The Green Party

Economically immigrants fill jobs that the resident population cant or will not do (packing and picking at arable farms, cleaning etc). This benefits everybody. Obviously this includes billionaires and I do think that billionaires take much more out of society (and the population ) than they should. But to tackle that you don't change who they exploit (resident population instead of immigrants) you tackle the structural nature of the economy to redistribute their wealth and influence.
To tackle exploitative landlords, you again you change the structure of the system so they cannot exploit both immigrants and the resident population
They also fill jobs that the resident population is not qualified to do, for example 21% of the NHS employees are immigrants

Cultural benefits are so obvious. Exposure to different family structures, exposure to different ideas, exposure to different festivals, exposure to different traditions.

Food is also a thing, don't know what the issue with mentioning food is, please explain?

Oh dear, take a look at the unemployment and underemployment figures, what an utterly bizarre argument to suggest we need an underclass of slave labourer migrants to do the jobs that the existing population deem beneath them and would rather claim benefits instead.

Venture out in the real world and ask the few people who actually ARE looking for permanent full-time work, particularly in entry level and unskilled jobs and they'll tell you how incredibly difficult it is to even get an interview, yet apparently we need hundreds of thousands of immigrants per year "to fill job vacancies"

Ah the old chestnut that "we need 10,000 immigrant NHS workers per year to save the NHS from collapsing"?... Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, we might not need those 10,000 migrant NHS workers per year if we didn't have high hundreds of thousands of potential new users of the NHS arriving in the country per year?

You talk about structural change to the system being needed to tackle poverty pay and the extortionate cost of accommodation... yet its entirely due to mass immigration that those issues exist in the first place, mass immigration is far and away the single biggest factor that has enabled the value of labour to be massively eroded and the demand for and cost of accommodation to be massively inflated.

Your position on cultural benefits seems vague at best, I fail to see how any of those things you've mentioned enhance the country socially or culturally and they're as meaningless and indefinable as the usual nice food argument trotted out by the usual suspects.
 
Oh dear, take a look at the unemployment and underemployment figures, what an utterly bizarre argument to suggest we need an underclass of slave labourer migrants to do the jobs that the existing population deem beneath them and would rather claim benefits instead.

Venture out in the real world and ask the few people who actually ARE looking for permanent full-time work, particularly in entry level and unskilled jobs and they'll tell you how incredibly difficult it is to even get an interview, yet apparently we need hundreds of thousands of immigrants per year "to fill job vacancies"

Ah the old chestnut that "we need 10,000 immigrant NHS workers per year to save the NHS from collapsing"?... Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, we might not need those 10,000 migrant NHS workers per year if we didn't have high hundreds of thousands of potential new users of the NHS arriving in the country per year?

You talk about structural change to the system being needed to tackle poverty pay and the extortionate cost of accommodation... yet its entirely due to mass immigration that those issues exist in the first place, mass immigration is far and away the single biggest factor that has enabled the value of labour to be massively eroded and the demand for and cost of accommodation to be massively inflated.

Your position on cultural benefits seems vague at best, I fail to see how any of those things you've mentioned enhance the country socially or culturally and they're as meaningless and indefinable as the usual nice food argument trotted out by the usual suspects.


Well we cant really discuss this can we.
Your facts do not match my facts. My facts are based on my experience and the information I take in. Yours are based on yours. I think your facts are wrong, you think my facts are wrong.

I can explain why I think your facts are wrong if you are interested, can you explain why mine are wrong?

if you are not willing to discuss that, then there is no point to the discussion, as it just turns into both of us saying, I am right.
 
1) the economic burden and pressure on infrastructure are (and have been for a number of years) unsustainable.
Only because the governments of the last 26 years decided that they wouldn't invest in the infastructure, deciding instead to implement austerity which in effect passes more wealth from the state to the rich. the effect of immigration is negligible compared to that.

2) there are some negative cultural differences such as the grooming gangs for example.
Grooming gangs are not just from the immigrants . There are grooming gangs among the resident population. The only reason that you think its a problem from the immigrant population is because the right wing only highlight the immigrants grooming gangs (Daily Mail, Tommy ten names, Farage
etc)
What economic burden?

You've claimed just a few posts up that mass immigration has been overwhelmingly positive economically.

That economic burden and pressure on services and infrastructure wouldn't exist in the first place if the population hadn't been inflated by at least 10 million via immigration in that 26 year period... so the government wouldn't have needed to find anything like the level of investment required to now tackle those issues which have all been massively exacerbated by the huge population increase.

The grooming gangs are only one small but well publicised aspect of the many ways in which immigrants fail to adhere to the rule of law or abide by conventional UK/Western values.
 
Well we cant really discuss this can we.
Your facts do not match my facts. My facts are based on my experience and the information I take in. Yours are based on yours. I think your facts are wrong, you think my facts are wrong.

