EU referendum

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Do you not see that this perceived risk is why we would have no problem getting an amicable trade agreement with the EU whilst freeing us up to do our own deals with the rest of the world. Take a look at Switzerland's trade with non EU countries compared to the EU (per capita) there is no comparison because Switzerland as a single entity can always do the deal which is best for itself without having to worry about Greek cheese or French wine or Polish Sausage!

Big risk to think we can scare the EU into giving us a better deal?......I really dont believe they would be willing to upset all their EU members to keep us happy.......everyone would be wanting a better deal otherwise.....The EU could easily give us a "take it or leave it deal" and whatever that is, we can guarantee its going to be a worse deal than what we currently have, anything more would just be bad business for them...they just not going to risk other countries wanting to leave by giving us a better deal.....it would open the flood gates for everyone to want to do it...They will protect their own first.....

 

[Bodicoteblue]

It´ll be cheaper, the pound will take a hammering against the Euro, and as we all know the French own Airbus and Germany own Rolls Royce and both companies work in the Euro. They will be getting more pound for their Euros. Makes it cheaper for them.

The Germans (BMW) own rolls Royce cars , not Rolls Royce aero engines -an entirely separate entity and British owned.

Why would we want to take them back? We aren't at war. We have zillions of foreign-owned companies in the UK of both EU and non-EU nationality.

I've even heard of a football club with Abu Dhabi ownership.

Errm, so we can control our own utilities and sources of power -fairly important in the great scheme of everyday life in any country, in terms of price and availability- vital in industrial terms in respect of the the cost of production. Anyone fancy EU countries setting the price of our electricity,gas and water outside our control??
I would have thought it would mean a lot to those who want independence from foreign intervention in british affairs

 

[Leech]

Hate to think how incredibly messy this divorce is going to be, should it happen.

Wouldn't be surprised if we're still toing and froing over petty little things in a decade's time, the uncertainty will kill.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Hate to think how incredibly messy this divorce is going to be, should it happen.

Wouldn't be surprised if we're still toing and froing over petty little things in a decade's time, the uncertainty will kill.

I agree leech.....

 

[EalingBlue2]

Looking at it from another angle then...If we really believe we that important to the EU then our actions are not just going to risk the UK economy...it going to risk a whole contient! .makes the risk even greater...this isnt about us and them....we need them to make our economy work...if they cant cope, then we cant cope...whether we in or out....better to work together surely?

If the EU without us does not cope then everyone of the worst case scenarios coming out will manifest. Of Britains top 7 export markets 5 are EU and one is de facto EU in trading terms. If the EU tanks hundreds of thousands of jobs are At very real risk and if the EU tanks and that sends Southern Europe more widely into a tailspin then hundreds of billions more will be required to bail out our banks.

Brexit seem to use the EU won't cope without us as a badge of honour, if they are right it could harm Britaim for a generation

 

[EalingBlue2]

Like I'm telling you... All is not well, THEY NEED US!

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/ci...EEDS-Britain-in-the-EU-or-euro-could-go-UNDER

If the Euro folds , another bigger credit crunch happens and most of our biggest markets tank, how good exactly do you think that would be for the UK? How many businesses do well when their accounts receivable turns bad and most of their major customers experience severe fiscal difficulty? - not many survive .

Seems Brexit are now making the case for staying in?

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

If the EU without us does not cope then everyone of the worst case scenarios coming out will manifest. Of Britains top 7 export markets 5 are EU and one is de facto EU in trading terms. If the EU tanks hundreds of thousands of jobs are At very real risk and if the EU tanks and that sends Southern Europe more widely into a tailspin then hundreds of billions more will be required to bail out our banks.

Brexit seem to use the EU won't cope without us as a badge of honour, if they are right it could harm Britaim for a generation

I agree completely EalingBlue....the EU wont cope argument only seems to strenghten the reasons to "stay".....every way you look, this feels more like self-harm.....I really must be missing something....because nothing about "leaving" makes any sense at all......

