EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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Len Rum said:
Surprised that the outters aren't making more of this TTIP business.
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I am, but mostly by making fun of Continuity Corbyn supporters who thought he represented "change". I don't think even the most vociferous left wing Labour supporter can deny now that he was the business as usual choice, just as all the other Labour leadership candidates were.
 
If nothing else will sway you then forget all the issues, they dont matter, its a simple enough choice if you remember two things.

The EU is totally corrupt,
The EU will stop at nothing to further their agenda.

They have, and will continue to lie, cheat, change the rules, invent new ones, do whatever it takes without a thought or a fuck given to you and yours to get their way.


Now do you really want to be in bed with these c*nts ?
 
SWP's back said:
Your countrymen can though.

And the House of Lords does fuck all.
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1. That's absolutely irrelevant if I don't agree with them all. Go back and look at the point I was responding to.

2. Absolute nonsense. The government has been defeated 20-odd times in the unelected House of Lords since it was voted in in May. It's also a huge component in the day to day running of parliament and if an equivalent existed in the EU then it would rightly be used as a massive stick to beat it with.

There's a genuine debate to be had about the democratic deficit in the EU, and in particular around the Commission, and although I'd rather stay in I'd like to see that addressed. Problem is that all of these people raising it now have absolutely no credibility on the issue because whenever we try to address democratic issues domestically they're not interested in the slightest. In 20 years time you'll have Lord Duncan Smith and Baroness Patel sat in the lords with absolutely no mandate whatsoever making the same points about the EU.
 
gazmedina said:
1. That's absolutely irrelevant if I don't agree with them all. Go back and look at the point I was responding to.

2. Absolute nonsense. The government has been defeated 20-odd times in the unelected House of Lords since it was voted in in May. It's also a huge component in the day to day running of parliament and if an equivalent existed in the EU then it would rightly be used as a massive stick to beat it with.

There's a genuine debate to be had about the democratic deficit in the EU, and in particular around the Commission, and although I'd rather stay in I'd like to see that addressed. Problem is that all of these people raising it now have absolutely no credibility on the issue because whenever we try to address democratic issues domestically they're not interested in the slightest. In 20 years time you'll have Lord Duncan Smith and Baroness Patel sat in the lords with absolutely no mandate whatsoever making the same points about the EU.
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1. It's totally relevant. Your peers in the UK are more likely to vote in a party that represents the country you live in. You and your peers have no say in the majority make up of the EU Parliament.

2. Any government can defeat the lords using the Parliament Act. The U.K. Has no such power to force anything through in the EU.
 
Aah, the generals have spoken! We are gonna be royally fucked by the Russians and if there's owt left ISIS are gonna finish us off! If we leave.

I just wonder how big a chainsaw Jean-Clueless Juncker will need to saw all the way down the middle of the North Sea so that we float away, leave Europe behind and tag on to South America or Africa.

99.9% of both sides of this 'debate' belongs to the processes of a sewage farm. It's 24ct shit!
 
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SWP's back said:
1. It's totally relevant. Your peers in the UK are more likely to vote in a party that represents the country you live in.
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Really, when was the last time the UK government had over 50% of the publics vote? What % of the electorate voted for the current Conservative government?

Still representative of what the people want?
 
Monkfish said:
Really, when was the last time the UK government had over 50% of the publics vote? What % of the electorate voted for the current Conservative government?

Still representative of what the people want?
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So you're saying a government is only valid if they have over 50% share of the vote? More people voted for the Conservatives than any other party. That's our system, it represents what most people wanted, but usually not the majority. We could go PR and have more ConDem type governments if you prefer. Personally I prefer the current system as if, or more like when, we get a good opposition, it works well.
 
willy eckerslike said:
So you're saying a government is only valid if they have over 50% share of the vote? More people voted for the Conservatives than any other party. That's our system, it represents what most people wanted, but usually not the majority. We could go PR and have more ConDem type governments if you prefer. Personally I prefer the current system as if, or more like when, we get a good opposition, it works well.
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Nope, just saying its not representative of what the people wanted, nothing more. And as for the line 'what most people wanted, but usually not the majority' ...!?

