The Labour Government

[hilts]

If he’s posted it, then it must be true.

No reason to doubt it.

His neighbour who coincidentally works for the OBR told him.

 

[bluethrunthru]

If you get a company car and rant about this then ask yourself - if your company car list allows Audi's and BMW's then the lease scheme - because thats what Motability is - cut them from your scheme and you are only allowed cars up to the value of a Corsa. Thats fair? I worked in a place once when the company car was a base model Peugeot 309 two door. When we asked why the director ( who drove a Range Rover ) told us "because they don't do a one door. The politics of envy is not an upward punching thing its a downward punching one

'Premium' cars like BMW and Mercedes cut from Motability scheme

Motability says it will provide vehicles that meet disabled peoples' needs and are safe and affordable.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Under the circumstances, they’re doing well.

However, those on the right will always make hay. It’s the left that scare me at the moment.

 

[meltonblue]

£7bn per 100k. So each is paying £70k in tax? Per year? That sounds very unlikely.

I don’t think his figures are right but it’s not just about what taxes they pay. Think it’s based on this report -

The impact of migration on the fiscal forecast - Office for Budget Responsibility

Following the upwards revision to our migration forecast, this box explored the implications of higher migration on our central forecasts for tax revenues, spending and borrowing. We also drew on alternative scenarios for migration to illustrate how uncertainty in the migration forecast...

obr.uk

 

[NPBlue]

You are Zak Polanski and I claim my £10 prize.

That hasn't answered the question.

 

[mayo31]

The right wouldn’t vote for a woman to be PM then?

The Tories won’t be getting the right wing vote with a woman in charge?

I can see you’ve put a lot of thought into this one.

You ignore the point she is black though because that is the real truth

Her being a woman just adds to it and I did consider putting that in or not my first post.

In my opinion these right wing / reform voters are generally always looking backwards to a time that has gone when white men ran the show and women supported the husband.

He appeals to the misogynist voter.

 

[mosssideblue]

If you get a company car and rant about this then ask yourself - if your company car list allows Audi's and BMW's then the lease scheme - because thats what Motability is - cut them from your scheme and you are only allowed cars up to the value of a Corsa. Thats fair? I worked in a place once when the company car was a base model Peugeot 309 two door. When we asked why the director ( who drove a Range Rover ) told us "because they don't do a one door. The politics of envy is not an upward punching thing its a downward punching one

'Premium' cars like BMW and Mercedes cut from Motability scheme

Motability says it will provide vehicles that meet disabled peoples' needs and are safe and affordable.

www.bbc.co.uk

Re motability cars, it’s horses for courses and not one size fits all. Also, it’s not as “ free” as some would think.

I need a Mercedes Sprinter or big VW but for these types of vehicles, Motability want an upfront down payment of £20k+ as well as your full motability element of PiP. I don’t have that kind of money, so have to buy old second hand adapted cars.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Sky News going big on day 1 employment rights, have Labour U-turned or been pragmatic to ensure the rest of the bill is passed?

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Sky News going big on day 1 employment rights, have Labour U-turned or been pragmatic to ensure the rest of the bill is passed?

According to Labour... to ensure that the bill is passed. Day 1 rights to sue for unfair dismissal was always going to be tough (and to be honest is unfair on employers) I ,personally, would prefer to see rights affirmed when the individual gets through a probationary period (with obvious limits placed on employers re length of such periods )

There's also a narrative building in the right wing press about Labour reneging on manifesto promises. (how many times did the Tories do that with NO press commentary )

 

[Kompany Car]

If you get a company car and rant about this then ask yourself - if your company car list allows Audi's and BMW's then the lease scheme - because thats what Motability is - cut them from your scheme and you are only allowed cars up to the value of a Corsa. Thats fair? I worked in a place once when the company car was a base model Peugeot 309 two door. When we asked why the director ( who drove a Range Rover ) told us "because they don't do a one door. The politics of envy is not an upward punching thing its a downward punching one

'Premium' cars like BMW and Mercedes cut from Motability scheme

Motability says it will provide vehicles that meet disabled peoples' needs and are safe and affordable.

www.bbc.co.uk

Its not really the same is it. Most business car schemes work on the basis of an allowance that forms part of your remuneration from undertaking payed work, i.e. trading your time for money. The money more often than not doesn't cover much beyond a basic model. Anything above that and you are paying additionally out of your pay and paying BIK at your income tax level plus a percentage based on emissions, making petrol and diesel cars expensive.