I can explain why I think your facts are wrong if you are interested, can you explain why mine are wrong?

if you are not willing to discuss that, then there is no point to the discussion, as it just turns into both of us saying, I am right.
I'm all ears, please do explain why my position is wrong.
 
I'm all ears, please do explain why my position is wrong.

should we start with

"Ah the old chestnut that "we need 10,000 immigrant NHS workers per year to save the NHS from collapsing"?... Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, we might not need those 10,000 migrant NHS workers per year if we didn't have high hundreds of thousands of potential new users of the NHS arriving in the country per year?!"

In 2010 the NHS had the highest approval rating from the population in history.
Because the government had increased spending on it year on year for 13 years the most sustained increase in funding since the beginning of the NHS. The Tory government of the early 1970's had slightly higher increases for a considerably shorter period.
Inflation in health care is as lot higher than general inflation due to increase in treatments because of research.
The most obvious way you can see this is the cost of private healthcare in the UK, which is market driven and provides the same level of care year on year and passes the costs on the the consumers. Costs of this have risen annually by 10%
Therefore to keep pace spending increases have to be a lot higher than general inflation.
The figures are all in the office of national statistics reports (about 50 of them, but you can see a digested version here https://fullfact.org/health/satisfaction-nhs-peaked-2010/)

over the next 15 years (to 2025) the total number of immigrants was 2.2 million. (again ONS figures)
That means there was an increase demand on the NHS of 3.2% due to immigration.
So if we only needed the immigrants workers in the NHS to deal with immigrants we would only see immigrant employment in the NHS at 3.2% and not 21%.

The reason the NHS is struggling is because although the government since 2010 have increased spending by 1 or 2% above general inflation. That does not meet the inflation rate of healthcare. To do that they would have to have increased spending by between 5 and 8% above general inflation.
 
1) the economic burden and pressure on infrastructure are (and have been for a number of years) unsustainable.
Only because the governments of the last 26 years decided that they wouldn't invest in the infastructure, deciding instead to implement austerity which in effect passes more wealth from the state to the rich. the effect of immigration is negligible compared to that.

2) there are some negative cultural differences such as the grooming gangs for example.
Grooming gangs are not just from the immigrants . There are grooming gangs among the resident population. The only reason that you think its a problem from the immigrant population is because the right wing only highlight the immigrants grooming gangs (Daily Mail, Tommy ten names, Farage
etc)
as expected you don't agree but there's really no need to tell me why I think what I think, thank you.
 
as expected you don't agree but there's really no need to tell me why I think what I think, thank you.
Well if we are going to have a discussion I do because we have to know where our different understanding of the facts comes from.
I think yours comes from this, if I am wrong please engage and tell me, where your facts some from
 
2) . There are grooming gangs among the resident population. The only reason that you think its a problem from the immigrant population is because the right wing only highlight the immigrants grooming gangs (Daily Mail, Tommy ten names, Farage
etc)
the reason it’s a problem is because the authorities ignored it, covered it up and even on some occasions aided and abetted it.

the rape gang scandal isn’t because brown people rape in gangs more than whites, because that isn’t true. White British vs ethnic minorities mirror their demographic % for people in the country vs those organising rape gangs, so as a percentage of population white Brits rape just as much, all backgrounds have scum.

The scandal is the cover up and for me, it’s the biggest scandal we’ve had for decades. And again, for me, our focus and anger should be directed at the police, local politicians and anyone else capable of stopping it that didn’t, not the migrants in these areas that didn’t do it.
 
the reason it’s a problem is because the authorities ignored it, covered it up and even on some occasions aided and abetted it.

the rape gang scandal isn’t because brown people rape in gangs more than whites, because that isn’t true. White British vs ethnic minorities mirror their demographic % for people in the country vs those organising rape gangs, so as a percentage of population white Brits rape just as much, all backgrounds have scum.

The scandal is the cover up and for me, it’s the biggest scandal we’ve had for decades. And again, for me, our focus and anger should be directed at the police, local politicians and anyone else capable of stopping it that didn’t, not the migrants in these areas that didn’t do it.

Ok so then issue is with the establishment and not immigrants
so reform the establishment not stop immigrants
 
the reason it’s a problem is because the authorities ignored it, covered it up and even on some occasions aided and abetted it.

the rape gang scandal isn’t because brown people rape in gangs more than whites, because that isn’t true. White British vs ethnic minorities mirror their demographic % for people in the country vs those organising rape gangs, so as a percentage of population white Brits rape just as much, all backgrounds have scum.

The scandal is the cover up and for me, it’s the biggest scandal we’ve had for decades. And again, for me, our focus and anger should be directed at the police, local politicians and anyone else capable of stopping it that didn’t, not the migrants in these areas that didn’t do it.

