Keir Starmer

[gordondaviesmoustache]

A U-turn against a U-turner because this U-turner was unhappy with his U-Turns.
Expect more U-turns from these two or other PM supporters who may U-turn from their current position if more U-turns happen.

U-turn if you want to…

 

[metalblue]

Genuine question...is this a fight between two factions of the party? Where some want to trigger a race before (and if) Burnham can join any race?

Yes. Those saying he needs to go now are on the right aka Streeting those saying he needs an orderly exit are soft left aka Burnham or in his absence Miliband / Rayner

 

[mackenzie]

I think quite a few MP's and members voted for a socialist and got a personality free David Cameron instead.

Difficult to tell. I think they chose someone who they thought could win them an election.

 

[metalblue]

Understand the sentiment, but think there is still a (small) body of Labour seats that are still pretty rock solid, plus most people on the left would see Burnham as an improvement on Starmer so that would also have a bearing on some undecideds.

I don’t doubt that mate. It’s finding someone willing to give up that seat for a future seat that won’t be so certain. Clive Lewis who previously offered is far from a Labour safe seat.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I think quite a few MP's and members voted for a socialist and got a personality free David Cameron instead.

Anyone with a majority like that should have been strident from the moment they were driven away from the palace for the first time and used that majority to cement and bolster their authority. He conspicuously failed to do this.

We’ve all worked with or around people who are ostensibly worthy of taking the next step up, but when it is presented to them are actually hopelessly out of their depth. It’s not their fault, but they need to be taken out if their misery.

I feel he simply wasn’t up to the job in the first place, which is certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Only a small percentage of the population could do such a job effectively.

And when I look back he’s been quite unlucky in many respects, but that actually underlines his lack of suitability for the role. Napoleon’s oft repeated statement about lucky generals must also apply to Prime Ministers. He has been an unlucky Prime Minister.

Ultimately, who would want an unlucky PM running the country??

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Genuine question...is this a fight between two factions of the party? Where some want to trigger a race before (and if) Burnham can join any race?

Are there even recognisable political factions in the Labour Party anymore? You knew where you stood in the Kinnock/Militant Tendency days, or during Corbyn's leadership. There was a clear dividing line between the far-left and the more centrist groups. But who knows what the vision of people like Streeting, Rayner or others is.

Seems like they just want to get their snouts in the trough.

 

[west didsblue]

In other words radical reversal of policy pledges during an election must be dealt with a the ballet box.

Ballet box?
Are Wayne Sleep or Darcy Bussell standing?

 

[1961_vintage]

Ultimately, who would want an unlucky PM running the country??

Unlucky in what respect GDM?

And would you say that anyone else that had been in his position would also have suffered the same misfortunes?

Because if that's the case what's the point in replacing him?

 

[hilts]

Difficult to tell. I think they chose someone who they thought could win them an election.

His 'vision' outside of renewing his library card was to sell members on a far bit of Socialism to become leader, he then sold his 'vision' to the country as someone who was all about the economy, safe, prudent. The MP's probably thought it was a ploy for getting elected and then his true socialist views would be implemented and a few labour supporters on here felt the same.
He then proceeded to do a bit of austerity by trying to dick pensioners and the disabled which back fired. At this point I think a few realised he is a legacy politician. His vision is himself, not the first won't be the last.

 

[Don Karleone]

These idiots got everything they wanted and still managed to fuck it up.

Quite funny

 

[Chippy_boy]

Well at least even Brexiteers knew destroying manufacturing would be a price worth paying for freedom.

Come off it Vic, you're better than this.

We were losing our steelmaking capacity etc way before any Brexit vote, as you well know.

 

[metalblue]

Ballet box?
Are Wayne Sleep or Darcy Bussell standing?

Hahaha

 

[hilts]

Ballet box?
Are Wayne Sleep or Darcy Bussell standing?

Look at you waltzing around here taking the piss. Don't try and twist what people mean.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Anyone with a majority like that should have been strident from the moment they were driven away from the palace for the first time and used that majority to cement and bolster their authority. He conspicuously failed to do this.

We’ve all worked with or around people who are ostensibly worthy of taking the next step up, but when it is presented to them are actually hopelessly out of their depth. It’s not their fault, but they need to be taken out if their misery.

I feel he simply wasn’t up to the job in the first place, which is certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Only a small percentage of the population could do such a job effectively.

And when I look back he’s been quite unlucky in many respects, but that actually underlines his lack of suitability for the role. Napoleon’s oft repeated statement about lucky generals must also apply to Prime Ministers. He has been an unlucky Prime Minister.

Ultimately, who would want an unlucky PM running the country??

