EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
The usual strawman attack based upon complete fallacies once more.

Literally nothing you've just written is founded in reality.

We will have control over all of those things following an out vote, and when I say 'we' I mean the British state and the British electorate.

With all due respect mate, you're on the other side of the world, I'd appreciate it if you eased off with the entirely baseless arguments - especially when, truth be told, you have no real vested interest in the future of this country.

Leaving the EU doesn't mean completely isolating ourselves from the rest of the world, this is just a continued routine you fall back on to wildly misrepresent what a post EU membership Britain would equate to, it's total nonsense and it's deliberately calculated nonsense which is completely transparent in its motives.

Your methods are more refined than Pam and co, but it's all much of a muchness. Throw enough mud around and hope that some of it sticks. Rather obvious.

Why didn't you just outright state that we'd starve and then be invaded by Russia should we leave the EU? Go the whole hog?

This is a country that has a highly successful agricultural industry, so much so that we actually export £12bn worth of food abroad annually. A country that is a prominent member of NATO, has one of the world's biggest defence budgets and is a nuclear power with a second strike capability.

Would you care to justify, in-depth and individually one by one, how we wouldn't have control over each one of those non-points you've just raised following a leave vote? Likewise would you care to justify your continued, and relentless, fallacious arguments against Britain leaving the EU, please?

Answers on a postcard. Thanks.
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Firstly I think you are misinterpreting not sure if deliberate or not but to be clear I am not saying these things cease to flow if we leave the EU I am saying that in these things the world is so interdependent that sovereignty really doesn't exist anymore, it is a myth of history .

Our economy , our currency , our infrastructure , the basics of life depend on a global economy and sovereignty is now almost global, markets , companies , technologies, organisations, even trade mean sovereignty is a figment of nostalgia and not a hard reality.

So to answer your questions :

Defence you have answered , we have sovereignty only on part of NATO and subject to the technology, equipment that comes from the rest of the world. You yourself highlight this lack of sovereignty and the need for NATO. We have a threat to defend ourself but faced with attack from a true global power we would not have true sovereignty - mutually assured destruction is not being sovereign

For Energy we depend on raw materials from overseas and basic commodities o provide hear and power, these are distributed by foreign owned companies , using parts from across the globe and infrastructure.

For our whole economy we depend on digital platforms on foreign built and designed computers, software, infrastructure , going through overseas servers on servers, mobiles , laptops , screens built and designed elsewhere.

For taxation we depend on global companies with global infrastructures allocating profit to us and we depend on the OECD to try and address it.

for food , what would happen if we closed the gate tomorrow, how many people would go hungry, would what we export truly make up for what we import?

Let a not forget our boats, transport, cars, planes, parts and how we get around how much of that is sovereign and controlled in the UK.

How long would our banking system out Currency last on its own.

The answer is we live in the west in an utterly interdependent world, the sovereignty we give up to Europe is no more than the sovereignty we have given up to big business, to resource firms, to NATO, to global banking and finance system, to our very digital infrastructures.

The sooner people accept what the world is today and what the trends are, how things will continue to change and change faster the better. For me Brexit is a reaction to a world that is fundamentally and forever changed in terms of globalisation and on an inevitable path that can't be slowed . But it is a reaction that will change nothing, at beats we lose a few things we gain a few things , at worst a we hurt a lot of people economically and weaken our position on the world and for what. A nostalgic look at the past to discover that it doesn't exist anymore .

So you can triumphantly espouse that the UK is literally sovereign and literally self sufficient but I struggle to see any case this is true, let alone in literally everything as you presume. Don't get me wrong everyone else in the west is In The same boat and due to debt and trade increasingly the Chinese too.

But let's not pretend tomorrow with a Brexit vote anything will really change and that the world will ever go back to what it once was
 
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God you talk some shite, and write a f*cking essay to do it, thank f*ck you toddled off down under so we dont have to share the same country with the likes of you.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Maybe so Tony but other countries see things slightly differently to us. For example, the Polish pay for a good education for their people and then many piss off to England that supports our economy and public services. (Admittedly a lot have returned to Poland with work experience).