Whilst insurance is included, these days it tends to only cover the employee and not their partners or other members of the family.

Like many things, company car schemes aren't the perk they once were, my brother, who is 15yrs older than me, used to get a completely free car, full insurance for everyone in his immediate family, a free fuel card and didn't pay any tax on it. Minus the free fuel car I agree that scheme is more akin to the motability scheme.

Now with all that said, Im personally not too bothered which car people have with disabilities, as long as its suited to the individual. I do however think insurance should be more limited on motability, in particular when it comes to young drivers.

One major impact as a result will be the reduction in "up market" brands on the second hand market which will mean those who buy second hand Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc will probably be paying more.

 

[Brewster's millions]

You ignore the point she is black though because that is the real truth

Her being a woman just adds to it and I did consider putting that in or not my first post.

In my opinion these right wing / reform voters are generally always looking backwards to a time that has gone when white men ran the show and women supported the husband.

He appeals to the misogynist voter.

If these people want a middle class white bloke running the show, with their wives smiling meekly in the background, then they’d be voting Labour, as that’s the only type of leader they’ve ever had. Starmer fits the bill perfectly.

You appear to think that these new reform voters, especially the racist reform voters, would only ever have voted Conservative previously. Because we all know that anyone voting Labour couldn’t possibly be a racist, and that the left has never, ever had a problem with racism, don’t we?

Again, it’s a solid argument and I can see the thought you’ve put into it.

 

[metalblue]

I don’t think his figures are right but it’s not just about what taxes they pay. Think it’s based on this report -

The impact of migration on the fiscal forecast - Office for Budget Responsibility

Following the upwards revision to our migration forecast, this box explored the implications of higher migration on our central forecasts for tax revenues, spending and borrowing. We also drew on alternative scenarios for migration to illustrate how uncertainty in the migration forecast...

obr.uk

Cheers for link MB. It’s estimated to be £7.3bn per 300,000 adults migrating. So £23k made up of income tax and VAT etc I can see that being accurate as migrants will likely have decent paying jobs don’t have any “debt” where the state has paid for their education etc.

The worrying aspect of this story in this “net migration down” story is we have more youngsters leaving (18-34) who see their future away from the UK. Over 250k British nationals on that age group upped and left - and this was in 2024 so it’s not a Labour are driving young people away story, it’s a trend that doesn’t appear linked to who is in power.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

According to Labour... to ensure that the bill is passed. Day 1 rights to sue for unfair dismissal was always going to be tough (and to be honest is unfair on employers) I ,personally, would prefer to see rights affirmed when the individual gets through a probationary period (with obvious limits placed on employers re length of such periods )

There's also a narrative building in the right wing press about Labour reneging on manifesto promises. (how many times did the Tories do that with NO press commentary )

Not seen much of politics in the last week but, putting the news on this morning, there was some serious outrage that this had been changed, even though they were complaining about it some months ago.

The actual detail seems nice but in reality is unworkable and can be easily manipulated.

 

[metalblue]

Not seen much of politics in the last week but, putting the news on this morning, there was some serious outrage that this had been changed, even though they were complaining about it some months ago.

The actual detail seems nice but in reality is unworkable and can be easily manipulated.

Which begs the question why did someone even suggest this in the first place followed by how did it get this far before someone with a brain said…hang on a minute.

I agree with @Ifwecouldjust....... that post a probation period feels a more sensible approach- and perhaps cap the time probation can run for to safe guard it.

 

[metalblue]

If these people want a middle class white bloke running the show, with their wives smiling meekly in the background, then they’d be voting Labour, as that’s the only type of leader they’ve ever had. Starmer fits the bill perfectly.

You appear to think that these new reform voters, especially the racist reform voters, would only ever have voted Conservative previously. Because we all know that anyone voting Labour couldn’t possibly be a racist, and that the left has never, ever had a problem with racism, don’t we?

Again, it’s a solid argument and I can see the thought you’ve put into it.

Spot on. Plenty of former Labour voters have “defected” to reform and it’s an uncomfortable truth for a few on here. To quote myself

A fair point but if we cast our mind back 25-35% of Labour voters voted for Brexit. We’re frequently told on here that anyone who voted for Brexit did so because they didn’t like foreigners.