It's staggering how manifestly unsuitable people get the top job in politics when everyone with knowledge of them knows they're unsuitable, but votes for them anyway, most likely in the hope of feathering their own nest.

The Parliamentary Labour Party knew Gordon Brown wasn't suited to being a leader. They knew Corbyn wasn't. They knew Starmer wasn't. The Tories knew Johnson was an absolute rogue, and that Truss was a complete lunatic. Yet all of them got the leadership, and all bar Corbyn, actually got to run the country.

Then when they've stepped down, they'll say "We knew his faults/was the wrong person." And they almost certainly did know.

Where is their fucking integrity? Why did no one stand up and say "Hang on, he's not fit to lead the party and run the country and you all know that'"?

 

[Chippy_boy]

I don’t think anyone would disagree that Starmer is a decent bloke. Shit at politics but a decent bloke.

I absolutely would disagree. Decent people don't say they will stick up for their staff, and the sack them to save their own skin. For example. Decent people don't bang on about ending sleeze and cronyism and then within minutes of taking office, give a Downing Street pass to your mate, nor accept freebies off him.

Etc etc etc. I think he's a very unpleasant character and far from "a decent bloke".

 

[Chippy_boy]

It's staggering how manifestly unsuitable people get the top job in politics when everyone with knowledge of them knows they're unsuitable, but votes for them anyway, most likely in the hope of feathering their own nest.

The Parliamentary Labour Party knew Gordon Brown wasn't suited to being a leader. They knew Corbyn wasn't. They knew Starmer wasn't. The Tories knew Johnson was an absolute rogue, and that Truss was a complete lunatic. Yet all of them got the leadership, and all bar Corbyn, actually got to run the country.

Then when they've stepped down, they'll say "We knew his faults/was the wrong person." And they almost certainly did know.

Where is their fucking integrity? Why did no one stand up and say "Hang on, he's not fit to lead the party and run the country and you all know that'"?

Michael Gove likes this post!

 

[hilts]

Anyone with a majority like that should have been strident from the moment they were driven away from the palace for the first time and used that majority to cement and bolster their authority. He conspicuously failed to do this.

We’ve all worked with or around people who are ostensibly worthy of taking the next step up, but when it is presented to them are actually hopelessly out of their depth. It’s not their fault, but they need to be taken out if their misery.

I feel he simply wasn’t up to the job in the first place, which is certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Only a small percentage of the population could do such a job effectively.

And when I look back he’s been quite unlucky in many respects, but that actually underlines his lack of suitability for the role. Napoleon’s oft repeated statement about lucky generals must also apply to Prime Ministers. He has been an unlucky Prime Minister.

Ultimately, who would want an unlucky PM running the country??

I think as a Prime Minister after getting a huge majority(grrrr fptp) all you need to do at the beginning is get private feelers on policy then announce them with confidence and stay the course. Do not show weakness and back track because then you're pretty much done. Dont be looking at polls and ratings until much nearer election time.
He has no understanding of a lot of his own MP's so he's got fuck all chance with the public.
He has got himself where he tries to placate the right and the left and gets the support of neither.
His obsession with growth and balancing the books to appear prudent and a safe pair of hands has done him.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Michael Gove likes this post!

Quite. I have a great deal of respect for Fove over that. I was also in a town hall meeting with him when I was a Civil Servant and he came over as a very thoughtful politician, with some real depth.

I think that he just had a Machiavellian streak in him, which diminished what he could have achieved. His officials would run through brick walls for him, because he behaved well towards them and actively sought their views, rather than treating them like something he'd stood in, as people like Patel did.

 

[hilts]

Are there even recognisable political factions in the Labour Party anymore? You knew where you stood in the Kinnock/Militant Tendency days, or during Corbyn's leadership. There was a clear dividing line between the far-left and the more centrist groups. But who knows what the vision of people like Streeting, Rayner or others is.

Seems like they just want to get their snouts in the trough.

There will be plenty of left wingers in the ranks including Rayner. As I said before a few of them just wanted to win the general election, they see those locals and not only were they uncomfortable with his direction now they're worried about their jobs.

 

[mackenzie]

I think as a Prime Minister after getting a huge majority(grrrr fptp) all you need to do at the beginning is get private feelers on policy then announce them with confidence and stay the course. Do not show weakness and back track because then you're pretty much done. Dont be looking at polls and ratings until much nearer election time.
He has no understanding of a lot of his own MP's so he's got fuck all chance with the public.
He has got himself where he tries to placate the right and the left and gets the support of neither.
His obsession with growth and balancing the books to appear prudent and a safe pair of hands has done him.

I don't think it's even just a left or right issue (in any traditional definition of that) these days; society has so many different groups that want someone on their "side" that its almost impossible to deliver.