EU referendum

[purplenose]

Thanks for your excellent analysis.

your very welcome mon amis.

 

[the blue panther]

Fantastic speech today by Michael Gove. Took the piss out of the "Remainians" wonderfully. Also highlighted why there is no need to panic on the day after the vote when we've voted 'Leave.' :-)
I was undecided for a long time, but on the grounds that the Remainians have a playing field heavily tilted in their favour and are therefore no better than a bunch of cheating United scummers (spending £9m extra on that leaflet last week, and God knows how much else yesterday in producing - via the treasury - a spurious 200 page document, suggesting that over the next 14 years, Brexit will cost us £4k each - this from a department which has been unable to forecast 6 months ahead accurately in the last 6 years.) Coupling that with the fact that we cannot restrict EU immigration whilst we are members, and the fact that the other 27 member states want to expand, so as to allow Albania, Serbia, Montenegro and Turkey membership in the coming years - and we cannot veto anything in that regard. And, also as the Euro zone is likely to continue to be crippled for the forseeable future, whilst the EU (or should I say Germany) sorts out the continuing problems of Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy to it's best advantage - at the expense of those countries.....
Bored now - and I guess you are. I could go on, but, that's my bit.

 

[Monkfish]

Even if it turned out it was going to cost £4k per household it would be well worth it given what the alternative is...

In June we all decide whether or not we remain England/UK or whether we sell our arses to France and Germany who in turn will decide who bums us.....anyone voting to stay in on the back of this nonsense should be ashamed of themselves....infact in my humble opinion anyone who votes against remaining an independant nation, which is exactly what this vote is, should be ashamed of themselves. Tin hat on.....but guess what..i dont give a fuck.

not to me I'm afraid, £4K is a lot of money to lose in my little world, pleased for you that it isn't so important in yours

 

[purplenose]

not to me I'm afraid, £4K is a lot of money to lose in my little world, pleased for you that it isn't so important in yours

Trust me mate as someone with a long term illness i cant afford 4k, but i dont for one minute believe it, and i believe that in the long term it will cost much much more both financially and in ways in which money is frankly unimportant. We could equally be 4k better off nobody knows. What we do know is that the EU is failing and will collapse and if we are in it when it does 4k will seem like loose change.

 

[SWP's back]

not to me I'm afraid, £4K is a lot of money to lose in my little world, pleased for you that it isn't so important in yours

You trust that figure in all honesty?

 

[Monkfish]

What we do know is that the EU is failing and will collapse and if we are in it when it does 4k will seem like loose change.

No we don't know that, you think that. Whichever way we go its a 'best guess' - might be good, might be a disaster not one of us actually knows or possibly could know

 

[Monkfish]

You trust that figure in all honesty?

Not really, don't trust any of the pro or anti Torys, been trying to get some other info on the matter

This is just one big battle for the future of the Conservative party, dunno why they involved the country in it

 

[purplenose]

We do know that not once in modern history has it worked taking numerous countries with different cultures languages religions and pace of life and making them into one big state doesnt work. We know full well that when this has been tried it has ended badly and usually with blood being spilt. I personally would rather risk some financial hardships than my kids having to life through a soviet union style break up 10 20 years down the line.......and that is exactly where the EU is headed.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

No, it doesn't, but as myself and many others have stated, that hasn't stopped the EU trading with China, Canada, the US, Mexico, South Korea, the UAE, Russia, Japan, India, Brazil, South Africa, to name but a few. The UK may have to agree to continuing free movement of labour, but nobody really cares about that, nor is it a sticking point as an argument to leave. It might be for some, but not all and from what i've seen its a minor complaint.But the fact remains that the EU MUST reach an agreement with any former member state.

There's more "doom and gloom" scenarios with the "negotiations will go on for years!" Why? Businesses want to make money, Britain and Europe will want a quick negotiation as the longer it continues the worse the markets will perform and that's the last thing the Eurozone (which will fair much worse off as it's already plummeting) wants or needs. Cameron and Osborne want to stay it; in the event of a Leave result why does anyone think they'll start asking for ridiculous demands? Unless you believe their stance on "In" is disingenuous? Do you really think European governments will be that petty, that because Britain wants to govern itself it'll not look at every aspect of its demands and pooh-pooh them out of spite? Because if so then we'd best stop having the remain campaign flaunt the "reforms have been put forward" argument as an incentive to remain, because if they wouldn't agree to demands from a leave vote, why are they obligated to agree to reforms in a remain one? The same logic applies.

The truth is nobody can tell what is going to happen as a result of leave or remain. With leave the EU could reject every notion Britain puts forward for trade and the saga continues for years. OR, they could reach a quick agreement to avoid catastrophe as a Britain leave result affects the EU just as severely. An In result could see Britain's reforms being accepted OR rejected, leaving us back at square one with Europe.

Your statement about being asked to choose between a less shittier vote reminds me of a humourous analogy I saw a few days ago; "Yes, a ship is safest in the harbour, but that's not why ships are built".

What on earth are you blabbering about? Gardens? Products? ITK?

Plain english please, no analogies.