I guess voters don’t fit neatly in to boxes. Plenty of Tory voters don’t give two shits about immigration and plenty of Labour voters do. Their votes are likely cast on what they see as the most important thing to them and which party matches that rather than fully agreeing with a lot of the ideology.

To your point I would say if you see immigration as the single most important thing to fix you’re probably attracted to reform - and maybe this weeks announcement won’t change that, we will have to wait for the polls to tell us in the coming weeks if we see reform start to slide.

 

[Chippy_boy]

That hasn't answered the question.

No, because it was such an inane question underserving of a response AND/OR a lame attempt at baiting. But nevertheless I will indulge you to show what a daft post it was:

Here’s a clear, data-driven list of countries whose economies collapsed in a severe, systemic way — whether through hyperinflation, state failure, war, or debt defaults. I’ve included key statistics like GDP contractions, inflation levels, currency losses, and unemployment.

This is not exhaustive, but it covers the most widely recognised “economic collapses” in the modern era.

Looking at Greece specifically, they are recovering from their situation with the help of massive IMF bailout. If we go that way, the IMF cannot afford it - our economy is too big for them to save.

---

Major Economic Collapses (with Stats)​

1. Zimbabwe (2007–2009) — Hyperinflation Collapse​

Type: Complete monetary collapse, hyperinflation
Key Stats:

• Hyperinflation peaked at 89.7 sextillion percent (10²¹%) per year (Nov 2008)
• Prices doubled every 24 hours
• GDP fell 17% in 2008
• Central bank issued 100 trillion dollar notes
  Outcome: Abandoned its currency; switched to USD/ZAR.

---

2. Venezuela (2014–present) — Hyperinflation + State Collapse​

Type: Hyperinflation, collapse of oil sector, institutional failure
Key Stats:

• Inflation peaked at 10,000,000% in 2018
• GDP contracted by ~75% between 2014–2022
• Oil production down from 3.5m bpd (1998) to ~700k bpd (2020)
• Poverty rate > 90%
  Outcome: Ongoing crisis; partial dollarisation.

---

3. Argentina (2001–2002) — Sovereign Default + Banking Collapse​

Type: Currency crisis, default, depression
Key Stats:

• Peso lost 75% of value in 2002
• GDP contracted 20% in 4 years
• Unemployment hit 25%
• Sovereign default of $100bn (largest at the time)
  Outcome: Social and political crisis; long recovery.

---

4. Greece (2010–2015) — Debt Crisis​

Type: Sovereign debt collapse, depression
Key Stats:

• GDP fell 25% between 2008–2016
• Unemployment peaked at 27.5%
• Youth unemployment over 60%
• Public debt > 180% of GDP
  Outcome: Bailouts, austerity, long-term stagnation.

---

5. Soviet Union (1990–1992) — Systemic Collapse​

Type: Complete economic + political disintegration
Key Stats:

• GDP contracted 40% in early 1990s (post-collapse)
• Industrial output fell 50%
• Inflation exceeded 2,500% in 1992 (Russia)
  Outcome: End of USSR; transition shock.

---

6. Weimar Germany (1921–1923) — Classical Hyperinflation​

Type: Hyperinflationary collapse
Key Stats:

• Prices doubled every 3.7 days
• Inflation reached 29,500% per month (late 1923)
• 1 USD = 4.2 trillion marks by Nov 1923
  Outcome: Currency replaced by the Rentenmark.

---

7. Yugoslavia (1992–1994) — World’s Worst Hyperinflation​

Type: Hyperinflation + civil war
Key Stats:

• Inflation of 5 × 10¹⁵% per month (Jan 1994)
• Prices doubled every 34 hours
• Currency redenominated 5 times
  Outcome: Currency collapse; country dissolved.

---

8. North Korea (1990s) — Famine + Economic Collapse​

Type: State collapse + famine
Key Stats:

• GDP fell by ~35% between 1990–1998
• Famine deaths: 600,000–2,000,000
• Industrial output collapsed by 50%
  Outcome: Partial recovery later, but chronic stagnation.

---

9. Lebanon (2019–present) — Banking + Currency Collapse​

Type: Currency crash, banking insolvency
Key Stats:

• Lebanese pound lost ~98% of value
• Inflation over 200% annually
• GDP shrank from $55bn (2018) to $23bn (2021)
• Poverty > 70%
  Outcome: Ongoing severe crisis.