 

[EalingBlue2]

I agree completely EalingBlue....the EU wont cope argument only seems to strenghten the reasons to "stay".....every way you look, this feels more like self-harm.....I really must be missing something....because nothing about "leaving" makes any sense at all......

I hope the Brexit campaigners exaggerate Britains importance as an EU collapse would effect the world for a decade and impact us all. I don't worry too much as I think even an out vote will probably end up being reversed or will be about 1/3 out and 2/3 in as when faced with the real risk no serious politicians will have the bottle to pull the trigger . That will have big issues for democracy in the UK in perception terms ...

 

[BigJoe#1]

If the Euro folds , another bigger credit crunch happens and most of our biggest markets tank, how good exactly do you think that would be for the UK? How many businesses do well when their accounts receivable turns bad and most of their major customers experience severe fiscal difficulty? - not many survive .

Seems Brexit are now making the case for staying in?

No, your going back to being a little bit silly again now. I'll wait until you've something sensible to say then reply.

Speak later!

 

[sir baconface]

Errm, so we can control our own utilities and sources of power -fairly important in the great scheme of everyday life in any country, in terms of price and availability- vital in industrial terms in respect of the the cost of production. Anyone fancy EU countries setting the price of our electricity,gas and water outside our control??
I would have thought it would mean a lot to those who want independence from foreign intervention in british affairs

Errm, they come under UK regulators and are also subject to competition.

Can you give examples of how EDF, etc might "intervene" in British affairs?

 

[stonerblue]

What is? The referendum?

I'd be inclined to agree with you, if this Government had sat down and broken the habit of a lifetime and thought through the consequences, they would never in a million years have called it. A minority greater than 40% means there is going to be huge dissatisfaction whoever wins, dissatisfaction that will not be easily appeased, there is a decade of severe discontent and upheaval ahead whoever wins.... possibly longer!

Yes Joe, the referendum.

 

[cibaman]

Your views, valid to you not to everyone though, still you're as entitled to your views as I am to mine?

BTW, What's your take on the pro-remain MPs using their parliamentary majority to ensure we remain I , even if the public vote to leave? I am genuinely interested in your take on that.

Remain in the single market, not the EU. Its a big difference.

Although if the Leave campaign were to make it clear before the vote that Brexit could lead to the UK leaving the single market, it would be more difficult for the Remainers to use their parliamentary majority to insist we stay in the single market. Leave would then have a stronger mandate to take the UK out of the single market.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Remain in the single market, not the EU. Its a big difference.

Although if the Leave campaign were to make it clear before the vote that Brexit could lead to the UK leaving the single market, it would be more difficult for the Remainers to use their parliamentary majority to insist we stay in the single market. Leave would then have a stronger mandate to take the UK out of the single market.

The Brexiters have been a bit muddled on this point but on Sunday they confirmed that an out vote means leaving the single market (an integral part of the EU).

They don't know whether and when they would be able to negotiate re-entry into single market.

 

[BigJoe#1]

The Brexiters have been a bit muddled on this point but on Sunday they confirmed that an out vote means leaving the single market (an integral part of the EU).

They don't know whether and when they would be able to negotiate re-entry into single market.

The vote is whether or not we Leave or Remain in the EU is it not? I get the single market being different to the EU but, surely it's within the gift of Parliamentary MPs to decide if we will stay in the single market, that will be one of the points of negotiation between the Uk and the EU.

My points about the EU being weaker upon our leaving does not follow that's what I want to see, it just my opinion of what will actually be. If it is the case then I believe the position constantly being put forward by the Remailers that the EU will penalise us when we negotiate with them is not going to be quite so straightforward. I would prefer to believe that if, when we leave we will be as supportive in making the parting as amicable as possible and will do all we can to avoid making waves that would be appreciated by the EU, all of which would mean the circumstances are going to be unique and we may get deals which the Remainers currently consider to be unlikely. I must confess Angela M has publicly stated she will make it difficult for us and that we're not likely to get what we want... again I will be keen to observe the reaction of the German people before I readily accept her words.

