EU referendum deal (title edited)

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Both of those people are most likely to live in existing housing and use existing roads, schools, hospitals, etc. Infrastructure can only stretch so far and it's at breaking point now.
you could argue that's down to private companies taking advantage of over engineered victorian production then just patching them up when need and deeming other problems "non essential" until it's too late....
 
you could argue that's down to private companies taking advantage of over engineered victorian production then just patching them up when need and deeming other problems "non essential" until it's too late....

You could if it were only an issue with privatised public services. But it isn't.
 
Both of those people are most likely to live in existing housing and use existing roads, schools, hospitals, etc. Infrastructure can only stretch so far and it's at breaking point now.

So what you're talking about is a misuse of tax? Because the lawyer will be paying more tax than the average man thus paying for his own infrastructure, school, hospital etc.

A report back in 2012 found that migrants had contributed £40b to the economy while only drained £12b away. We are very much in the black thanks to migrants.

Refugees are totally different as largely they are without work. However my human compassion comes into play here and trumps any worries over 'infrastructure'.

Maybe if the corporations paid their fair share of tax institutes like the NHS wouldn't be so stretched but then that's exactly what the Tories want.
 
So what you're talking about is a misuse of tax? Because the lawyer will be paying more tax than the average man thus paying for his own infrastructure, school, hospital etc.

A report back in 2012 found that migrants had contributed £40b to the economy while only drained £12b away. We are very much in the black thanks to migrants.

Refugees are totally different as largely they are without work. However my human compassion comes into play here and trumps any worries over 'infrastructure'.

Maybe if the corporations paid their fair share of tax institutes like the NHS wouldn't be so stretched but then that's exactly what the Tories want.

The lawyer will, but will the average migrant?

Could you link me to that report? I'm wary that some of the elite could skew results. A Sheikh buying a place in Kensington and buying himself a Ferrari would instantly drop a lifetime's worth of average person tax in stamp duty and VAT.

I agree that refugees are different but infrastructure remains important. If housing them means Brits are left homeless, I don't think it's beneficial.
 
The lawyer will, but will the average migrant?

Could you link me to that report? I'm wary that some of the elite could skew results. A Sheikh buying a place in Kensington and buying himself a Ferrari would instantly drop a lifetime's worth of average person tax in stamp duty and VAT.

I agree that refugees are different but infrastructure remains important. If housing them means Brits are left homeless, I don't think it's beneficial.

I'll have a look for it now mate. However I don't think it calculated stamp duty and VAT, it was simply on salary tax.

The only Brits being made homeless are for gentrification and land redevelopment as far as I know.
 
The lawyer will, but will the average migrant?

Could you link me to that report? I'm wary that some of the elite could skew results. A Sheikh buying a place in Kensington and buying himself a Ferrari would instantly drop a lifetime's worth of average person tax in stamp duty and VAT.

I agree that refugees are different but infrastructure remains important. If housing them means Brits are left homeless, I don't think it's beneficial.

This is the article. It's banked us £25b, not 40, from EU migrants since 2000.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/05/migration-target-useless-experts
 
This is the article. It's banked us £25b, not 40, from EU migrants since 2000.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/05/migration-target-useless-experts

From what I can tell, that's simply saying income from taxing migrants is greater than the sum of benefits given to migrants. It goes on to validate the point it is making by showing migrants to be more valuable (in terms of net tax income per capita) than the native population. I don't dispute that, but it isn't the point I'm making - I'm talking about the cost that total net migration has on all infrastructure, not just benefits.

Here is the graph of migration to and from the UK by year:

_85201805_net_migration_624.png


It wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that at the current levels and rate of growth, we should expect net immigration of 350k this year.To accommodate that without impairing current services, we would need to build a city the size of Leicester. And carry on doing that every year that migration is at this level. Where would you put this year's Leicester?

Average UK household size is 2.3 people, so we would need to build over 150k houses. Using Leicester as a guide, they would also need 3 general hospitals, around 17 secondary and 75 primary state schools, around 15 doctors surgeries, a train station and more. Not to mention the staff that all of them would require.

The alternative is to bung them into existing houses/services and you see the facilities stretched to breaking point like we have now.

Please note, I'm not anti-migration. Half of the team I work in are from all over the world. I'm just against immigration where we don't need it. Another factor that your link didn't consider was immigrants undercutting native workers and leaving them unemployed. I don't think it's wrong that people have a standard of living threshold that doesn't force them into living 7 or 8 in a house with several sharing bedrooms.

