far they have bought over 11000 but intend to keep buying more.

Just as Thatcher wanted with privatisation... a share-owning, property-owning democracy. And some still revere her.

 

[oldius]

Not as interesting as the hypocrisy from the lefties who are all celebrating labours proposals which are Reform ideas.

I haven't seen that.
In fact, I saw that the Green Party is now the leading party for the under 50's, measured by voting intention. Zack Polanski's ideas are not compatible with those from Reform, or, apparently, the Labour Party, and well done to him for moving away from both.

 

[oldius]

Just as Thatcher wanted with privatisation... a share-owning, property-owning democracy. And some still revere her.

Placing essentials into the hands of capitalism seems intrinsically stupid.
I cannot choose whether to heat my home or cook a meal or use water.

 

[hcblue95]

Not as interesting as the hypocrisy from the lefties who are all celebrating labours proposals which are Reform ideas.

You're calling them lefties, I wouldn't call them lefties. But then again you think Starmer is a Marxist.

 

[Vic]

It's not. It's a demonstration of how lower taxes can make your country appear rich on paper, per capita, if you have a very small population, and basically run a bunch of massive corporations' profits through the books in your country. Large countries can't do that, because large countries are the ones actually generating those profits in the first place, and tax havens like Ireland are 'getting rich' (not that it's translated to the wages of ordinary people) by effectively allowing companies to avoid taxes on wealth created in those bigger markets. It's just absolute bollocks that a country of 60 or 70 million can get rich by following the model of some microstate or tax haven.

I still wonder how much of London's GDP is from stuff made outside London.

 

[Don Karleone]

Next week's will be more interesting, this obviously won't take into account the Mahmood's big plan.

I expect it will change nothing, but it will be quite good to see how much/little Labour doing what reform voters "want" actually changes voting intention.

Some of the info about the plan was out there, but I agree that next week's poll will be more enlightening. I also can't see much changing either.


Nice to see the Green Party surge continue.

 

[M18CTID]

It's pretty clear at this point that user has gone headfirst down the alt-right rabbithole and can't see the entrance anymore. His posts are justcliched RW talking points stitched together with expletives, rarely having much to do with the topic at hand.

He's probably just best left to his own devices in a corner and ignored, it's not like the posts are adding anything to the discussion, but it's something we're going to see happen more and more as MAGA money and tactics keeps getting pumped into this country.

Seeing what's happened to him is nothing short of astonishing. He spoke a lot of sense in the run-up to the Brexit vote, urging commonsense and saying we were far better off in than out. I was pretty much on the fence throughout and did end up voting leave - which led to him calling me an idiot! - but I digested a lot of what he'd posted because he articulated it pretty well, plus we used to share inestment ideas over PM. My opinion for a good few years now is that Chippy was right back then and if there was another vote tomorrow I'd absolutely be voting to go back in, whereas Chippy has gone from one of the biggest Remainers to one of the biggest Brexiters on this forum. That's some bizarre turnaround!

 

[BlueHammer85]

It's pretty clear at this point that user has gone headfirst down the alt-right rabbithole and can't see the entrance anymore. His posts are justcliched RW talking points stitched together with expletives, rarely having much to do with the topic at hand.

He's probably just best left to his own devices in a corner and ignored, it's not like the posts are adding anything to the discussion, but it's something we're going to see happen more and more as MAGA money and tactics keeps getting pumped into this country.

Yep, used to make valid points and a decent poster, now just parroting MAGA style clichés shite no matter what Labour do. taken Bigga's place as the resident nutjob bore.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Not as interesting as the hypocrisy from the lefties who are all celebrating labours proposals which are Reform ideas.

Reform want a complete freeze on immigration, leave the ECHR, mass deportation and use the Navy to turn back the boats.

None of that has been proposed by Labour. instead they're using fair and measured controls which if work, will make Reform look like right bellends.

 

[Earlyriser]

It used to be have a sound, fair and compassionate one, no loonger it seems as they have decided appease the reform voter instead of confronting them for what they are.