Mmmm

 

[SWP's back]

Not really, don't trust any of the pro or anti Torys, been trying to get some other info on the matter

This is just one big battle for the future of the Conservative party, dunno why they involved the country in it

Because lots of people don't want to be in the EU. It's kind of important and to say it's down to the Tories is bollocks. Look at UKIP's votes in the last election and where they came from.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Not really, don't trust any of the pro or anti Torys, been trying to get some other info on the matter

This is just one big battle for the future of the Conservative party, dunno why they involved the country in it

It is directly down to Dim Dave shitting himself when he saw ukip rattling about.

 

[blueonblue]

The one good thing to come out of this thread is that the genuine undecided can see for themselves what a hypocritical bunch of arseclowns and outright liars the majority of the inners on here are.

The little lefties have climbed out of their prams on the in side despite it being the exact opposite of what they spout, they want to protect the "Working class & downtrodden", but keep the mass migration that undermines pay & working conditions as well as jobs, adds to the housing shortages and the strain on public services.
They go on about "Freedoms & rights" while quite happily campaigning for an organisation that wants to curtail them in every walk of life, slag off big business & the bankers but conveniently forgetting they are the driving force behind the EU.

The choice is a simple one, if you want your own country to decide its own future or not.

 

[smudgedj]

Looks like the Germans are going to play hard ball with the Greeks again on the latest developments today- from Guardian -

Greece hasn’t yet convinced its creditors that it has done enough to quality for debt relief, as they wrangle over bad debt rules and pension reforms.
The creditors are understood to be pushing for Greece to sign up to extra austerity, in case the bailout programme goes off course.

How do all the people in the remain camp who use the argument of backdoor socialism via the EU reconcile those comments with seeing a country that has basically been decimated with austerity measures have further measures put against them by the very body they are championing for on socialist causes - I just can't work it out as this has been an exercise in social genocide by the EU on a member state.

Got to love German inspired austerity; Germany only exists by being the king of default.

 

[purplenose]

The one good thing to come out of this thread is that the genuine undecided can see for themselves what a hypocritical bunch of arseclowns and outright liars the majority of the inners on here are.

The little lefties have climbed out of their prams on the in side despite it being the exact opposite of what they spout, they want to protect the "Working class & downtrodden", but keep the mass migration that undermines pay & working conditions as well as jobs, adds to the housing shortages and the strain on public services.
They go on about "Freedoms & rights" while quite happily campaigning for an organisation that wants to curtail them in every walk of life, slag off big business & the bankers but conveniently forgetting they are the driving force behind the EU.

The choice is a simple one, if you want your own country to decide its own future or not.

Absolutely on the nail.....but there are those who consider such sentiments as racist, infact i cant wait for the in lot to go public and announce that vote out is a vote for racism much like Cameron did via his cronies in the press when trying to persuade people not to vote UKIP.

 

[coleridge]

'Is it just me?' time...

1. Are Cameron and Osbourne playing some weird double bluff game?

2. So, let's say the vote is to leave. Won't that mean another GE? What if Labour get in? Will there be another referendum?

3. As for this immigration business. No-one seems to dispute that some workers need to be 'imported'. Best if they speak English and respect the Queen, eh? So, it'll be like the 60s all over again. Maybe that's a good thing. More hippy times around the corner.

Be careful what you wish for, as the outcome will inevitably be a surprise to all of us.

 

[blueonblue]

The only "Racism" I can see is the continuing discrimination of the native Britain in favour of every other f*cker, perhaps those who have such a low opinion of this country would like to avail themselves of the freedom of movement they love so much and f*ck off

 

[Monkfish]

The one good thing to come out of this thread is that the genuine undecided can see for themselves what a hypocritical bunch of arseclowns and outright liars the majority of the inners on here are.

well I am genuinely undecided but the more you post the more I think I should vote whichever way your not voting, your a very abusive man

 

[Monkfish]

The only "Racism" I can see is the continuing discrimination of the native Britain in favour of every other f*cker, perhaps those who have such a low opinion of this country would like to avail themselves of the freedom of movement they love so much and f*ck off

oh and fuck off out my country, I dont want your type living here

 

[Metal Biker]

Mmmm

Hurt you, did it? Did I use an analogy to try and prove something like you did? Nope, just brought one to light that I found amusing that was pertinent to me, nobody else.

Every assumption I had about you, you've proved in one post. Good job! (Although in fairness, you're running a little late)

 

[purplenose]

'Is it just me?' time...

1. Are Cameron and Osbourne playing some weird double bluff game?

2. So, let's say the vote is to leave. Won't that mean another GE? What if Labour get in? Will there be another referendum?

3. As for this immigration business. No-one seems to dispute that some workers need to be 'imported'. Best if they speak English and respect the Queen, eh? So, it'll be like the 60s all over again. Maybe that's a good thing. More hippy times around the corner.

Be careful what you wish for, as the outcome will inevitably be a surprise to all of us.

I am sure there will be a general election in about 4 years regardless, however it is difficult to see how Cameron and Osbourne would be able to stay at the head of the Tory party, so a change of leadership surely must be inevitable. This in turn may well be the best way to ensure Labour under Corbyn do not get in and finally finish the job of destroying our country that the current government has started. Infact a vote out may be about the only way to avoid such a catastrophy by forcing the Tories into changing direction and becoming fit to govern.