EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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squirtyflower said:
Can't remember what it was this morning but I was one group criticising another for doing what they normally do. And it just reminded me of the last line in Animal Farm
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Yes. read it when I was about 13 at the same time as starting to listen to punk and reggae on Peely. That's when I became an Anarchist and I've never looked back. never joined any party or group, ever. I have an issue with authority, which will come as a surprise to the mods, I know. That's also why I get very angry about being accused of any form of bigotry as I believe in one earth, one people and one love. The rest is just all fucking bullshit.
 
coleridge said:
Yeah. Got his book in the kitchen, which I need to read when I get time. Now there seems to be no fight in young people now and so few protest songs. A much blander world today, it seems.
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They're much more conditioned to join the rat race from an early age. SATs, pre SATs, no arts and music, continual examinations, wired into their PS4 and X Box, may as well be in the matrix. The pressure to deliver creating people who know the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Hey ho...no Dylan, no Pistols, no Wailers although Neil Young's still rockin' the free world.
You see it on here, every freedom gladly given away whilst those that rail against it are asked "what's your problem, are you hiding something?"..... our Brave New World.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Not offended in the slightest and happy to answer .

I would love to say I moved here because of a rational decision and because of the fact Australia has so much space, so much agriculture and raw material, or because of jobs or because it is positioned in the middle of economic growth.
The truth is I moved here for the heart , the sunshine makes me happy , I like living abroad it makes me feel on holiday and I married an Australian girl from the beaches of Sydney.

I would love one day to spend 4 months a year in Wales and 8 months in New South Wales as nothing in the world beats west wales in may and June .

I can't see me ever living back in the UK other than for months at a time as my wife, kids and life is here now and I love it and can see a positive future here.
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Completely off topic mate, but I visit Aus for the first time last year and I have to say I fell in love with the place. Stayed for a week in Sydney at the Shangri La at The Rocks and breakfasted everyday in a little cafe in front of Circular Quay. I think it's the nicest city I have ever visited and could live there in a heartbeat. I hear Melbourne is even nicer, which is hard to believe.

Once the parents are dead (too old and knackered to leave them on their own, sadly), I will consider very seriously emigrating there.
 
squirtyflower said:
They're much more conditioned to join the rat race from an early age. SATs, pre SATs, no arts and music, continual examinations, wired into their PS4 and X Box, may as well be in the matrix. The pressure to deliver creating people who know the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Hey ho...no Dylan, no Pistols, no Wailers although Neil Young's still rockin' the free world.
You see it on here, every freedom gladly given away whilst those that rail against it are asked "what's your problem, are you hiding something?"..... our Brave New World.
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They are still about just much harder to find and most venues have been closed down.
Noam Chomsky hit the nail right on the head with these quotes


If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.

Everyone’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s really an easy way: Stop participating in it.

The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people.

The Bible is one of the most genocidal books in history.

Education is a system of imposed ignorance.

and of course what this entire EU debate is about

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squirtyflower said:
They're much more conditioned to join the rat race from an early age. SATs, pre SATs, no arts and music, continual examinations, wired into their PS4 and X Box, may as well be in the matrix. The pressure to deliver creating people who know the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Hey ho...no Dylan, no Pistols, no Wailers although Neil Young's still rockin' the free world.
You see it on here, every freedom gladly given away whilst those that rail against it are asked "what's your problem, are you hiding something?"..... our Brave New World.
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Post of the week. ;)
 
coleridge said:
This is why I've always been an Anarchists. All governments are seminally evil. Go down a few levels and you get the same hierarchical, self-serving structures. In the end, all freedom is oppressed by authoritarian boot-licking clowns. Occasionally, accidental goodness appears, but there is always down to individual bravery in the face of organised oppression. EU. Not EU. Who cares, We'll all get shafted by the wealthy owners of the world just the same.
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This being the case, why the fuck would you would these evil bastards in control of MORE of your life than less?

Osborne et al are routinely criticised for their allegedly being ideologically in favour of the reducting in size of the state and the public sector. Surely then if you hold the above view, anyone promising to do away with as much of it as possible, would be welcomed? Yet paradoxically, those of the left - many of whom share the views you put forward - want to vote labour and with it, give *more* control to the evil empire; a bigger "state" with more bureaucracy and "hierarchical, self-serving structures". As opposed to the Tories who want to get rid of it as much as possible.

Anyone who thinks all governments are seminally evil, should vote Tory.
 
Chippy_boy said:
This being the case, why the fuck would you would these evil bastards in control of MORE of your life than less?

