EU referendum

[hgblue]

For gods sake how many bleeding times. We are 7% of the EU's exports and 20+ countries hardly export anything to us at all. You're simply in denial because it's not what you want to hear. All the trading agreements other countries have struck with the EU have taken years and no-one has managed to come to an agreement that includes services, which is vital for us and our services based economy. And then you've got the consideration that (a) a trade agreement that gives our businesses access to the EU without complying with EU regulations, is an unfair playing field that no country will want to agree to, and (b) they also won't want to agree because doing so gives the green light to anyone else who wants to leave.

There is absolutely no basis on which to be confident that a favourable agreement could be reached in less than many years, perhaps a decade or more. It needs 20 countries to agree it, not two.

If you don't want to accept this then fine. Stick your head in the sand all you like.

Haha, this post actually made me chuckle. You think that because I don't agree with your assertion that I don't understand what you're saying? The fact that they export a lower percentage of their gdp to us than we do to them will not make one iota of difference to the detrimental effect losing the UK export market would have on German car manufacturers or French farmers. I heard a figure mentioned recently of 800,000 brand new high value German cars sold in this country last year. These are high end luxury products for which they get paid handsomely. To lose this market would be a disaster for that industry and they know it. So our hand is a strong one and our negotiating team will know this. If the economic powerhouse of the Eurozone wants a deal with the UK it's inconceivable that they won't get one.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Haha, this post actually made me chuckle. You think that because I don't agree with your assertion that I don't understand what you're saying? The fact that they export a lower percentage of their gdp to us than we do to them will not make one iota of difference to the detrimental effect losing the UK export market would have on German car manufacturers or French farmers. I heard a figure mentioned recently of 800,000 brand new high value German cars sold in this country last year. These are high end luxury products for which they get paid handsomely. To lose this market would be a disaster for that industry and they know it. So our hand is a strong one and our negotiating team will know this. If the economic powerhouse of the Eurozone wants a deal with the UK it's inconceivable that they won't get one.

I've said all that needs to be said, you don't agree, fine with me.

 

[Chippy_boy]

And you're voting to leave the EU, which protects worker's rights way more than any of our own laws. Riiiight.

It's a delicious irony isn't it :-)

If we vote leave, then Cameron will almost certainly lose his job and with him George. Boris will get to be PM and faced with the choice of Boris or Albert Steptoe, Boris may very well win the next election. Even if he doesn't he has 2 full years to repeal the working time directive, remove what workers' rights he can, cut the top rate of income tax back to 40%, slash further public spending and increase inheretence tax to £1m.

Bring it on :-)

 

[EalingBlue2]

The problem with the remain voters thinking it will be difficult to negotiate a trade deal post brexit is that they are projecting their own sense of weakness onto the negotiating team.

This nation, for all her faults and disgusting history, survived perfectly well from the middle ages until the 1970's without needing Luxembourg's permission to fish her waters, and trade with whomever she chose to, in which ever manner suited both parties.

The post brexit team will simply say, to Germany, you want to sell your cars and your engineering to the UK? No problem, speak to your partners about this trade deal, drop the tariffs and we'll do the same. It'll be just like before only this time we ain't starving our public services of cash to pay for the privilege of buying German cars or French wine.

There is no confidence in our nation on the remain side. We are the 5th biggest economy in the world, maybe the 4th shortly, don't tell me we couldn't survive. And thrive.

Bearing in mind most of our monarchy and aristocracy came first from France and then from the Netherlands , Scotland or Germany I would suggest we were constantly being told where we could and couldn't fish etc.

Hell, a very large chunk of our monarchs or in Alberts case de facto monarchs didn't even bother to learn the language. Our head of state was speaking German less than 200 years ago.

We are the 5th biggest economy - a little over a century ago we were the biggest , 5th is a state of continued decline not a massive triumph . I can't wait to hear the Italian out voters citing their magnificence when the Romans ruled.

