Do Liverpool have a better system?

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Scaring Europe to Death

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Whilst studying Liverpool’s criteria for their game in Dortmund (based solely on attendance at certain european games over the last three seasons) I began to wonder how many clubs adopt the same system as ours, and which is the fairest?

To be honest, I haven’t a clue, but let’s not kid ourselves that Liverpool and United don’t have bigger issues than us, when it comes to demand exceeding supply for away games.

As far as I’m aware, we’ve only had a major problem domestically, with the games at Bournemouth and the Swamp, This might have been different if the Anfield game hadn't have arrived just after Wembley, or if Burnley get promoted, but as many posters have suggested, there’s been a number of away games this season, when our allocation has either gone down to General Sale, or simply not sold out.

Personally, I prefer the european away games, but having attended 73 of the last 76, this can often cause problems with my holiday entitlement.

In 2015, I travelled to Barcelona, Stuttgart, Monchengladbach, Sevilla, and Juventus. However, we also had midweek away games at Palace and West Brom etc, so once I allow for holidays that don’t involve a sky blue shirt, I’m usually struggling to make any Autumn domestic away games, particularly the League Cup at Sunderland,(and Leicester in 2013)


Talking of the League Cup, I’m sure I’m not the only supporter who laughs when the attendance always appears to be at least 5,000 less than the published figure. thanks mainly to supporters in the Cup Scheme not attending the game,even though, their bank accounts have been debited £15. Is that classed as “points whoring”?


So, in theory, a Platinum Seasoncard holder in the Cup Scheme could have gone to Wembley in March despite not attending against Sunderland, Palace, Hull, and Everton. In contrast a Gold Seasoncard holder, who wasn’t in the Cup Scheme, could have attended every game, but missed out on the Final.


Is that fair? Perhaps it is, and there’s no better way of getting bums on seats and guaranteeing a decent crowd. However, some people can’t judge in August, just how much money they’ll have available in November.

Obviously, the new ticket collection system has opened a can of worms, but I’m not convinced that hundred of City fans are deliberately buying tickets on a regular basis, with no intention of going to the game whatsoever. Perhaps occasionally to help a friend, but what’s the point, when the friend could easily have bought the ticket and boosted his/her own points tally?


Far more likely is the probability that hundreds of our supporters, including many who travel to all the european away games, are using a Seasoncard that strictly speaking, doesn’t belong to them.

As I stated on another thread, United once declared an Armistice, after estimating that they had 1800 deceased Season Ticket holders, apparently still attending games.

I’m sure that City have the same problem, and just as likely, we've probably got elderly supporters who can’t be bothered with the hassle of away games anymore, so have lent their seasoncard to a family/friend. I know people who share a seasoncard, and we’ve probably got fans who have experienced a change in personal circumstance. but don’t want to fall down the pecking order.

It’s not as though anybody is going to ring the Ticket Office, and declare their loyalty points to be null and void.

Which brings me full circle to the Liverpool criteria for their attractive game in Dortmund, for which they’ve been allocated 3416 tickets, costing £29.

Forget loyalty points, Cup Schemes, or Platinum membership.
The first priority are those people who can prove that they attended all of the following games listed, (some more attractive than others). It then goes down to six games, and so on.

Manchester United (17.03.16), FC Augsburg (18.02.16), FC Sion (10.12.15), Rubin Kazan (05.11.15), Bordeaux (17.09.15), Besiktas (26.02.15), Ludogorets (26.11.14), Real Madrid (04.11.14) and Basel (01.10.14).

Now, I’m not sure how they prove attendance, but equally, apart from a tout, I can’t imagine anybody qualifying for a ticket for the Swamp, and then immediately selling it to somebody else.

Again, I’m not suggesting that our system is better or worse, but just imagine City adopting the same system, and basing our criteria for PSG, purely on previous european away games, deliberately choosing some fixtures that were over subscribed,(Barca, Madrid, Sevilla),and others which didn’t sell out, (Roma, Juventus, Napoli)

If our european games were based on a different criteria to the Premier League, then nobody would jump the queue for Barca or Sevilla, simply by buying tickets for Premier League games that they weren’t attending.

Similarly, City could change their domestic criteria so that points for League Cup games were separated from FA Cup games etc.

For example, if City reached the FA Cup Quarter Finals next season, and were drawn away to Luton, or Walsall, then we might only be given 1500 tickets. What fairer way to prioritise the allocation, than by offering the first bite of the cherry to those fans who travelled to Stamford Bridge this season?

It wouldn’t resolve the “Points whoring” issue, particularly for the swamp derby, but then again, the Ticket Office could almost eliminate that problem by making people apply individually for fixtures, where demand was obviously exceeding supply.

Anyway, see you all in the huge queue at the Paris Collection Point.
 
