PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[yerwot?]

Watching the numerous behind-the-scenes videos, the live feeds from the celebrations Sheik Kaldoon came across as utterly relaxed. Definitely not someone with a potential catastrophe looming. I take that as the best indication of a win for MCFC...

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

Stefan and PB disagree on the question of whether the IC's decision is known to the PL and the club but both are agreed that fraud on the scale alleged in the "charges" over the period claimed is such a remote possibility that the PL will be unable to make these charges stick. PB is of the opinion that the commission has exonerated City and this has been known for many months : Stefan is of the opinion that the IC's decision is not known by either party.

Since I am the KFA of all KFAs and seeing as we all know effectively nothing I have had (yet another) go at a piece of idle speculation which tries to synthesise the elements of PB's and Stefan's views. I accord a greater importance to the IFR than is common and you may agree with that or not.

Suppose PB is right and the PL and some clubs (any guesses which?) came out of the hearing very badly indeed. So badly that snior officials at the PL have to go, as do senior executives at these clubs (if some haven't already done so!). The PL is effectively decimated because, rather than City perpetrating fraud for years it is the PL which has been abusing its position for what appears to be its entire existence. Wholesale reconstruction, indeed a new beginning is necessary and the IFR will have to oversee this.

This is explosive stuff and the IC has to be certain that its report is watertight. City would not leak any of this and I suspect the PL would keep quiet and try to save its own skin, even if it (and City) only had strong impressions of the findings. Thus we are still waiting for the IC's report 18 months after the hearing!

Fact or fiction? I like to think its an upgrade on some of the influencers who spout such rubbish about sanctions. I KFA and admit I am groping in the dark, but I believe what both PB and Stefan say, and I respect their opinions, but I make no claims for my own speculation ....

 

[Rammy Blue]

Watching the numerous behind-the-scenes videos, the live feeds from the celebrations Sheik Kaldoon came across as utterly relaxed. Definitely not someone with a potential catastrophe looming. I take that as the best indication of a win for MCFC...

Sheik Kaldoon is a new one on me, lol.

 

[asahartford1]

Sheik Kaldoon is a new one on me, lol.

Haha, a new type of soft signal. Perhaps they could of have made Pep a Sheik-;)

 

[Keith Moon]

Of course we won't know for sure until we get the formal verdict but let's imagine a scenario in the hearing where the Mancini Al-Jazira contract is being discussed.

Apparently Mancini wasn't called as a witness (which might or might not tell us something about the strength of the PL's case). It's up to the PL to make their case, not for us to make ours, but let's say that the PL did produce some evidence indicating that the contract was (in their view) a sham, but we were able to show irrefutably that Mancini (or his representatives) fulfilled the terms of that contract completely. We'd be pretty confident we'd won that argument

Or the Fordham payments, where we could refute the PL charges and show that the payments had been properly declared to UEFA under FFP reporting, and that even if we'd paid them directly, there would have been no impact on PSR/FFP. It might be we'd get a slap on the wrist for slightly underdeclaring expenses possibly. However we also know that Fordham wasn't a deliberate attempt to hide expenses, but to generate revenue in the 2013 financial year. We could also show that UEFA knew about these payments by 2015, but no charges followed. Of course the PL panel would be free to make up it's own mind but, again, the PL would need to make their case on the balance of probabilities. And even that most cautious of commentators, Stefan, doesn't think they'll be able to do this.

So yes, we won't "know the outcome" but we should have a reasonable idea.

What are your thoughts on the allegations relating to PSR?

 

[SWP's back]

We’re of course guilty of non-cooperation, that we pretty much know for certain and will carry a fine.

Why are you so sure of that?

 

[Stoned Rose]

Stefan and PB disagree on the question of whether the IC's decision is known to the PL and the club but both are agreed that fraud on the scale alleged in the "charges" over the period claimed is such a remote possibility that the PL will be unable to make these charges stick. PB is of the opinion that the commission has exonerated City and this has been known for many months : Stefan is of the opinion that the IC's decision is not known by either party.

Since I am the KFA of all KFAs and seeing as we all know effectively nothing I have had (yet another) go at a piece of idle speculation which tries to synthesise the elements of PB's and Stefan's views. I accord a greater importance to the IFR than is common and you may agree with that or not.

Suppose PB is right and the PL and some clubs (any guesses which?) came out of the hearing very badly indeed. So badly that snior officials at the PL have to go, as do senior executives at these clubs (if some haven't already done so!). The PL is effectively decimated because, rather than City perpetrating fraud for years it is the PL which has been abusing its position for what appears to be its entire existence. Wholesale reconstruction, indeed a new beginning is necessary and the IFR will have to oversee this.