Osborne et al are routinely criticised for their allegedly being ideologically in favour of the reducting in size of the state and the public sector. Surely then if you hold the above view, anyone promising to do away with as much of it as possible, would be welcomed? Yet paradoxically, those of the left - many of whom share the views you put forward - want to vote labour and with it, give *more* control to the evil empire; a bigger "state" with more bureaucracy and "hierarchical, self-serving structures". As opposed to the Tories who want to get rid of it as much as possible.

Anyone who thinks all governments are seminally evil, should vote Tory.
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I make a simple point. You extrapolate it into territories unknown. As for the Tories, since when were they a party of 'freedom'?
 
coleridge said:
I make a simple point. You extrapolate it into territories unknown. As for the Tories, since when were they a party of 'freedom'?
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Since always. Tories want to sell off state-owned organisations, remove bureaucracy and red tape, empower individuals and individual freedom. That's what being a tory is.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Since always. Tories want to sell off state-owned organisations, remove bureaucracy and red tape, empower individuals and individual freedom. That's what being a tory is.
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I think you need to discuss this with someone else as I am not your target audience. ;)
 
Chippy_boy said:
I think you'll find they lose £1m/day in South Wales. How unprofitable would you like?
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I was referring to your post which I read as saying give money to the energy businesses. My apologies, now I've re-read it I realise what you were saying and my mistake.

To your point in steel. Yes it is unprofitable, in part due to the mass dumping of Chinese steel. If we were our own masters we could impose tariffs to prevent the dumping, not saying we cannot do that in the EU but it is somewhat more complicated.

To your point on losing £1m a day... Yes it could be seen as being wasteful to bail them out, but no more so than the bankers which we were very quick to do. Furthermore if the energy charges were more aligned to what they pay in Eurpoe the costs (and losses would be reduced).

However if the bottom line is sending £8.5bn a year into the black hole that is the EU or for a fraction of that supporting businesses and jobs in this country I know which I'd prefer. Don't forget all the associated social costs that will come from closing down the steel works, it will be phenomenal, why wouldn't we want to assist such a business? £365m against £8,500m means after bailing our the steel works we would still have a surplus of £8,135m a year to invest in our country.

The £8.5bn figures above are pretty much undisputed and represent our net contribution to the EU. My arguement also makes the assumption that the money we get back from the EU will continue to be invested directly by the UK into the same projects that the EU support.

I am content that some people will disagree, some very strongly and vehemently but still I feel we would be better off outside the EU rather than providing funding for lost cause economies that will never recover which just do not fit the one size fits all model that the Euro and the great big expensive, very expensive gravy train that is the over bureaucratic EU.
 
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The 'lost cause economies' are not supposed to recover, just become part of a huge state. Their economic collapse makes the march towards total federalism speed up. You are correct that this process will cost us a lot if money, but this makes us better off apparently.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I was referring to your post which I read as saying give money to the energy businesses. My apologies, now I've re-read it I realise what you were saying and my mistake.

To your point in steel. Yes it is unprofitable, in part due to the mass dumping of Chinese steel. If we were our own masters we could impose tariffs to prevent the dumping, not saying we cannot do that in the EU but it is somewhat more complicated.

To your point on losing £1m a day... Yes it could be seen as being wasteful to bail them out, but no more so than the bankers which we were very quick to do. Furthermore if the energy charges were more aligned to what they pay in Eurpoe the costs (and losses would be reduced).

However if the bottom line is sending £8.5bn a year into the black hole that is the EU or for a fraction of that supporting businesses and jobs in this country I know which I'd prefer. Don't forget all the associated social costs that will come from closing down the steel works, it will be phenomenal, why wouldn't we want to assist such a business? £365m against £8,500m means after bailing our the steel works we would still have a surplus of £8,135m a year to invest in our country.

The £8.5bn figures above are pretty much undisputed and represent our net contribution to the EU. My arguement also makes the assumption that the money we get back from the EU will continue to be invested directly by the UK into the same projects that the EU support.

I am content that some people will disagree, some very strongly and vehemently but still I feel we would be better off outside the EU rather than providing funding for lost cause economies that will never recover which just do not fit the one size fits all model that the Euro and the great big expensive, very expensive gravy train that is the over bureaucratic EU.
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Except that the EU wanted to lift the "lesser duties" rule on Chinese steel allowing higher tariffs to be applied - but it was blocked by....guess who!
 
Bodicoteblue said:
Except that the EU wanted to lift the "lesser duties" rule on Chinese steel allowing higher tariffs to be applied - but it was blocked by....guess who!
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That's one version of the story, in fact it's the one I prefer to believe..... That said this Tory government is a totally different kettle of fish, untrustworthy lying shits and that should come as no suprise to anyone so them along with the unaccountable unelected commissioners for Europe and their wasteful spending really don't put us into a great position do they?
 
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