EU referendum

[Chippy_boy]

The exports issue will potentially cost jobs but if for example we start importing cheaper, lower standard hoods that are currently under tariffs this could lead to further job losses such as have happened in the steel industry. Even today with a protected market, UK companies are using cheaper labour and pushing down prices, when opened up to the full competition of massively cheaper markets in Asia this will really push down wages , salaries etc. This is what some of the Brexit leaders are hoping to profit from cheaper labour, fewer rights etc.

Yep. It's not difficult to spot that the Brexit supporters in the Tory party are in the main, the more right wing members. It's why the penny has dropped with Corbyn and he's suddenly realised what a fuck up Brexit would be for his soclalist agenda.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

But the lovely Tories will throw loads of the cash they've saved at the NHS and Schools and whatnot surely?

Spot on Stonerblue! The percentage of GDP spent on the Health Service has gone down 2% in recent years. I don't expect schools to have been done better.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

Want to fight austerity? Then we have to leave the EU

 

[FanchesterCity]

You know... I'm having a melancholy moment.

I've worked all over Europe doing business with many EU companies. I've always been welcomed and met with nothing but professionalism - 'even' in the much derided Greece.
I've discovered a lot more in common with those people than any differences. Shared beers, meals, sport, jokes, family chat. I've seen a lot more British colleagues make a fool of themselves being drunk or turning up late for meetings etc. We've all felt huge waves of sympathy witnessing terrorism in France and Spain etc, and we've had their sympathy with our own terrorist attacks. Now we're about to share the European Championships with them, and for the large part, share beers once again and cheer on our respective teams...

But no, we can't manage to work in the EU because they're all intolerably corrupt and with less of a world view than us, and far more likely to make strategic business errors than us, the self appointed experts.
I support a club transformed by foreigners who've brought business acumen (and yes, finance) to our shores.

But no - to hell with them all - we don't need them, or want them, and don''t even like them in some cases. That's the way to do great business in the modern world isn't it?

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

That's the way to do great business in the modern world isn't it?

Dunno...ask a British Steel worker

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

What's your point Kevin? Seriously, what is it you want?

You, me, my cat and goldfish can understand that if we have no trade deal with the EU (or a deal with tariffs) then it will not be good for trade and that's not good for our economy. What more "information" do you want.

If you want to know what the US's sales into the EU *would have been* had they been part of the EU, I can't help with that, can I.

Thanks.

So that's right if we are outside the eu we can trade with the eu without a trade agreement

The eu has no trade agreements in existence with countries outside the eu which supports your argument that we would have massive tariffs or import levies severely damaging the uk economy or the years to negotiate our own trade agreement when outside which remainders say we need.

you are just guessing then.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Just tell me , or your pal monkfish, (or are you the same person), what you base your prophecies of doom on?

We have been in the eu 40 years there must be a trade agreement that exists between the eu and countries outside the eu zone. There are examples are there not of how the USA, China, Japan etc are treated regarding import tariffs and duties etc when dealing with the eu.

You must have some examples to support what you say what will happen to our trading relationship with the eu. You aren t just making it up and guessing are you?

I just re-read this and laughed out loud. We have every reputable independent (and not independent for that matter) body from the Institute for Fiscal Studies to the TUC, from the WTO to the IMF, from IBM to the National Institute of Economic and Social Research. The Treasury, the US President, every European leader, Unison, the NUS, Bill Gates, Richard Branson, NHS leaders. The list of people who say leaving would be bad for our economy is almost endless. 81% of small businesses. 92% of large businesses. Stephen fucking Hawking FFS.

And you say "you aren't just making it up and guessing are you". PMSL honestly.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Just tell me , or your pal monkfish, (or are you the same person), what you base your prophecies of doom on?

We have been in the eu 40 years there must be a trade agreement that exists between the eu and countries outside the eu zone. There are examples are there not of how the USA, China, Japan etc are treated regarding import tariffs and duties etc when dealing with the eu.

You must have some examples to support what you say what will happen to our trading relationship with the eu. You aren t just making it up and guessing are you?

The tariffs (TARIC) are very complicated and specific to specific categories, cub-categories and volumes of goods. So there is no '3%' flat rate type affair. I'm trying to get some example figures right now - for something like a TV - at least we can all relate to that....

 

[DiscoSteve]

You know... I'm having a melancholy moment.

I've worked all over Europe doing business with many EU companies. I've always been welcomed and met with nothing but professionalism - 'even' in the much derided Greece.
I've discovered a lot more in common with those people than any differences. Shared beers, meals, sport, jokes, family chat. I've seen a lot more British colleagues make a fool of themselves being drunk or turning up late for meetings etc. We've all felt huge waves of sympathy witnessing terrorism in France and Spain etc, and we've had their sympathy with our own terrorist attacks. Now we're about to share the European Championships with them, and for the large part, share beers once again and cheer on our respective teams...

But no, we can't manage to work in the EU because they're all intolerably corrupt and with less of a world view than us, and far more likely to make strategic business errors than us, the self appointed experts.
I support a club transformed by foreigners who've brought business acumen (and yes, finance) to our shores.

But no - to hell with them all - we don't need them, or want them, and don''t even like them in some cases. That's the way to do great business in the modern world isn't it?

point entirely missed - no one is saying trade will stop, no one is saying the people are corrupt - what is being said is the problems are with the EU machinery itself - Brussels, Strasbourg etc and thats what we want to play no further part in

 

[Pino]

http://www.mauldineconomics.com/edi...gger-threat-to-the-european-union-than-brexit

Two polls were recently released that call the European Union in question.