Nor is immigration by any means the only reason why I'm against the EU. Nobody has ever voted for anything about the EU - our membership, those in charge, what it's meant for, its budget, etc. - and I can't abide such a bloated undemocratic drain. TTIP's farcical as well.
 
There is lots of low demand empty housing. Don't pretend for one minute that homelessness is due to shortage of housing.
 
From what I can tell, that's simply saying income from taxing migrants is greater than the sum of benefits given to migrants. It goes on to validate the point it is making by showing migrants to be more valuable (in terms of net tax income per capita) than the native population. I don't dispute that, but it isn't the point I'm making - I'm talking about the cost that total net migration has on all infrastructure, not just benefits.

Here is the graph of migration to and from the UK by year:

_85201805_net_migration_624.png


It wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that at the current levels and rate of growth, we should expect net immigration of 350k this year.To accommodate that without impairing current services, we would need to build a city the size of Leicester. And carry on doing that every year that migration is at this level. Where would you put this year's Leicester?

Average UK household size is 2.3 people, so we would need to build over 150k houses. Using Leicester as a guide, they would also need 3 general hospitals, around 17 secondary and 75 primary state schools, around 15 doctors surgeries, a train station and more. Not to mention the staff that all of them would require.

The alternative is to bung them into existing houses/services and you see the facilities stretched to breaking point like we have now.

Please note, I'm not anti-migration. Half of the team I work in are from all over the world. I'm just against immigration where we don't need it. Another factor that your link didn't consider was immigrants undercutting native workers and leaving them unemployed. I don't think it's wrong that people have a standard of living threshold that doesn't force them into living 7 or 8 in a house with several sharing bedrooms.

Nor is immigration by any means the only reason why I'm against the EU. Nobody has ever voted for anything about the EU - our membership, those in charge, what it's meant for, its budget, etc. - and I can't abide such a bloated undemocratic drain. TTIP's farcical as well.

Great post but to save time

Racist
Brits on the costa del sol
Iraq
Nhs will crumble
Multiculterism
Little englander
Farage love child
Daily mail
Sweden
 
Unrestricted immigration is not as favourable as controlled immigration, this is a fact, rather than constantly arguing about the merits of immigration as a whole the pro euro group should concern themselves with convincing the people why the benefits of staying n outweigh this obvious negative
 
If it's not then that's the government's fault on both counts.

Not necessarily. Jobs that were previously location specific (like the mines) have become more obsolete. The government can't move all of the houses from the mining towns to the technological centres along the M4 can they? Nor is there any point in the government keeping them tenable if nobody is going to choose to live in them.
 
Not necessarily. Jobs that were previously location specific (like the mines) have become more obsolete. The government can't move all of the houses from the mining towns to the technological centres along the M4 can they? Nor is there any point in the government keeping them tenable if nobody is going to choose to live in them.

No but they could invest in the mining centres to create employment. In case you missed it, it's their job to manage the country.
 
No but they could invest in the mining centres to create employment. In case you missed it, it's their job to manage the country.

But the only reason the mining centre was there in the first place was the mine. Without the mine consideration, there may be far more preferable places to live. Why not invest in those places, building housing, rather than investing in business in a place nobody really wants to live or work in?

There's no issue until now when we're desperate for housing and people point at these derelict buildings near no places of employment and say "there's no housing shortage".
 
But the only reason the mining centre was there in the first place was the mine. Without the mine consideration, there may be far more preferable places to live. Why not invest in those places, building housing, rather than investing in business in a place nobody really wants to live or work in?

There's no issue until now when we're desperate for housing and people point at these derelict buildings near no places of employment and say "there's no housing shortage".

You're missing the point. It's their job to manage the country and its resources. They control social funding and the planning authorities, they put the infrastructure in place for businesses to create employment. If the country is full of houses with no employment nearby and jobs with no housing nearby, it's their mess.
 
You're missing the point. It's their job to manage the country and its resources. They control social funding and the planning authorities, they put the infrastructure in place for businesses to create employment. If the country is full of houses with no employment nearby and jobs with no housing nearby, it's their mess.

You're also missing the point. These houses being empty didn't matter. They've been empty for getting on for 30 years and it's only now, with the population soaring due to immigration, that they are being touted by people as potential living spaces, which they aren't any more.
 
You're also missing the point. These houses being empty didn't matter. They've been empty for getting on for 30 years and it's only now, with the population soaring due to immigration, that they are being touted by people as potential living spaces, which they aren't any more.

Great. Still doesn't excuse the government's responsibility for housing shortages in populated areas.
 

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