Making a Murderer

[Manchester33]

Are you for real? Evidence showed Teresa never went near the bedroom, no dna, no blood, no sweat, no fingerprints absolute jack shit.

The way that c*nt Kratz in that slow high pitched overdramatic irritating voice in front of the whole world told them about her being sexually abused in the bedroom and brutally murdered, then later they admit she wasn't killed in there is a fucking disgrace and right away at that point the whole case should have been shut down.

Nothing will happen here with this case, for the sake of the whole town and the whole of America KNOWING the police/sherrifs are bent as fuck instead of guessing they are they will just let two lives waste away because it's not worth the outrage it would cause.

Yes, I am for real. Just read that article I posted above and re-think it.

The fact is this, Avery killed her. We don't know exactly how, but he did.

Think for a moment the amount of effort and risk that would be involved for police to frame Avery. Do you genuinely think they would have gone to those lengths and risked their lives to do all this? Come on it's lunacy. Everyone just gets enraged because the documentary plays some tense music and interviews some passionate conspiracy theorists.

 

[CityStu]

Yes, I am for real. Just read that article I posted above and re-think it.

The fact is this, Avery killed her. We don't know exactly how, but he did.

Think for a moment the amount of effort and risk that would be involved for police to frame Avery. Do you genuinely think they would have gone to those lengths and risked their lives to do all this? Come on it's lunacy. Everyone just gets enraged because the documentary plays some tense music and interviews some passionate conspiracy theorists.

If they hadn't, they'd be personally liable for the millions of dollars he wanted to being wrongly locked up for rape. That's a pretty big incentive.

 

[Phil1]

I suppose it's all impossible to explain completely. No one knows for 100% who killed her other than the people who did.

My gripe about the series is that they depict it as this huge mis-carriage of justice, when in reality, Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey are the only suspects in the case.

Read the articles I posted above, they're really interesting.

They were the only suspects because the police didn't follow up on any other leads. The boyfriend and room mate weren't even asked for alibis for the night in question. The police were after one man from the off.

 

[geoff clipp]

That isnt evidence he committed any crime, it is a theory.

I'm not saying they conclusively prove he participated in the crime, i'm just offering them up as additional evidence outside of the confession which you asked about. Brendan's mother told the police that he had stained his jeans with bleach whist helping his uncle to clean the garage floor on 31st October. I personally don't know if I believe if the garage was definitely a scene of the crime, but the jeans are definitely additional evidence that put Brendan at the alleged crime scene on the day, helping to clean it up with bleach. I don't think they ended up playing a huge part in the trial, but they are definitely something extra on top of the confession.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

For ease of reference. Essential reading for those interested

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-1-14260554/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-2-14260621/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-3-14264099/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-4-14264657/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-5-14267902/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-6-14269121/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-7-14273518/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-8-14277487/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-9-14278246/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-10-14279934/

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

We all know you read that and didnt understand it, dont come on here looking for answers ;-p

Mate, genuinely, this thread is full of fruitcakes, I'd section 90% on the grounds of being thick, nothing to do with mental illness (:

Joking aside, I tend to concur with your Avery conclusions, however, this coercion narrative regarding Brendan is becoming Chinese whispers.... People need to read the transcripts not conclude from the show ffs... His functioning cognitive ability is estimated at 11, can an 11 year old be coerced? Absolutely.. Is an 11 year able to provide facts of his own free will? Absolutely... the letter of the law makes this admissible, however, was he there and involved????

 

[Super Joey Hart]

Yes, I am for real. Just read that article I posted above and re-think it.

The fact is this, Avery killed her. We don't know exactly how, but he did.

Think for a moment the amount of effort and risk that would be involved for police to frame Avery. Do you genuinely think they would have gone to those lengths and risked their lives to do all this? Come on it's lunacy. Everyone just gets enraged because the documentary plays some tense music and interviews some passionate conspiracy theorists.

They had everything to lose it was do or die for them because if the whole department would have been found guilty of setting him up they are finished, if you can't see that they are bent as fuck then your either very naive or lying.

Just look at their faces when in court that lenk just looks like a guilty child being asked if they took the last chocolate bar without asking and saying they hadn't.

