IThey. were. not. French. They did not adopt French customs, they did not adopt French culture, their ancestry came from the Vikings who settled in Northern France (who surrendered Normandy without much resistance, just a little fyi there.) Nothing about that makes them French, just their ability to break language barriers to make trading with their new 'neighbours' easier. (Some French citizens speak English, does that make them English?)
The Anglo-Saxons were not "British", they were Germanic. Britain is the name of the island, given by the Romans. The 'Britons' were a collection of Celtic and Gaelic communities that were then conquered or dispersed by the Anglo-Saxons. The Anglo-Saxons themselves did not regard themselves as being 'British'.
The French being bad at fighting isn't nonsense when you consider their record in war is one of the worst in history, especially in regards to how long the nation has existed. The stereotype isn't one born from schadenfreude but historical fact. Someone has to be the worst at something, as it happens, its the French. Here's a few examples of why the French have to endure such japing.
Gallic Wars. Lost.
Hundred Years War. Mostly lost.
Italian Wars. Lost.
Thirty Years War. France weren't really involved, gets invaded anyway.
The Dutch War. A draw (when England and Germany got involved to help the French)
War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War. Lost.
War of the Spanish Succession. Lost.
American Revolution. "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."
French Revolution. Won. Primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.
The Napoleonic Wars. Lost. (Technicallyqw manage to lose we
Napoleon WAS a Corsican as well)
The Franco-Prussian War. Lost.
World War I. Saved by Britain and the United States
World War II. Surrendered early on, Northern France collaborated.
War in Indochina. Lost.
Algerian Rebellion. Lost.
Nooo, the discussion you stated was that the EU is responsible for bringing peace to Europe whereas everyone else acknowledges that it's down to NATO.
I also stated that NATO wasn't set up initially as a "protect Europe" initiative, but has become one due to it's effectiveness at preventing European NATO member countries from being invaded.
Listen, if you don't know of any non-NATO country attacking a NATO member in the last 70 years, just say so. There's no shame in not knowing.
Didn't Britain voluntarily give those 'lost territories' their independence once their people asked for it? They didn't lose it militarily.I
Britain has lost more territory in the last two centuries or so than anyone has ever . Including a little before that losing the world soon to be richest country to a few people on beaver fur and raccoon skin hats
We also learnt at school about how we won every battle against the French and I could never understand about how we beat them in very war but they managed to kick us out entirely by the 1550's
Thanks for avoiding answering the question, again.Thanks for your latest irrelevant post!
Victory is 50.00001% we can't be having people claiming moral victories because they got 48% either way. It's winner take all.....Agreed on the out vote point. I thinks 55-45 victory would be deemed a massive success for the remainers, whereas anything like a48-52 victory for the remainers through the to any victory for the Leave campaign would be seen as a victory for the Leavers!
Maybe we need to make it less attractive to cross the channel? Presumably a post brexit Britain would be so economically broken they would no longer want to come? They are after all in the EU land of economic plenty once they get to France.A couple of points on the immigration issue.
Firstly, the leave campaign have made a great play about the UK being able to negotiate a trade deal with the EU if we left and cite Norway as a country that's done exactly that. This is perfectly true but what they neglect to mention is that to get this trade deal Norway had to agree to unlimited immigration from any and all EU countries. So in terms of immigration from the EU we'd be in exactly the same situation as we are now except we'd be on the outside looking in.
Secondly, the situation in the 'Jungle' in Calais is that, as part of cross border co-operation within the EU, the French authorities are committed to do their best to prevent these people (and any others) from illegal access to the UK. There is also a British police presence in Calais to monitor the situation and co-operate with the French. Calais is therefore effectively our border. If we leave the EU the French police will wash their hands of the migrant issue in Calais and no longer prevent anyone from attempting to enter the UK illegally as it would no longer be either their problem or their resonsibility. The British police contingent would also have to be withdrawn. This would mean open season for illegal migrants and the couple of recent instances of boats full of them caught crossing the Channel would increase exponentially and northern France would become a magnet for many more migrants trying to enter the UK illegally.
To the best of my knowledge no-one in the leave campaign has had the guts to point any of this out among all the guff about "regaining control of our borders". The reality is rather different.