The Polish might be happy for us to be outside the EU that could make it easier for them to retain their talented people.
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Interesting one :-)
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Debate properly or piss off. The only coherent poster on the Remain side is EB2. The rest of you have just posted slogans and cut-and-paste jobs or just offered insults. And yesterday, when you accused me of lying about that poster doing just that, I know exactly where he copied and pasted it from.
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I never accused you of lying about anything. You must be confusing me with someone else.

Anyways, regarding debating properly, you said:

Prestwich_Blue said:
The UK budget deficit is around 5% of GDP currently. The EU's rules specify a maximum of 3%. When the EU starts to consolidate fiscal and monetary policy in the next two years we'll have no choice but to reduce to that level. That will involve far worse austerity than we've seen so far and Osborne knows that. Austerity, as we already know, acts as a drag on growth. So Osborne's rather optimistic projections based on staying in are nonsense. But by the time we realise that, it'll be too late.
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We are already committed to eliminating the deficit by 2020, whether in or out of the EU. That's already factored into the plan, based on the economy growing.

If we were to leave the EU, do you think we'd suddenly have a big increase in growth? No, of course we fucking wouldn't, quite the opposite. Growth would slow or stop and quite possibly we'd go into recession. That would mean even deeper austerity, and for even longer.

In other words, you were talking utter shite, and not for the first time on this thread. I expected better from you, I really did.
 
steviemc said:
We'd need to fulfill the relevant criteria, which includes adopting EU regulations in all areas. Although we already do this, a return would take time due the application and acceptance process. Anything needing approval within the EU is very slow moving due to the creaking nature of the over-complex system. It's unlikely we'd be refused, however upon rejoining we would be required to adopt the Euro (as far as I'm aware).
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Maybe the Euro is inevitable if the remains win. All interesting shtough.
 
blueonblue said:
God you talk some shite, and write a f*cking essay to do it, thank f*ck you toddled off down under so we dont have to share the same country with the likes of you.
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You can't argue with facts and reality as usual you can only ever fall back on smug self congratulatory insults. Which says a lot for how much faith you have in your own views .
I was asked to reply - I thought it was all fairly obvious but I did.

That almost sounds like go back to where you came from
 
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Prestwich_Blue said:
Debate properly or piss off. The only coherent poster on the Remain side is EB2. The rest of you have just posted slogans and cut-and-paste jobs or just offered insults. And yesterday, when you accused me of lying about that poster doing just that, I know exactly where he copied and pasted it from.
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If those cut and paste jobs are backing up actual facts whats the problem with it? I gave up long ago trying to actually debate on here as its like talking to a brick wall in most cases so I post actual factual data and let people decide.
 
The faith I have in my own views will be expressed tomorrow in the ballot box, and unlike you I get to live with the result in the fifth largest economy in the world, not some poor little helpless shit hole the likes of you want to portray the UK as.
 
Do we know if the result will be announced with any kind of breakdown of which areas voted which way? I hope not, it would be very divisive.
 
blueonblue said:
The faith I have in my own views will be expressed tomorrow in the ballot box, and unlike you I get to live with the result in the fifth largest economy in the world, not some poor little helpless shit hole the likes of you want to portray the UK as.
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I have never said and never would say the uk is a shit home - what a stupid thing to say and I do t think anyone here thinks that and if they did why would they care about the vote.

Britain is a powerful western nation utterly connected to and interdependent with both Europe and the world and as a constructive voice in that world it can contribute to and gain a lot. But it us utterly interdependent and any idea of sone sole control of destiny is imaginary at best deliberate blindness at worst.

Putting your fingers in you ears, throwing out insults and running to the ballot box is not faith
 
masterwig said:
Do we know if the result will be announced with any kind of breakdown of which areas voted which way? I hope not, it would be very divisive.
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It certainly will be for England, Wales, n Ireland and Scotland and I would assume with some regionality in england
 
grunge said:
If those cut and paste jobs are backing up actual facts whats the problem with it? I gave up long ago trying to actually debate on here as its like talking to a brick wall in most cases so I post actual factual data and let people decide.
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Except they don't. They aren't facts, they're predictions.
 
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