That's when those who were arriving were genuine political refugees who were fleeing political oppression rather than being an economic migrant. We also have always had economic migrants but they have arrived through legitimate means. The system is not geared to 36000 people arriving with no means of identification. If they were genuine political migrants they would not destroy their IDs and other documentation

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Reform want a complete freeze on immigration, leave the ECHR, mass deportation and use the Navy to turn back the boats.

None of that has been proposed by Labour. instead they're using fair and measured controls which if work, will make Reform look like right bellends.

Im not sure that the twenty year path to citizenship is ''fair and measured''.... Id much rather see a stable , contributing member of society (with no criminal record)

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Im not sure that the twenty year path to citizenship is ''fair and measured''.... Id much rather see a stable , contributing member of society (with no criminal record)

The package is interesting. The safe and legal Ukraine style scheme so more and more people can help migrants by taking them into their own homes, as well as the talented refugee scheme. Removal of obligations on government to not have to leave people destitute, and cut off support, appear very harsh to me though. 20 years will come down I’m sure

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

I'm not really sure how that's a reply to my comment? The whole point is you don't avoid the right wing coming to power by moving towards them. Nothing announced yesterday stops Farage.

You said a lot, I basically prefer Labour than Reform being in power.

But that's because my pov is that I see a lot of work colleagues, neighbours, people I meet, my own brother and I see their journey (Especially my bro but others too) from no interest in racism, to casual racism, through liking Boris and his racist comments, becoming GB news dependant, hating that Conservatives are now led by someone they just do not like (Black, funny name -- Its that basic!), to now voting for Farage and his lot.

And that's because they feel they haven't been listened to imo. They see services not keeping up etc etc.. but more importantly they see the hatred being spread by the right wing using immigration to further their ambitions. And I believe that is shaping their minds. My brother wasn't ever racist, he couldn't be arsed with any of that. (When I say racist I mean blaming immigration for everything)

For me, the country being together (Not tearing apart) is the most important and trumps how we treat immigration, because the end game is that we end up with an actual racists party that will stop even the immigration we clearly do need.

So no it isnt ideal, but it means the people that I know, above, now have an alternate choice.

Might be a pipe dream but I think its an improvement on what we are heading towards if we do nothing.

 

[mosssideblue]

Reform want a complete freeze on immigration, leave the ECHR, mass deportation and use the Navy to turn back the boats.

None of that has been proposed by Labour. instead they're using fair and measured controls which if work, will make Reform look like right bellends.

They already do

 

[blueparrot]

That's when those who were arriving were genuine political refugees who were fleeing political oppression rather than being an economic migrant. We also have always had economic migrants but they have arrived through legitimate means. The system is not geared to 36000 people arriving with no means of identification. If they were genuine political migrants they would not destroy their IDs and other documentation

Some will be genuine some won’t think the figure is, when cases are heard, 70% are accepted and therefore genuine.. Treating genuine and none genuine the same isn’t acceptable or shouldn’t be.

 

[moomba]

Since when was wanting a sound immigration policy incompatible with Labour values?

They dont care about a sound immigration policy. If they did they would be talking about the positive impact immigration and immigrants can have on the country while recognising that immigration needs to be controlled.

They're interested in winning the next election, that's all.

 

[hampshireblue]

It's pretty clear at this point that user has gone headfirst down the alt-right rabbithole and can't see the entrance anymore. His posts are justcliched RW talking points stitched together with expletives, rarely having much to do with the topic at hand.

He's probably just best left to his own devices in a corner and ignored, it's not like the posts are adding anything to the discussion, but it's something we're going to see happen more and more as MAGA money and tactics keeps getting pumped into this country.

He certainly has and still has me blocked from months ago when I challenged him over some stuff. I'd forgotten that when I replied directly to him this morning. His whole tone has changed since he bombarded this board a few months ago and I genuinely hope he's OK because some of the stuff he is now writing suggests not.

I'm not sure how a block works, in that if I have replied and then someone responds to that, doe the OP still get to see both replies or is the blocked completely invisible to the OP?