Some yes, some happily but many were surrendered in effect as There was no choice . Defending many of them was not an option you are right as the country was nigh on bankrupt and had lost its global military power capabilities.Didn't Britain voluntarily give those 'lost territories' their independence once their people asked for it? They didn't lose it militarily.
You hope. A close margin is still win and we must accept this in a democracy. Having said that a close vote to remain would be a disaster. We would lose any leverage for EU reform and division in the country and main parties would be like a political cancer. I want out, but hope that if we vote in its by at least 60/40Victory is 50.00001% we can't be having people claiming moral victories because they got 48% either way. It's winner take all.....
Maybe we need to make it less attractive to cross the channel? Presumably a post brexit Britain would be so economically broken they would no longer want to come? They are after all in the EU land of economic plenty once they get to France.
"History is written by the victor" ;)Some yes, some happily but many were surrendered in effect as There was no choice . Defending many of them was not an option you are right as the country was nigh on bankrupt and had lost its global military power capabilities.
I just think if you really study history you realise just how utterly biases the history everyone learns is especially when it comes to the British and the French and how in fact the French weren't really French and lost of the British weren't really British .
A huge win is better because it stops any allegations of rigging and reduces the impact of "lies" but I can't see a big win either way. The thing is an in loss becomes subsumed in what comes next and possibly further votes so there is much uncertainty but an out loss is more definitive and therefore disappointment will be higher and whole parties who stand for nothing else will lose the reason to exist. My big worry is they will not lose well and will seek to undermine the country making their bad prophecies almost self fulfilling?You hope. A close margin is still win and we must accept this in a democracy. Having said that a close vote to remain would be a disaster. We would lose any leverage for EU reform and division in the country and main parties would be like a political cancer. I want out, but hope that if we vote in its by at least 60/40
A huge win is better because it stops any allegations of rigging and reduces the impact of "lies" but I can't see a big win either way. The thing is an in loss becomes subsumed in what comes next and possibly further votes so there is much uncertainty but an out loss is more definitive and therefore disappointment will be higher and whole parties who stand for nothing else will lose the reason to exist. My big worry is they will not lose well and will seek to undermine the country making their bad prophecies almost self fulfilling?
The cynic in me believes that Brexit have some horrible story up their sleeves possibly even concocted that will bring in a cologne type story to the press a day or two before the election and that the last week will be truly toxic , possibly it will be something equally wrong brought by Inners about the personal lives of prominent brexiters - I hope not.
I just know , 587 used to work for Goldman Sachs too
I wouldn't be so sure ..... You have a higher opinion of the common sense of the voter than I do....
I know that, if the only consequence that matters iis the outcome of the referendum your point is correct and valid. However, like too many of your previous points, this point is futile. You know precisely what was being said here.... still if you're happy to go and shove your head down the dunny and choose not to see the bigger picture that IS developing, then fair play to you!Victory is 50.00001% we can't be having people claiming moral victories because they got 48% either way. It's winner take all.....
I agree the Leave campaign is very poorly constructed, however the immigration card is stronger than some may choose to acknowledge. If you were in a battle such as this, would you not play your strongest card at every opportunity? A bit like the Remain campaign keep wanting to talk ablout the economy.... all's fair in love and war!When the leavers turn up the vitriol to this extent then it strikes me they know they've lost. They're already talking post referendum revenge which means they know which way the wind is blowing.
It is possible the polls could be wrong, but they are beginning to look consistently in favour of remain.
The leaver campaign is a shambles, the constant playing of the immigration card, which they reckon is the strongest one they've got, looks increasingly like the only one they've got.
Its a referendum because no one in the Parliament wants to be the one that is forever tarnished by the decision.Here's one that will no doubt see the frothers frothing even more. It's a point i made right at the start of this thread and the way the whole thing has been discussed merely strengthens my original thoughts.
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...rliament-leaders-david-cameron-david-mitchell
I agree the Leave campaign is very poorly constructed, however the immigration card is stronger than some may choose to acknowledge. If you were in a battle such as this, would you not play your strongest card at every opportunity, a bit like the Remain campaign keep wanting to talk ablout the economy.... ally's fair in live and war!