Why was Dassey interviewed alone? Why was no one present when they had him drawing pictures of a girl being raped in a room she never stepped foot in? They bullied a severely special needs kid into giving a confession to send down a man that they couldn't afford to let live on the outside because of the legal case.

My heart broke inside when he asked if he would be out in time for wrestlemania they took away his life for their own agenda and it's as simple as that.

There is too much doubt around the planting/tampering of evidence to say he did it for sure but that was never going to stop them, jurors have since come out saying they was basically threatened to find him guilty and also there were family members in that jury of people who was in the manitowoc sherrifs department who was the aggresors in making the vulnerable jurors change their mind, it was heavily in favour of not guilty until they got to work.

 

[mcfc1981]

crimefeed.com/2016/01/fbi-cold-case-investigator-claims-serial-killer-edward-wayne-edwards-killer-teresa-halbach-framed-steven-avery/

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Mate, genuinely, this thread is full of fruitcakes, I'd section 90% on the grounds of being thick, nothing to do with mental illness (:

Joking aside, I tend to concur with your Avery conclusions, however, this coercion narrative regarding Brendan is becoming Chinese whispers.... People need to read the transcripts not conclude from the show ffs... His functioning cognitive ability is estimated at 11, can an 11 year old be coerced? Absolutely.. Is an 11 year able to provide facts of his own free will? Absolutely... the letter of the law makes this admissible, however, was he there and involved????

The fruitcakes make you feel at home though.

Its a good piece of film making, and unless you read further it would be very easy to believe Avery was innocent, its no WM3 or CP5 travesty of justice though.

Reasonable doubt is far more prevalent in Brendan's case. The transcripts still dont cover everything that was said to him, as with many other cases what was said before the camera was switched on isnt recored, he was clearly confused the camera shows that in a way the transcripts dont, he thought he was going back to school, in addition to saying he was confused, he also contradicted himself so how can anything he said be taken as true? Its not up to him to prove he wasnt involved, it is up to the state to prove he was, if you question the confession, you have to question the verdict IMO. He looked like a wrong un, was from a family of wrong uns and I think in the jury's minds there was as much guilt by association as there was in the WM3 and CP5 cases.

 

[Blue Maverick]

So according to the prosecution
She was tied to a bed, raped, stabbed, throat slit, then taken out, no blood or DNA found in the house at all. Then take her to the garage and shot, again no blood anywhere, they then drive her to a pond, but can't dump her so then drive her to a quarry and burn her there, transport her back to the Averys in a barrel put her in a pit and burn her more.
These two then clean the garage and trailer top to bottom like forensic experts, but decide to then hide her car on the plot rather than taking it to the crusher which they have on site and disposing of it, failing to clean the car of any blood stains which can be clearly seen.
Forgetting aside the Brendan confessions, I cannot believe these two are capable of doing the cleanup side, yes a bullet was found but her DNA could have been put in it, the key been found!!! That place had been turned upside down several times before Lensk went in and he was not been watched all the time as one of the police officers who was there with him at the time stated.
I still believe she was killed by the brother in law and nephew who said he was going hunting.

 

[M18CTID]

They only showed part of his interview on MaM. Read his full interview. He's incredibly descriptive, from this they know he is lying to them later on. He is also given the chance to have a lawyer present twice which he refuses twice.

Earlier in his interview he tells them about what Avery said to him, in detail. What Teresa was saying, whilst tied to the bed, in detail. They weren't even being to pushy with him. They seemed quite nice compared to most interrogators investigating a murder case.

I'm certain someone with an IQ as low as his couldn't have come up with this much false information, and the fact that it matches up to physical evidence they found speaks volumes.

I'll have a look when I get chance mate. To be honest, I'm not 100% convinced of their innocence and I accept that the documentary was loaded in favour of the defendants but one thing you can't get away from is that none of it was reconstructed - it was all real-life footage that can't be faked and much of that footage paints the prosecution in a shockingly bad light.