Anyone in a profession that could have put a stop to it but didnt in the name of race relations are, in my eyes, guilty of the offence of aiding and abetting.
We should be going back through each and every case to find out who turned blind eyes and charge them
 
Well if we are going to have a discussion I do because we have to know where our different understanding of the facts comes from.
I think yours comes from this, if I am wrong please engage and tell me, where your facts some from
I don't want to have a discussion with you thank you. I expressed my opinion and you expressed yours.
 
Anyone in a profession that could have put a stop to it but didnt in the name of race relations are, in my eyes, guilty of the offence of aiding and abetting.
We should be going back through each and every case to find out who turned blind eyes and charge them
Prison time for everyone that let it happen.
 
Can you post a link regarding the prosecutions that have resulted from the "large numbers of far right gangs guilty of child sex abuse"

Thanks in advance.
child sexual exploitation of individuals in the far-right movement.

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon was sentenced to six months in prison after he filmed outside, and shared restricted details of, a CSE case being heard at Leeds Crown Court in 2018, risking undermining the entire legal process.

He defended close friend and ally Richard Price when Price was convicted of making four indecent images of children in 2010, claiming that he had been “stitched up” and calling for his release.

A previous investigation by Hope Not Hate uncovered at least 20 cases of members and supporters of the English Defence League (EDL) being convicted of child sexual exploitation offences. This included Robert Ewing, who murdered schoolgirl Paige Chivers in 2007 after developing an “inappropriate sexual interest” in her.

The failure to deal with sexual abusers in its own midst, however, has not hampered the far-right’s focus on the ‘Muslim grooming gangs’ narrative.

.
convicted paedophile and former member of a banned neo-Nazi terrorist group has been jailed for unsupervised contact with children.

Ryan Fleming, 30, of Horsforth, Leeds, was a regional organiser for National Action, which was outlawed in 2016.
.

.
neo-Nazi paedophile who was locked up 17 years ago after being caught with a stash of nail bombs is facing more jail time after admitting having a gunpowder manual.

White-supremacist Martyn Gilleard, 48, of Armley, Leeds, was jailed in 2008 for 12 years for terrorism offences and having indecent images, and was released in 2023.
.
.
There are plenty more available online, however I am not spending my Sunday doing your research for you.
 
What a very strange thing to say
Why deflect?
Merely highlighting the sheer hypocrisy of the far right.
White men sexually abuse children and not a word, indeed Yaxley Lennon defended his friend when convicted for having indecent images of children.
It is like they don't care about the children, just want to increase racial tension to suit their agenda.
 
Merely highlighting the sheer hypocrisy of the far right.
White men sexually abuse children and not a word, indeed Yaxley Lennon defended his friend when convicted for having indecent images of children.
It is like they don't care about the children, just want to increase racial tension to suit their agenda.
But, as I’ve said before, you’ve given examples of convictions there. The “scandal” part of the Islamic rape gangs scandal is the cover up. Some of them are still free men to this day.

I don’t care what colour your skin is, what religious background you have, what your opinions on football is, you do that to children you go away for good.
 
But, as I’ve said before, you’ve given examples of convictions there. The “scandal” part of the Islamic rape gangs scandal is the cover up. Some of them are still free men to this day.

I don’t care what colour your skin is, what religious background you have, what your opinions on football is, you do that to children you go away for good.
I would favour chemical castration, though the Catholic church covered up peadophile priests for decades and Teresa May as home secretary "lost" the Westminster peadophile ring dossiers but not a word from the far right.
 
child sexual exploitation of individuals in the far-right movement.

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon was sentenced to six months in prison after he filmed outside, and shared restricted details of, a CSE case being heard at Leeds Crown Court in 2018, risking undermining the entire legal process.

He defended close friend and ally Richard Price when Price was convicted of making four indecent images of children in 2010, claiming that he had been “stitched up” and calling for his release.

A previous investigation by Hope Not Hate uncovered at least 20 cases of members and supporters of the English Defence League (EDL) being convicted of child sexual exploitation offences. This included Robert Ewing, who murdered schoolgirl Paige Chivers in 2007 after developing an “inappropriate sexual interest” in her.

The failure to deal with sexual abusers in its own midst, however, has not hampered the far-right’s focus on the ‘Muslim grooming gangs’ narrative.

.
convicted paedophile and former member of a banned neo-Nazi terrorist group has been jailed for unsupervised contact with children.

Ryan Fleming, 30, of Horsforth, Leeds, was a regional organiser for National Action, which was outlawed in 2016.
.

.
neo-Nazi paedophile who was locked up 17 years ago after being caught with a stash of nail bombs is facing more jail time after admitting having a gunpowder manual.

White-supremacist Martyn Gilleard, 48, of Armley, Leeds, was jailed in 2008 for 12 years for terrorism offences and having indecent images, and was released in 2023.
.
.
There are plenty more available online, however I am not spending my Sunday doing your research for you.

So a few individuals, with some offences dating back decades carefully curated by those Fabian Marxists "Hope not Hate"... you're really going to have try harder than that.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top