This is explosive stuff and the IC has to be certain that its report is watertight. City would not leak any of this and I suspect the PL would keep quiet and try to save its own skin, even if it (and City) only had strong impressions of the findings. Thus we are still waiting for the IC's report 18 months after the hearing!

Fact or fiction? I like to think its an upgrade on some of the influencers who spout such rubbish about sanctions. I KFA and admit I am groping in the dark, but I believe what both PB and Stefan say, and I respect their opinions, but I make no claims for my own speculation ....

Fuck all wrong with a good old grope in the dark.

 

[Bozzie]

Yep, one or more person at UEFA were deliberately leaking details to one of the yank papers I think, so we told them to do one.

The PL changed the rules around the time the 115 came out which gave them carte blanche on demanding all and any documents and it was up to the club to deliver them post haste. The club appear to have had court appearances a few times since, disputing the reach the PL has. They can't claim that is non-cooperation though if we then gave over what we could. From the little we know as fact, I don't think the non-cooperation will actually come up.

No great leap to join the dots between Parry, Gill, Leterne, FSG, the M.E.N, the New York Times and Tariq Panja allegedly.
Can you ever imagine Man U being forced to open their accounts, without any control, for the PL to trawl through at their leisure?

 

[rice10]

Stefan and PB disagree on the question of whether the IC's decision is known to the PL and the club but both are agreed that fraud on the scale alleged in the "charges" over the period claimed is such a remote possibility that the PL will be unable to make these charges stick. PB is of the opinion that the commission has exonerated City and this has been known for many months : Stefan is of the opinion that the IC's decision is not known by either party.

Since I am the KFA of all KFAs and seeing as we all know effectively nothing I have had (yet another) go at a piece of idle speculation which tries to synthesise the elements of PB's and Stefan's views. I accord a greater importance to the IFR than is common and you may agree with that or not.

Suppose PB is right and the PL and some clubs (any guesses which?) came out of the hearing very badly indeed. So badly that snior officials at the PL have to go, as do senior executives at these clubs (if some haven't already done so!). The PL is effectively decimated because, rather than City perpetrating fraud for years it is the PL which has been abusing its position for what appears to be its entire existence. Wholesale reconstruction, indeed a new beginning is necessary and the IFR will have to oversee this.

This is explosive stuff and the IC has to be certain that its report is watertight. City would not leak any of this and I suspect the PL would keep quiet and try to save its own skin, even if it (and City) only had strong impressions of the findings. Thus we are still waiting for the IC's report 18 months after the hearing!

Fact or fiction? I like to think its an upgrade on some of the influencers who spout such rubbish about sanctions. I KFA and admit I am groping in the dark, but I believe what both PB and Stefan say, and I respect their opinions, but I make no claims for my own speculation ....

I too am a KFA and it is basically impossible to piece together what is going on. I flip flop like there is no tomorrow one day I think well if we were bang to rights why is it taking this long they clearly didn’t have a “smoking gun” but then the next day I think if we had irrefutable evidence it wouldn’t have lasted this long and would have been resolved. Therefore I naively assume it is somewhere in the middle with some wins for both sides.

The things I can’t get my head around is if either side has “won” and both parties already know. Surely if the PL have won and they know this they would want the story out there ASAP and likewise if we have won we would want the story out there to stop the relentless bashing of the club from all angles (not that I think it would). And finally PB has been saying that it’s been known that we have won for ages but it’s been agreed to save face etc even if this is true why can’t they just agree to announce city have won but leave out the bits where all these people are gonna lose their jobs and get fired. It doesn’t make sense to me.

However as already admitted I am a KFA and I have not moved in circles anywhere near as high as the top echelons of football. I’ve barely made it out of the bottom step of amateur football. I just find it amazing that individuals city fan or otherwise can be so confident one way or the other with what is happening and reported on.

 

[oakiecokie]

Dear god , Heineken ?????

I`d sooner drink my own piss.

 

[hello]

No great leap to join the dots between Parry, Gill, Leterne, FSG, the M.E.N, the New York Times and Tariq Panja allegedly.
Can you ever imagine Man U being forced to open their accounts, without any control, for the PL to trawl through at their leisure?

They would need a bigger abacus to deal with the debt payments or lack thereof for sure.

 

[oakiecokie]

Me thinks if found guilty we definitely getting most likely a big fine and a two year transfer ban.

Which would probably set us back.

With your name why am I not surprised to read that as negative.