 

[mcfc1632]

Not sure if anyone can assist as I can't access swathes of this website http://www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/ as I am not in the UK. I read that over 107,000 votes had been casted and the figure for leave was 85% -

Has anyone here voted on this site? If so does it allow you to make multiple votes?

I always ignore the main media online polls as most of them are right wing and allow multiple votes so totally useless as a guide to anything but I heard this website was reputable but I can't believe that those numbers are right!

I did not have to enter my name - assume it is linked to my device

currently 82% leave

The site states:

Poll is open from now until the referendum day.

• It is restricted to UK Internet users only.

• No registration is necessary (unless someone from the same location or same computer wishes to also vote, or you wish to change your vote).

• Registration will allow you to change your vote at any time, and it also logs you into our debate and comments sections.

Features

• The poll has three views of the results - bar chart, pie chart, and a line graph to see how the poll evolves between now and the referendum day.
• You can view the real-time vote counts for each option by clicking the line graph icon and hovering over a data point.
• The poll has a share function that will share the “live” poll result in a time stamped image to your social network. Try it out!

 

[mcfc1632]

Would normally subscribe to that as well but there is something odd going on when you look at the results on other websites (not just footy ones) they seem to indicate leave ahead in most of them -

Odds were 1/6 on remain and over 4/1 to leave only a couple of weeks ago - the money being placed is shifting substantially

 

[Tim of the Oak]

The vote is whether or not we Leave or Remain in the EU is it not? I get the single market being different to the EU but, surely it's within the gift of Parliamentary MPs to decide if we will stay in the single market, that will be one of the points of negotiation between the Uk and the EU.

My points about the EU being weaker upon our leaving does not follow that's what I want to see, it just my opinion of what will actually be. If it is the case then I believe the position constantly being put forward by the Remailers that the EU will penalise us when we negotiate with them is not going to be quite so straightforward. I would prefer to believe that if, when we leave we will be as supportive in making the parting as amicable as possible and will do all we can to avoid making waves that would be appreciated by the EU, all of which would mean the circumstances are going to be unique and we may get deals which the Remainers currently consider to be unlikely. I must confess Angela M has publicly stated she will make it difficult for us and that we're not likely to get what we want... again I will be keen to observe the reaction of the German people before I readily accept her words.

It's a bit like being a member of a snooker club and saying I won't pay the membership fee but I have the right to play snooker if I put 50p in the slot for the lights. It just won't wash.

As you said yesterday, if the public vote out then Parliament should honour the Countries vote. The role of Parliament should be to help (both in terms of policy and legislation) achieve the smoothest transition possible / least bumpy ride.

The only way I can see that changing is if the Brexiters say they were prepared to accept free movement of people to regain entry to the single market - that they promise wouldn't ever happen!

 

[EalingBlue2]

No, your going back to being a little bit silly again now. I'll wait until you've something sensible to say then reply.

Speak later!

To be clear I was talking about the views expressed by others that Europe couldn't cope without us and would crumble as if it was a badge of honour . I don't think this will happen pointing out the consequences

 

[BigJoe#1]

To be clear I was talking about the views expressed by others that Europe couldn't cope without us and would crumble as if it was a badge of honour . I don't think this will happen pointing out the consequences

Thanks for the clarification. I certainly don't regard it as a badge of honour. I do think the EU will struggle, Germany alone is not strong enough to keep the weaker economies afloat. The countries (ie Greece) themselves I don't think would accept and as said in my previous post, I think the German people are likely to their voices heard if we vote to leave

I sincerely think we could work WITH the EU to negotiate an amicable parting in a scenario that has not been preceded.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I would generally agree with that too as the Indy ref showed that those that shout the loudest don't necessarily win but I can't help thinking some people on the left are turning this into a referendum on DC and non eu matters. I know you were calling 60 plus on remain but I think you're being a tad optimistic there. We will have a fair idea even before the polls close with the private exit polls being conducted.

Did I say 60+? Yes, I agree then I was being overly optimistic - I think it will be closer than that.

The numbers of young people who have failed to register will narrow the gap too, given their higher than average propensity to favour staying in.