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I think there's some mileage in the Liverpool system - give priority to those fans that have attended the most matches in that competition. I know City give priority to those on the relevant cup schemes but someone with 15000 points who has only attended the home CL games gets first shout ahead of someone on 12000 points who has attended both the home CL games and some or all CL away games. The Liverpool system gives priority to the latter and they've used this criteria for years.
 
For me it should be on loyalty points. People on cup schemes should get a bonus, but shouldnt automatically jump ahead of others in the queue.

Something like criteria being 10,000 points, or cup scheme members with more than 9,000 points can get tickets.
 
a better system for claiming undeserved social benefits?

most certainly
 
Our system is better and i think the only reason some of the bigger teams like United and Liverpool haven't adopted it is because they can't just start from the beginning when the demand for tickets is as high as it is. How would they decide we is deserving of the tickets when nobody has any points? They can't do a random ballot and then award those people with loyalty points. We were very fortunate in that demand wasn't really a problem when the loyalty points scheme first started, A few years later and we wouldn't of been able to set it up. It was either a complete fluke or fantastic forward thinking from City.
 
There are a couple of draw backs to our system but on the whole its good. That said one fairly simple change they could make it increasing loyalty points relative to the attractiveness of the game. They use to do this more often but in my opinion those that went to Norwich, Kiev, Sunderland etc (I didn't by the way) should have benefited for additional loyalty points. It seems odd that you'd get the same 20/40 points for attending those games as you would for oversubscribed games like the derby, Bournemouth or Seville.
 
dannybcity said:
There are a couple of draw backs to our system but on the whole its good. That said one fairly simple change they could make it increasing loyalty points relative to the attractiveness of the game. They use to do this more often but in my opinion those that went to Norwich, Kiev, Sunderland etc (I didn't by the way) should have benefited for additional loyalty points. It seems odd that you'd get the same 20/40 points for attending those games as you would for oversubscribed games like the derby, Bournemouth or Seville.
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I'd certainly introduce that change, but also give additional points to people attending under sold cup games at the Etihad, which is also rewarding 'loyalty'.
 
You can't break loyalty down by a particular competition. I'm a reasonably high points season card holder that has fallen slightly behind recently due to the reduced number of away games I have attended the last couple of seasons. That said if I have been loyal for longer and am attending more games overall, why should someone who prioritises European aways jump the queue.

My job doesn't afford me the luxury of going to European aways too often although I went to the likes of groclin and Lokeren and have attended a fair few other euro aways over the years and also go to all home European and domestic cup games.

It's surely not fair that someone who's simply gone to all euro aways in one season should jump the queue. I do think matching a name to a season card does ensure that only those truly entitled get the ticket. This is a good move by the club.
 
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Interesting you should ask this, I'm pretty sure MCFC were looking for a new membership and loyalty manager a couple of months ago.

I'm sure they'll be watching
 
Scaring Europe to Death said:
So, in theory, a Platinum Seasoncard holder in the Cup Scheme could have gone to Wembley in March despite not attending against Sunderland, Palace, Hull, and Everton. In contrast a Gold Seasoncard holder, who wasn’t in the Cup Scheme, could have attended every game, but missed out on the Final.


Is that fair?
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If people commit their 'hard-earned' in order to park their arse on a Wembers seat, despite the hideous colour, then I think it's fair. The people who don't commit, and who are, perhaps, waiting to see who the opposition is in the early rounds, aren't entitled to the end game!
 
There's a very obvious attraction to going to European away games that doesn't exist for domestic games. Not sure attendance at those games alone makes supporters any more "loyal".
 
dannybcity said:
Yeah I agree. I'm sure they use to do both of those things but I'm not sure when it stopped.
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I remember them doing it during our last Europa season, I think we got 100 points for going to the Kiev home game.
To me City gain very little from selling all the tickets to Norwich or Sunderland away, unlike Palace at home in the COC. Therefore offer standard points for all away games but give a bonus to undersold home matches.
For years I wouldn't have been able to go to mid week away games which is why @Blue Mooner makes a good point about going mid week aways isn't about loyalty. However City are the ones who benefit from full home attendances and a combination of lower prices and points would attract people.
 
squirtyflower said:
I remember them doing it during our last Europa season, I think we got 100 points for going to the Kiev home game.
To me City gain very little from selling all the tickets to Norwich or Sunderland away, unlike Palace at home in the COC. Therefore offer standard points for all away games but give a bonus to undersold home matches.
For years I wouldn't have been able to go to mid week away games which is why @Blue Mooner makes a good point about going mid week aways isn't about loyalty. However City are the ones who benefit from full home attendances and a combination of lower prices and points would attract people.
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I've just had a quick look - we got 50 points for the Timisoara home game in 2010 and you're right, 100 for the home games after that.
 
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