Personally I think our electoral system has not served this country well, but of course I have no idea what the last hundred or so years would have been like without a first past the post system. If your going to have democracy you might as well do it right and have peoples votes count, at the moment they dont
 
The whole idea of a referendum is flawed.
Asking people to vote on something they know very little about seems ridiculous too me. Sure, you may know all about the Shengen agreement, or immigration from Europe or the ECHR, but the complex nature of myriad facets of the union are immpossible for the average person to fathom. Simply bring up the vote in any pub and there will be un-informed bollox spouted before you can say 'European arrest warrant'.
Like the general election, voters will decide based on the guff they read in their paper of choice. A newspaper that will already have it's own agenda, and present their 'facts' accordingly.
Take the headline that claims we send £350m a week to the union, do you think that's true, and if so where did the figure come from in the first place?
 
Monkfish said:
Nope, just saying its not representative of what the people wanted, nothing more. And as for the line 'what most people wanted, but usually not the majority' ...!?

Personally I think our electoral system has not served this country well, but of course I have no idea what the last hundred or so years would have been like without a first past the post system. If your going to have democracy you might as well do it right and have peoples votes count, at the moment they dont
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In a popularity contest, the person with the most votes is the winner. What you're saying is that person isn't the most popular because you're counting the number of people who didn't vote for them irrespective of who that set of people voted for. It's how you view it. Most people voted for the winner, but it doesn't have to be the majority of the people who cast a vote.
 
Monkfish said:
Really, when was the last time the UK government had over 50% of the publics vote? What % of the electorate voted for the current Conservative government?

Still representative of what the people want?
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A lot better than a federalist Europe at any rate. The lesser of two evils.
 
willy eckerslike said:
In a popularity contest, the person with the most votes is the winner. What you're saying is that person isn't the most popular because you're counting the number of people who didn't vote for them irrespective of who that set of people voted for. It's how you view it. Most people voted for the winner, but it doesn't have to be the majority of the people who cast a vote.
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Majority meaning absolute majority. I should have qualified that.
 
TTIP has always been the problem with staying in the EU for me since I read about it. It's a disgrace. There's no guarantee that the UK won't try to sign up to TTIP outside of the EU though. In fact you can almost guarantee that either a Tory or Labour government would still want to do it being as beholden to big business interests as they both are, but it would take time to draw up the agreements and by then hopefully it would be more well known about and will hopefully mean we can resist it.
 
stonerblue said:
Like the general election, voters will decide based on the guff they read in their paper of choice. A newspaper that will already have it's own agenda, and present their 'facts' accordingly.
Take the headline that claims we send £350m a week to the union, do you think that's true, and if so where did the figure come from in the first place?
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Doubt it but it depends what it means.

All EU countries contribute to the EU budget on the basis of various factors, such as GDP. Us and Germany contribute about £14bn each per annum. We get a rebate however, negotiated when Thatcher was PM and that comes to about £4bn. So our net contribution to the EU is about £10bn per annum I think. But then we get some money back in grants for various development projects so our actual net contribution is probably around £4bn. That works out at around £350m per month, not per week.
 
urmston said:
You can always abstain. Voting isn't compulsory so your ignorance of the subject needn't be a problem.
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You wanna fill me in on common agricultural policy, eu corporation tax rules, import/export restrictions, local authority grants from europe, european trade agreements, international arrest warrants and, most pertinently, how much the UK gives to the European fund and what we get back?
I'm all ears.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Doubt it but it depends what it means.

All EU countries contribute to the EU budget on the basis of various factors, such as GDP. Us and Germany contribute about £14bn each per annum. We get a rebate however, negotiated when Thatcher was PM and that comes to about £4bn. So our net contribution to the EU is about £10bn per annum I think. But then we get some money back in grants for various development projects so our actual net contribution is probably around £4bn. That works out at around £350m per month, not per week.
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You see, even an intelligent bloke like you hasn't got a clue (as does nobody else) what the figures are, yet they're splashed all over the red-tops as if gospel. When we the voter can't even get straight answers to what seems a simple question then how can we make an informed decision?
 
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