 

[oldius]

I too am a KFA and it is basically impossible to piece together what is going on. I flip flop like there is no tomorrow one day I think well if we were bang to rights why is it taking this long they clearly didn’t have a “smoking gun” but then the next day I think if we had irrefutable evidence it wouldn’t have lasted this long and would have been resolved. Therefore I naively assume it is somewhere in the middle with some wins for both sides.

The things I can’t get my head around is if either side has “won” and both parties already know. Surely if the PL have won and they know this they would want the story out there ASAP and likewise if we have won we would want the story out there to stop the relentless bashing of the club from all angles (not that I think it would). And finally PB has been saying that it’s been known that we have won for ages but it’s been agreed to save face etc even if this is true why can’t they just agree to announce city have won but leave out the bits where all these people are gonna lose their jobs and get fired. It doesn’t make sense to me.

However as already admitted I am a KFA and I have not moved in circles anywhere near as high as the top echelons of football. I’ve barely made it out of the bottom step of amateur football. I just find it amazing that individuals city fan or otherwise can be so confident one way or the other with what is happening and reported on.

It's possibly because there is nothing going on.

When the verdict is 'ready' I am sure that both sides will try to work out their PR.
If the PL has come out of it very badly then it will do us long-term good if we can agree with the PL how we move forward and how the verdict is communicated.
Likewise, if we come out badly, we will look to mitigate any damage to the club, and consequently the PL brand.

Like it or not, it is in our commercial interest to be part of a strong Premier League and not one that is irrevocably damaged by outing 'enemies', whatever goes on privately.

 

[Protein Junkie]

With my tuppence re the Stefan and @Prestwich_Blue difference in POV.
We cannot say who is right and wrong here, not that we need to.
Stefan’s POV seems risk averse whereas Colin is firmly nailed.
I just hope neither get pelters when the decision finally arrives.

 

[oakiecokie]

Can't see this being true.

What would they have done with us if Southampton had never spied?

They are two completely different cases.

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Protein Junkie]

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Is that you drinking your own piss :-)

 

[terraloon]

chelsea had no choice the guardian had already got the full story from the whistle blower who did all the bank transfers in cyprus and dont they have £100 million of the russians money set aside for any fines in the future ?

What the Guardian did was publish details of payments made by companies owned by RA to various individuals. I think we all can pretty much believe that the payments should have been made via Chelsea’s accounts

The new owners reported the matters discovered during DD in 2022 the press reports were published in 2023

Chelsea FC, once owned by Roman Abramovich, could face punishment over secret payments, experts warn - ICIJ

Four leading sports lawyers told The Guardian that transactions uncovered in Cyprus Confidential documents may have broken U.K. league rules.

www.icij.org

 

[Blue Mist]

Fuck all wrong with a good old grope in the dark.

Unless you're in Thailand


Just sayin'

 

[Uwe`s Grandad]

I`d sooner drink my own piss.

 

[The Colonel]

Stefan and PB disagree on the question of whether the IC's decision is known to the PL and the club but both are agreed that fraud on the scale alleged in the "charges" over the period claimed is such a remote possibility that the PL will be unable to make these charges stick. PB is of the opinion that the commission has exonerated City and this has been known for many months : Stefan is of the opinion that the IC's decision is not known by either party.

Since I am the KFA of all KFAs and seeing as we all know effectively nothing I have had (yet another) go at a piece of idle speculation which tries to synthesise the elements of PB's and Stefan's views. I accord a greater importance to the IFR than is common and you may agree with that or not.

Suppose PB is right and the PL and some clubs (any guesses which?) came out of the hearing very badly indeed. So badly that snior officials at the PL have to go, as do senior executives at these clubs (if some haven't already done so!). The PL is effectively decimated because, rather than City perpetrating fraud for years it is the PL which has been abusing its position for what appears to be its entire existence. Wholesale reconstruction, indeed a new beginning is necessary and the IFR will have to oversee this.

This is explosive stuff and the IC has to be certain that its report is watertight. City would not leak any of this and I suspect the PL would keep quiet and try to save its own skin, even if it (and City) only had strong impressions of the findings. Thus we are still waiting for the IC's report 18 months after the hearing!

Fact or fiction? I like to think its an upgrade on some of the influencers who spout such rubbish about sanctions. I KFA and admit I am groping in the dark, but I believe what both PB and Stefan say, and I respect their opinions, but I make no claims for my own speculation ....

I like it, of course. I'm not sure why the 2 of them were arguing though as their views weren't completely mutually exclusive. City may have been given a good steer even if the reports hadn't landed.