EU referendum

[EalingBlue2]

I have not suggested that, you have and yes to suggest that is bollocks, which is why i said they do it to suit themselves.

As @roaminblue has stated you have not painted a true picture.
Four of the top six export markets are EU countries but at least we are increasing business with Angola, Pakistan, Azerbaijan and Macedonia, which is good.

The other issue as well is what you need to import , if you need to import the basics of food, of energy, of raw materials, of fossil fuels etc then you are on the weak end of a negotiation as you are needing to import things you a. Need and b. Cannot produce yourself. If you need to import value add or luxury goods then you are a cash cow to other markets but even if you have a KK in negotiations they will know they have AA. This is my big worry for Britain. Countries like Australia, India, Brazil and Russia can't wait to start supplying more but there is not that much in return that is really needed.

The numbers and dollars are fine but what matters is what is behind them and that's where the rubber hits the road.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

The big question which not one outer (or to be fair inner though that's not where the question was posed) has not even attempted to answer is what is Britains economic future? What is it that going out of Europe is going to help Britain export?

How does a country with no natural resources, a dramatically declining standard of education (comparatively speaking - though much of this is others coming up) , products and exports that are increasingly copied and bettered by the countries who will be our new trading partners etc. Is there actually a plan other than cutting labour rights, cutting standards and getting more cheap from abroad (which can give a short term boost) to address more than a century of decline? I don't see it, I just see a desire to cut education standards , cut health standards and cut consumer protection to try and win, which is not a strategy where the UK can compete on?

This in many ways is unchanged by in or out so is a higher question than the vote and in many ways the question everyone knows there is no answer to so part of the reason the vote is on as it kicks it down the road

You severely underestimate this



What could possibly go wrong with this crew of the sinking ship HMS UK

 

[EalingBlue2]

You severely underestimate this



What could possibly go wrong with this crew of the sinking ship HMS UK

A lot could go wrong, but the long term strategy of a country and how Britain is long term going to maintain an ageing population, a world where competition will come from everywhere in a country with a big ageing population and little natura resource is beyond me. This isn't even a question or issue of the government it is a problem that has been put off for decades and will take decades to solve. How does Britain re-invent , how does Britain flourish and what is the long term vision. Labour did not do much more than the Tories to fix it.

The Brexit vote is a vote on shifting deck chairs on the titanic which is being carried out to put off discussion of the serious issues. Sadly when the winning side gets over crowing about victory we will be left with a crash into an iceberg which the losers will blame on the vote. But until there is a plan of where to sail, how to sail and what to do about the iceberg pissing about wasting time and money and goodwill on the vote is scandalous. Sadly as with all our politicians - Cameron took a short term easy option and the effects will divide Britain for decades, possibly end the union and accelerate the century old decline, whichever way the vote goes.

The decline was there pre EU, it was there during the EU and it will continue with or without the EU.

 

[blueonblue]

So we have "A declining standard of education"...But its nothing to do with our schools being swamped by unfettered immigration leading to overcrowded classes where the teacher is having to spend all their time working through translators on the slowest elements to the degradation of an education for the brightest ?.

You have the f*cking gaul to claim "Cutting labour rights" is nothing to do with flooding the job market with cheap immigrant labour, that undermines wages and working conditions.

"Cuts to heath standards" have nothing to do with the extra millions of immigrants, often from countries where there is no health care so arrive with long standing problems ?.

But wait, YOU want a plan...Explain how you can build anything when your not in charge of getting the materials needed, the builders merchant keeps sending you bricks when you need pipe or plaster, but you can not refuse the bricks which keep coming, so you have to stockpile them, pay for their storage and upkeep.
You explain to the merchant you have plenty of bricks, but he tells you that you have to keep taking them because your a member of the builders club, so you now have a site full of bricks that you are paying for an no f*cking house.

That would be the height of stupidity, its also how things work under the EU.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Notice the poll at the top is slowly but definitely moving towards a 40/60 split. I don't think this split is representative of national opinion, but the gradual slide further towards brexit probably is as the 'in' proponents fail to come up with anything tangible.

 

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

Notice the poll at the top is slowly but definitely moving towards a 40/60 split. I don't think this split is representative of national opinion, but the gradual slide further towards brexit probably is as the 'in' proponents fail to come up with anything tangible.

I think some of the 'out' is sentiment given the current political and economic situation and the backdrop of terrorism, and the migrant situation in ME.

That said, practically everyone I know will vote out....

Edit: I will add that the above is largely because of a lack of decent, accurate, quantifiable and logical argument for either case.

I'm in business and manage a large company that sells products across EMEA. I will be voting out primarily because I'm interested to find out what it will do for our national identity but also because I genuinely believe we will be better off....let's not forget, this little Island was responsible for 40% of the the worlds best inventions....and we used to own most of their asses ;)

I think were up to the challenge...


Apparently we spent 13 billion on EU membership in 2015, we received back 4.5 billion so net 8.5 billion...second highest contributor after Germany. Obviously inners argue that the benefit of being in the single market far far far outweighs the costs of membership but I'm yet to see data around that and my personal view is that as a net importer from the trade block we could negotiate very good trade terms or if not, quite simple to set up some favourable unilateral or bilateral trade deals with other trading blocks....

 

[cibaman]

Notice the poll at the top is slowly but definitely moving towards a 40/60 split. I don't think this split is representative of national opinion, but the gradual slide further towards brexit probably is as the 'in' proponents fail to come up with anything tangible.

Still 18% don't knows. Most will vote remain

 

[Gabriel]

Should be interesting to see how the Dutch referendum goes this week. Not quite Brexit, but it will no doubt add more grist to the mill.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dut...on_Agreement_referendum,_2016#Opinion_polling

 

[blueonblue]

Still 18% don't knows. Most will vote remain

I have heard it said that the floating voter will favour the no change option, but that its self is a non starter on one simple fact, the EU will not remain the same.

The aims of the EU is to form a super state of Europe with full integration of member countries at every level , it is not going to stop until that happens no matter what countries think they have agreed too, or what vetto`s they claim to have. We originally signed up to a free trade union, anyone think thats what we are mired in now ?.

The people who think an in vote will lead to things just remaining as they are now are also being conned, its simply not on the table, get out or go under as a nation are your only choices.

 

[grunge]

Notice the poll at the top is slowly but definitely moving towards a 40/60 split. I don't think this split is representative of national opinion, but the gradual slide further towards brexit probably is as the 'in' proponents fail to come up with anything tangible.

the out group havn't come up with anything tangible either,

I personally feel we cant really vote until all the facts are on the table about what sort of exit we are looking at, a clean break and go it alone? a Norwegian style system?, a Swiss style system?. Until we know that we cant really vote with any certainty, all of them are quite different and would have different results. exiter's wont have a clue what they are voting for.

I dont doubt that this uncertainty is intentional.