A poll in Italy reported that the Five Star Movement (a populist political party that wants to hold a referendum on whether Italy should remain in the European Union) was the most popular political party in the country ahead of local elections scheduled for next month.

On the same day, British researchers who surveyed nine EU countries reported that 45 percent of respondents believed that their country should hold a referendum on whether to remain in the EU.

48% of Italians want to leave the EU
Reuters tried to explain that political scandals, which have undermined public confidence in current Prime Minister Matteo Renzi’s Democratic Party, affected the poll numbers. But this is Italy we’re talking about, the same country that brought us Silvio Berlusconi.

The country is no stranger to political scandals. A few instances of corruption would not be enough to make an anti-establishment party like the Five Star Movement as popular as it has apparently become.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Thanks.

So that's right if we are outside the eu we can trade with the eu without a trade agreement

Well no shit Sherlock. What's your point?

The eu has no trade agreements in existence with countries outside the eu which supports your argument that we would have massive tariffs or import levies severely damaging the uk economy or the years to negotiate our own trade agreement when outside which remainders say we need.

you are just guessing then.

Is that your best shot? To claim that the Inners are guessing when they say trade tariffs are bad for trade? Good grief.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

The tariffs (TARIC) are very complicated and specific to specific categories, cub-categories and volumes of goods. So there is no '3%' flat rate type affair. I'm trying to get some example figures right now - for something like a TV - at least we can all relate to that....

Thank you. I am happy to listen to reason . If it's right I may be persuaded. It's an important point. One i dont understand because I own a business and we sell in Europe and outside and we don't apply tariffs or worry about trade agreements when we sell to Mexico or Spain. So I am genuinely confused.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Thanks.

So that's right if we are outside the eu we can trade with the eu without a trade agreement

The eu has no trade agreements in existence with countries outside the eu which supports your argument that we would have massive tariffs or import levies severely damaging the uk economy or the years to negotiate our own trade agreement when outside which remainders say we need.

you are just guessing then.

They DO have trade deals with the EU, as we will have to also. It's the terms of those deals that are more favourable to those inside it than to those outside it. Of those outside it, the deals are unique to each country and product based on countless other factors - its why they take so long to develop. We aren't talking about negotiating 2% or 4%, it's incredibly complicated. A nation shipping loads of farm machinery to the EU is going to negotiate a deal for that type of equipment whilst someone shipping bananas in exchange for tomatoes is going to negotiate another deal.
But again, the whole premise of the EU is that those within it all share the same deals - which should be beneficial, and we benefit from collective bargaining.
Those not in favour of the EU might argue we could conduct better deals ourselves - but then whoever supplies us with cheaper goods is going to upset the much larger market (the EU) - so it's very risky to cut a deal with the UK that's better than the EU deal. Not impossible though - just politically difficult.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Dunno...ask a British Steel worker

With that sort of thinking we could leave and subsidise all our own industries and ban BMW's and go back to driving Austin Allegro's. Or we could just accept the reality of modern global trading where we are much better in a block i.e. europe. Than trying to pretend to be imune to globaisation and go it alone.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The tariffs (TARIC) are very complicated and specific to specific categories, cub-categories and volumes of goods. So there is no '3%' flat rate type affair. I'm trying to get some example figures right now - for something like a TV - at least we can all relate to that....

Wasting your time mate. It could be 216% and still wouldn't accept it was bad for trade. He can't, because accepting that, weakens his argument.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Well no shit Sherlock. What's your point?



Is that your best shot? To claim that the Inners are guessing when they say trade tariffs are bad for trade? Good grief.

See my response to franchester he seems to understand it rather than just throw insults and say Stephen Hawkins says it's ok so then....

I am in business and trade globally and seriously may be arrested as I have never looked at a fooking trading agreement once.

I await some sensible debate with some substance.

Go rant at some one else.

 

[blueish swede]

I've just imported a replacement electronics board for a piece of test equipment we have from the US. I ordered it on Friday. It came UPS Air and arrived in Sweden on Monday. The board cost $100. The import duty and fees was $55 dollars. It cleared customs yesterday and arrived at 7pm last night. If I could have sourced it in the EU it would have been replaced and the equipment working again by 9 am Monday. 2 days lost on that machine.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Dunno...ask a British Steel worker

Funny you should bring them up. The EU was in favour of penal tariffs on cheap Chinese steel imports, in an effort to protect European steel businesses. But the deal was quashed, because the UK veto'd it. Yes, the UK.

If we gave more power to Europe, our steel industry would have been protected. You could not make it up.

 

[Malty]

The EU is a broken system. Whatever the Great British Public vote remember that the EU is going down the toilet whether you like it or not.

We need to leave this sinking ship, be a market leader in the World for a change. Just like the U.S would do in this Situation as a World Power (which is what Britain is supposed to be). Tell other nations to do one. We are too nice (to our detriment but we can no longer afford to be when it is our own families suffering), and scared about change. What is the worse that could happen? surely won't be much worse then now..

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

Funny you should bring them up. The EU was in favour of penal tariffs on cheap Chinese steel imports, in an effort to protect European steel businesses. But the deal was quashed, because the UK veto'd it. Yes, the UK.

If we gave more power to Europe, our steel industry would have been protected. You could not make it up.

Ah but what you've failed to mention is that it is bureaucratic EU law which is preventing our government to bail the industry out

Margrethe Vestager (EU Commisioner) summed up the rules earlier this year.

She said: "EU countries and the Commission have put in place strict safeguards against state aid to rescue and restructure steel companies in difficulty."