 

[TCIB]

Remember America has a lot of killers running around, if one wanted to have the finger point elsewhere it would not be hard, i reckon i could do it right now on the fly/as i went along and stitch him up. Not saying this did happen but it is perfectly plausible.
Huge open car wreck yard, famous from earlier cases that do show he was a bit of a wrongun.

There are many nuances in this case that make it all to dodgy. maybe he did do it but my christ the LEA fucked it royal and gave massive reason to believe this is a serious cover up. I read the full transcripts of Dasey's "confession" no way should that be admissible as evidence, no way.

If this case had been tested in another state i feel he would have been found not guilty. I would have some crims hung drawn and quartered so i am no left wing type.
Just using reason and logic and following the US law mandate you can't find him guilty of that exact crime. There is far to much reasonable doubt imo.

Personally i would see him shot dead for abusing his younger family but it is not my choice.

 

[M18CTID]

I place emphasis on for this reason. People make an issue of what he said to the investigators, but as any barrister will tell you its what they say in court in front of a jury that matters. That is where people judge and decide. And his evidence there was nonsense and a sure indication of guilt. And in any case, I do not agree that anything he said was in any way coerced. It was not.

Oh it was. Anyone can see that it was. Putting ideas in his head and then trying to get him to confess to his mum in that phone call just to make sure. Only he didn't confess - he came across as someone that had been got at and was just saying things because they promised him they'd let him go. They even fucked up by trying to get him to say who shot her and had to just come out with it eventually to egg him on.

I'm not surprised his evidence in court was nonsense - they fucked with his head so much that it was scrambled beyond all recognition. This is someone who didn't even know the meaning of the word inconsistent. How he can be considered a credible witness is utterly beyond me.

 

[TCIB]

Also that Mav yeah, i cut my finger the other day and the weird dodgy places drips of blood were found later made me "wtf" a bit.
No way on this earth could he clean up all dna evidence that well then make such fundamental errors they would have us believe he made, key, dna on bonnet latch etc.

 

[M18CTID]

For ease of reference. Essential reading for those interested

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-1-14260554/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-2-14260621/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-3-14264099/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-4-14264657/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-5-14267902/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-6-14269121/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-7-14273518/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-8-14277487/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...7717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-9-14278246/

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/c...717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-10-14279934/

I got as far as the third one and while there are good points, pretty much all of them can be easily debunked and they are debunked by people in the comments section. It makes me laugh how so much is made of him answering the door to Theresa Halbach wearing "only a towel". So what - it's his house and does that automatically make him a murderer? Not only that, how much evidence is there that Theresa never wanted to go up to his property again? After all, she went there of her own accord on October 31st 2005 so she can't have been that freaked out by him.

One inescapable fact is that this was never a fair trial in a million years.

 

[mcfc1981]

what was the big deal about him hiding his number??

 

[Manchester33]

what was the big deal about him hiding his number??

Well think about it. Why would he hide his number if he had honest intentions? There was a record of him harassing her in the past, her colleagues said she used to get phone calls from him mithering her.

 

[geoff clipp]

Well think about it. Why would he hide his number if he had honest intentions? There was a record of him harassing her in the past, her colleagues said she used to get phone calls from him mithering her.

And then the final call he makes to her, the one that kind of sets him up with an alibi, he suddenly doesn't withhold his number. It doesn't look great.

It's weird how in the documentary they allude to there being a mystery stalker as though to divert attention off Avery, but when you look into everything else later, it sounds mostly likely that the person behind the calls they're talking about is Avery himself.

I admit, none of this really proves he did anything and it doesn't mean i could safely find him guilty if i were on the jury, but it's definitely a contributing factor as to why I think he's the one that did it.

 

[mcfc1981]

the meeting had already been set up......what was he getting out of calling her on the day and withholding his number??

 

[the originalkippaxman]

Good documentary and well worth the watch. Question I kept asking myself is why did he not take the stand to defend himself. Why were they trying to rely on rebuffing the prosecutions evidence as there only angle. I am sure if he had got onto the stand he would have been better to explain some of the holes that were so evident in the prosecution. Only thing I could surmise is that he was hiding something that he knew.

Also the Brother of the victim came across as one dodgy fucker seemed to know she was dead before they found the body.