There is confidence but in a globalising world where increasing cooperation is going to be needed just to tax business and individuals , where borders are becoming less relevant some people believe in moving to the future rather than trying to bring back past glories and some Victorian idea of the nation state

 

[CityStu]

And you're voting to leave the EU, which protects worker's rights way more than any of our own laws. Riiiight.

I haven't mentioned workers rights at all there.

In keep telling us that immigration is good so surely concreting over the country and welcoming absolutely everyone here is a great idea? We'd have the best economy in the world! Everyone would have a shit life but who gives a fuck?

 

[geoff clipp]

Having looked into this a lot over the past few weeks, I've come out of this feeling that the EU is a bit shit really. The problem I have is that it's the political right that have been allowed to largely define the argument for leaving. And it's the political right that will decide how we move forward if we do leave. That will most likely entail us ditching the handful of good things I actually like about the EU and probably pursuing the more dubious EU policies such as TTIP and a rampant appetite for more privatisation. All in all I think that makes me a reluctant "Bremainer".

 

[bugsyblue]

I haven't mentioned workers rights at all there.

In keep telling us that immigration is good so surely concreting over the country and welcoming absolutely everyone here is a great idea? We'd have the best economy in the world! Everyone would have a shit life but who gives a fuck?

Sorry I must have misunderstood your 'working until we keel over' comment! And I'm sorry EU migrants have made your life so shit.

 

[CityStu]

Sorry I must have misunderstood your 'working until we keel over' comment! And I'm sorry EU migrants have made your life so shit.

I don't recall the EU ever weighing in over retirement ages.

My life isn't shit but I don't want to live in a concrete jungle. Are you happy with the strain on public services, the cramped new build housing estates, squeezing onto public transport or being stuck for hours in traffic? We're reaching the country's limit of people IMO whilst keeping a reasonable standard of living. Staying in the EU could push us over that precipice.

 

[Helmet Cole]

How can anyone make a call on whether losing £61m a week is a good or bad thing when we don't actually know what the financial benefits are of the EU trade agreements. It's very feasible that we leave the EU, thus save £61m a week but actually lose £100m of trade and business contracts per week as a consequence. Equally if we still want to trade with our European partners then the EU will insist we have to abide by certain laws anyway, laws we no longer will get a say on because we aren't a party member, look at Norway and Switzerland!

Having heard reasons put forward for why we benefit from the other 300m per week we contribute, I think it's fair to assume the 'in' campaign would present any positive outcome from the other 61m we lose if it existed. As one of the bigger economies in the happy EU family it is likely that we are a net contributor - which is a posh word for loser.

 

[bugsyblue]

I don't recall the EU ever weighing in over retirement ages.

My life isn't shit but I don't want to live in a concrete jungle. Are you happy with the strain on public services, the cramped new build housing estates, squeezing onto public transport or being stuck for hours in traffic? We're reaching the country's limit of people IMO whilst keeping a reasonable standard of living. Staying in the EU could push us over that precipice.

And leaving the EU isn't going to solve that mate! The world is a finite space and overpopulation is going to be one of the biggest challenges to Humans in the future. If we leave the EU we aren't suddenly going to be underpopulated and if we are then our economy will shrink! So while building work will halt and there will be less people on the roads and trains, businesses will fold, taxes and inflation will eventually rise and those nice holidays folk like to take will suddenly become a luxury. Unfortunately the world changes and without a world war, famine, epidemic, the world's population will continue to grow at an alarming rate.

The IMF have said only mass immigration will stop first world countries going into recession in the future as globalisation hits peak and markets slow down. This is a big challenge for capitalism but let's leave that for another discussion.

Have a read of this and see how migration benefits economies.

https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD Migration Policy Debates Numero 2.pdf

I don't want to live in a world where we can't move either but being part of the EU, which has done more to protect workers and civil rights than the UK has since Thatcher ruined us as a social conscious country, safeguards our livelihood more than than being on our own. I actually trust Brussels more than this lot in power at the minute!