---

10. Sri Lanka (2022) — First Sovereign Default in History​

Type: Forex crisis, energy collapse
Key Stats:

• Foreign reserves fell to $50m
• Inflation hit 70%
• Economy contracted 7.8% in 2022
  Outcome: IMF programme; partial stabilisation.

---

11. Iceland (2008–2010) — Banking System Collapse​

Type: Entire banking sector failed
Key Stats:

• Banking assets = 10× national GDP collapsed
• GDP contracted 10%
• Krona fell ~50%
  Outcome: Capital controls; surprisingly fast recovery.

---

12. Myanmar (2021–present) — Coup-Induced Collapse​

Type: Political collapse + economic freefall
Key Stats:

• GDP fell 18% in 2021 alone
• Currency depreciated 50%
• Inflation over 30%
  Outcome: Ongoing conflict, collapse continues.

---

13. Haiti (multiple periods) — State Failure​

Type: Political instability, economic collapse
Key Stats (recent decade):

• GDP per capita now lower than in the 1970s
• Inflation ~ 50%
• State capacity nearly nonexistent
  Outcome: Chronic instability.

 

[metalblue]

Re motability cars, it’s horses for courses and not one size fits all. Also, it’s not as “ free” as some would think.

I need a Mercedes Sprinter or big VW but for these types of vehicles, Motability want an upfront down payment of £20k+ as well as your full motability element of PiP. I don’t have that kind of money, so have to buy old second hand adapted cars.

As you rightly point out you get a fixed amount for your car (not sure how the insurance part works) but I suspect this is more about the optics of it - i.e. people will question if you can afford to be paying extra to drive a brand new higher end car do you really need help from the tax payer to fund it.

Whatever the rights and wrongs when you’re asking folk to pay more tax it’s sensible politics to head off potential troubles.

 

[metalblue]

No, because it was such an inane question underserving of a response AND/OR a lame attempt at baiting. But nevertheless I will indulge you to show what a daft post it was:

Here’s a clear, data-driven list of countries whose economies collapsed in a severe, systemic way — whether through hyperinflation, state failure, war, or debt defaults. I’ve included key statistics like GDP contractions, inflation levels, currency losses, and unemployment.

This is not exhaustive, but it covers the most widely recognised “economic collapses” in the modern era.

Looking at Greece specifically, they are recovering from their situation with the help of massive IMF bailout. If we go that way, the IMF cannot afford it - our economy is too big for them to save.

---

Major Economic Collapses (with Stats)​

1. Zimbabwe (2007–2009) — Hyperinflation Collapse​

Type: Complete monetary collapse, hyperinflation
Key Stats:

• Hyperinflation peaked at 89.7 sextillion percent (10²¹%) per year (Nov 2008)
• Prices doubled every 24 hours
• GDP fell 17% in 2008
• Central bank issued 100 trillion dollar notes
  Outcome: Abandoned its currency; switched to USD/ZAR.

---

2. Venezuela (2014–present) — Hyperinflation + State Collapse​

Type: Hyperinflation, collapse of oil sector, institutional failure
Key Stats:

• Inflation peaked at 10,000,000% in 2018
• GDP contracted by ~75% between 2014–2022
• Oil production down from 3.5m bpd (1998) to ~700k bpd (2020)
• Poverty rate > 90%
  Outcome: Ongoing crisis; partial dollarisation.

---

3. Argentina (2001–2002) — Sovereign Default + Banking Collapse​

Type: Currency crisis, default, depression
Key Stats:

• Peso lost 75% of value in 2002
• GDP contracted 20% in 4 years
• Unemployment hit 25%
• Sovereign default of $100bn (largest at the time)
  Outcome: Social and political crisis; long recovery.

---

4. Greece (2010–2015) — Debt Crisis​

Type: Sovereign debt collapse, depression
Key Stats:

• GDP fell 25% between 2008–2016
• Unemployment peaked at 27.5%
• Youth unemployment over 60%
• Public debt > 180% of GDP
  Outcome: Bailouts, austerity, long-term stagnation.

---

5. Soviet Union (1990–1992) — Systemic Collapse​

Type: Complete economic + political disintegration
Key Stats:

• GDP contracted 40% in early 1990s (post-collapse)
• Industrial output fell 50%
• Inflation exceeded 2,500% in 1992 (Russia)
  Outcome: End of USSR; transition shock.

---

6. Weimar Germany (1921–1923) — Classical Hyperinflation​

Type: Hyperinflationary collapse
Key Stats:

• Prices doubled every 3.7 days
• Inflation reached 29,500% per month (late 1923)
• 1 USD = 4.2 trillion marks by Nov 1923
  Outcome: Currency replaced by the Rentenmark.

---

7. Yugoslavia (1992–1994) — World’s Worst Hyperinflation​

Type: Hyperinflation + civil war
Key Stats:

• Inflation of 5 × 10¹⁵% per month (Jan 1994)
• Prices doubled every 34 hours
• Currency redenominated 5 times
  Outcome: Currency collapse; country dissolved.

---

8. North Korea (1990s) — Famine + Economic Collapse​

Type: State collapse + famine
Key Stats:

• GDP fell by ~35% between 1990–1998
• Famine deaths: 600,000–2,000,000
• Industrial output collapsed by 50%
  Outcome: Partial recovery later, but chronic stagnation.

---

9. Lebanon (2019–present) — Banking + Currency Collapse​

Type: Currency crash, banking insolvency
Key Stats:

• Lebanese pound lost ~98% of value
• Inflation over 200% annually
• GDP shrank from $55bn (2018) to $23bn (2021)
• Poverty > 70%
  Outcome: Ongoing severe crisis.

---

10. Sri Lanka (2022) — First Sovereign Default in History​

Type: Forex crisis, energy collapse
Key Stats:

• Foreign reserves fell to $50m
• Inflation hit 70%
• Economy contracted 7.8% in 2022
  Outcome: IMF programme; partial stabilisation.

---

11. Iceland (2008–2010) — Banking System Collapse​

Type: Entire banking sector failed
Key Stats:

• Banking assets = 10× national GDP collapsed
• GDP contracted 10%
• Krona fell ~50%
  Outcome: Capital controls; surprisingly fast recovery.

---

12. Myanmar (2021–present) — Coup-Induced Collapse​

Type: Political collapse + economic freefall
Key Stats:

• GDP fell 18% in 2021 alone
• Currency depreciated 50%
• Inflation over 30%
  Outcome: Ongoing conflict, collapse continues.

---

13. Haiti (multiple periods) — State Failure​

Type: Political instability, economic collapse
Key Stats (recent decade):

• GDP per capita now lower than in the 1970s
• Inflation ~ 50%
• State capacity nearly nonexistent
  Outcome: Chronic instability.

Nah, just print more money init. All of them countries bottled it ;)

 

[mosssideblue]

As you rightly point out you get a fixed amount for your car (not sure how the insurance part works) but I suspect this is more about the optics of it - i.e. people will question if you can afford to be paying extra to drive a brand new higher end car do you really need help from the tax payer to fund it.

Whatever the rights and wrongs when you’re asking folk to pay more tax it’s sensible politics to head off potential troubles.

They could scrap the mobility element of PiP and replace it with an appropriate vehicle instead. i.e. If your disability means that you simply need a car to get you from A to B (or be driven from A to B), then a base level car could be provided, or if your needs require a larger and more adapted vehicle, then that could be provided.

Possibly, doing it this way the Gov through economies of scale could negotiate a much better deal for leasing vehicles.

 

[threespires]

If you get a company car and rant about this then ask yourself - if your company car list allows Audi's and BMW's then the lease scheme - because thats what Motability is - cut them from your scheme and you are only allowed cars up to the value of a Corsa. Thats fair? I worked in a place once when the company car was a base model Peugeot 309 two door. When we asked why the director ( who drove a Range Rover ) told us "because they don't do a one door. The politics of envy is not an upward punching thing its a downward punching one

'Premium' cars like BMW and Mercedes cut from Motability scheme

Motability says it will provide vehicles that meet disabled peoples' needs and are safe and affordable.

www.bbc.co.uk

The people getting wrapped round the axle on motobility vehicles are not looking at this creativily enough. If the only cars available on the scheme were high powered sports cars, within 5 years they could probably get the cost of the scheme down to virtually nothing especially if TVR started making cars again.

More seriously, I had always assumed that the increase in cost of motability was a function of the increased number of people accesing the scheme and the increased cost of vehicles and maintenance rather than any great shift in what people are driving? I haven't looked at the numbers but I was surprised it was going to make a significant dent in the costs.